Daylight Savings 2007 - computer related problems

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
I work in the IT field. We are currently working with our customers to rectify as many potential problems with this change as we can.

This year, DLS begins on the second Sunday of March and ends on the first Sunday of November.

It will affect many computers and other electronic devices that adjust to the offset for DLS.

The problem spans many operatiing systems. Some are affected more than others. None seem immune.

The most affected seem to be scheduling programs such as calanders.

I suggest that anyone that uses an electronic calander print out a hard copy of it for the month of March.

For most it will be a nonevent. For some an aggrevation. For a few that may rely on it for timely delivery of medication it could be critical.

[Matt Meiser]

I just wrote a document on this for the other engineers where I work. My company does a lot of control systems for water and wastewater plants. For us, it seems like the biggest problem will be wrong clocks and historical data with the wrong timestamp--assuming the machines aren't patched. Many products internally use UTC time so the only problem will be the incorrect display of the historical data. Many of the software vendors we use are just testing their products last week and this week with any potential patches to come "soon". Most PC-based products are fixed by updating the operating system. The more complex problems are embedded systems. For example, no one here is sure how to update the controls on our office's backup generator. For that it will be a minor inconvenience as it just means the logged data will be off by an hour and the generator will exercise on Tuesdays at 1PM instead of 12PM for a few weeks. More inconvenient is the computer which runs the building's HVAC system. No one wants to come in to find the building still cold!

From my research, If you are running Windows XP or 2003 there is a patch from Microsoft (which is probably already installed if you have automatic updates turned on.) Windows 2000 requires manual registry updates. Earlier versions of Windows--you are on your own. Devices with embedded clocks--you should contact the manufacturer.

Here is a link for Microsoft's DST support center:
http://support.microsoft.com/gp/cp_dst

[Joe Pelonio]

I still use one computer with Windows 98, because the design program on it cost $10,000 and won't run on XP. None of the programs I use on it care about date and time, so would it just be a matter of manually updating the time when it changes?

[Jim DeLaney]

Hasn't Microsoft distributed a Windows XP update to correct the 'problem'?

Linux and Unix, etc. users may still suffer, though...

[jeremy levine]

I still use one computer with Windows 98, because the design program on it cost $10,000 and won't run on XP. None of the programs I use on it care about date and time, so would it just be a matter of manually updating the time when it changes?
Your fine leaving it wrong or set it by hand.

[jeremy levine]

Hasn't Microsoft distributed a Windows XP update to correct the 'problem'?

Linux and Unix, etc. users may still suffer, though...
Red Hat ( Fedora should check the web) has patches already out.
Solaris is set and I am sure most Unix systems will be fine.

[Lee DeRaud]

Hasn't Microsoft distributed a Windows XP update to correct the 'problem'?Yup, about two weeks ago IIRC.

[Matt Meiser]

None of the programs I use on it care about date and time, so would it just be a matter of manually updating the time when it changes?

You can either not worry about the time being wrong, or turn off the automatic DST adjustment and just update your clock manually.

[Curt Harms]

You can either not worry about the time being wrong, or turn off the automatic DST adjustment and just update your clock manually.

This would be a pain for somebody who manages a few hundred PC's though

[Jim Becker]

This would be a pain for somebody who manages a few hundred PC's though
True, but the question from Joe P. was about one copy of Win98 that's dedicated to a very expensive piece of software. (And hopefully not connected to the 'net... ;) )

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
Yes - there are patches.
Unfortunatly, we're finding that most of them are poorly written.
Even the ones that work, don't take into account changes made by other systems.
Microsoft's Vista is an example.
It's patched by default.
However, if someone schedules an appointment in Microsoft Exchange using Vista, then the patch is applied to the Exchange, the patch on the Exchange messes up the time.

The other real bugger that's creeping in is Java.
Java has a patch, but,,, few of the machines running it have the patch installed. For a 50 to 100 user network, that means a lot of legwork for someone to go around and patch each machine.
Legwork = $$$ when an outfit like the one I work for is called in to patch the machines.
@ $80.00 an hour for a tech to sit in front of a machine and load patches - it adds up quick.

For standalone or home computers or any flavor of Windows from 95 through XP - google "Tzedit".
Follow the links and download it then extract it. It's a graphic inerface that allows you to manually change the DST settings.

[Jason Roehl]

...and any savings we see from the extended time on DST quickly goes in the pockets of the IT workers around the country...:rolleyes:

[Matt Meiser]

...and any savings we see from the extended time on DST quickly goes in the pockets of the IT workers around the country...:rolleyes:

Nope, most of them are expected to work overtime for free.

[Mark Rios]

Incidently, Mac owners can just (unless you keep your computer set to automatically update) go up to the Apple menu in the upper left hand corner, drop down the menu and choose the second item, "Software Update". A couple of minutes (waiting for the download...you don't have to DO anything) and you're done. Oh wait...you'll have to enter your password too (if you have one set. Otherwise, just take another sip of coffee).


;)





But here's a question for you IT folks.........

Are the people in Arizona and Hawaii going to blow up when this new DSL time kicks in and they don't change their time? :D Or, for Vista users in AZ and HA...."Do you want to set DSL time and fit in with all the other states or do you want to continue to be the bane and embarrasment of the whole country.....Cancel or Allow?" :D :D :D

[Brett Baldwin]

Mark, we'll all just laugh and shake our heads knowingly when the rest of you scurry around to accommodate a measure that should have ended at least 40 years ago. I'm sure the government will get around to repealing DST as soon as they get their collective backsides off that $10,000 toilet seat.;) :D

[Bjorn Andersen]

Hello,
I work in the IT field. We are currently working with our customers to rectify as many potential problems with this change as we can.

This year, DLS begins on the second Sunday of March and ends on the first Sunday of November.

It will affect many computers and other electronic devices that adjust to the offset for DLS.

The problem spans many operatiing systems. Some are affected more than others. None seem immune.

The most affected seem to be scheduling programs such as calanders.

I suggest that anyone that uses an electronic calander print out a hard copy of it for the month of March.

For most it will be a nonevent. For some an aggrevation. For a few that may rely on it for timely delivery of medication it could be critical.

Hmmm.. I am not a computer expert, but in windows on MY comps, I can click control panel, date&time, and tick of a box called "adjust clock automatically for daylight saving". None of the computers I run (4-5 of them) has any problems with that, and all of them had this as default when I first set them up. Perhaps this is different "over there"?

[Dave Richards]

Hmmm.. I am not a computer expert, but in windows on MY comps, I can click control panel, date&time, and tick of a box called "adjust clock automatically for daylight saving". None of the computers I run (4-5 of them) has any problems with that, and all of them had this as default when I first set them up. Perhaps this is different "over there"?

Bjorn, the adjustment was done based on a different calculation of when DST starts (or is it ends, I'm confused. ;)) It has been changed in the US at least which is the reason for the required software update. Most computers don't update for DST from a central time server. Some of ours at work do but that's a different story.. ;)

Ha det.

[Bjorn Andersen]

Bjorn, the adjustment was done based on a different calculation of when DST starts (or is it ends, I'm confused. ;)) It has been changed in the US at least which is the reason for the required software update. Most computers don't update for DST from a central time server. Some of ours at work do but that's a different story.. ;)

Ha det.

Aha.. you americans do strange stuff ...:D

Thanks for explaining, Dave, and "ha en god dag, lille petter edderkopp" :cool:

[Dave Richards]

Aha.. you americans do strange stuff ...:D

Thanks for explaining, Dave, and "ha en god dag, lille petter edderkopp" :cool:

Og til De også. Probably a bad translation. ;)

[Randal Stevenson]

I just use NTP. There is freeware available that you can then sync off your clock that gets sync'd out on the web.

[Dennis Peacock]

This would be a pain for somebody who manages a few hundred PC's though

How about those of us who manage over 3,000 serious Unix/Linux servers? :rolleyes: :D

[Al Willits]

"""""""
...and any savings we see from the extended time on DST quickly goes in the pockets of the IT workers around the country...:rolleyes:
"""""""

Not sure where your at, but all our comps get updated over the net, they send out a update and the comp does it when you log on.
Prob several thousand comps on this companies net.

Al

[jeremy levine]

How about those of us who manage over 3,000 serious Unix/Linux servers? :rolleyes: :D

UTC ! all the way

[jeremy levine]

"""""""
...and any savings we see from the extended time on DST quickly goes in the pockets of the IT workers around the country...:rolleyes:
"""""""

Not sure where your at, but all our comps get updated over the net, they send out a update and the comp does it when you log on.
Prob several thousand comps on this companies net.

Al The time data that is sent over the net is generally seconds ( really out to milliseconds) since January 1 1970 (Greenwhich Mean Time ). Your local machine has a time zone setting which included a "yes" day light savings time or "no" day light savings time aspect.

This is the issue, all of use can get the proper "time" in Greenwich Mean Time ( now called UTC) from the time data (number of seconds since January 1 1970.).
This calculation never involves daylight saving time. The problem is you tell you system get the time from some server , it does but when it shows it to you in your local timezone it needs to know how much to change it for daylight savings and when ( what day to start using it ) this is why systems need to be updated.