Shaper Which One?

[Eric Williams]

Looking to by a shaper, I only have regular house wattage what do you guys recommend?

[Roy McQuay]

I have the Jet and it runs on 110. It takes 1/2" and 3/4" shaper bits and also includes a chuck for 1/2" shank router bits. It has 2 speeds as well as forward and reverse. In 4 years I have had no problems. I have never used any other shapers.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a 3HP shaper, General International model 40-250 shaper. It comes with a 1/2" and 3/4" spindle, a 1/4" and 1/2" router bit collet. I also purchased the 1 1/4" spindle for it.

The shaper is a 240 volt single phase unit, and I use it with both carbide and insert HSS knife cutters.

It works very well, two speeds 8,000/10,000RPM and of course has a reversing switch.

It's latest project was 960 feet of tongue and groove work.

Regards, Rod.

[Tom Jones III]

I just recently got the steel city shaper. It is 3 HP, 240V. The extension table is on the front which should make it much better for raised panel doors. It comes with 3/4" and 1" spindles and 1/4" and 1/2" router collets. I think the larger spindle sizes will be much more useful than the 1/2" spindle. The fence is the best one that I've seen short of an exotic high priced production machine.

The best part is that at around $1100 the Steel City shaper is half the price of the delta and not much more than the little jet. In fact, what finally pushed me into the purchase is that when I realized that after spending the same amount of money to get the ultimate router table setup then it would still not be as good as the shaper.

[Stan Welborn]

It comes with 3/4" and 1" spindles and 1/4" and 1/2" router collets.

Tom,
What has been your (or others) experience with the smaller bits? Any issues with the (relatively slower) speed of the shaper when using these smaller bits?

[Tom Jones III]

I have not had it long enough to be certain. Right now I have a 1.125" bullnose cutter in the shaper so that I can cut some stair treads. As soon as I have all the bullnose cut then I plan on testing some smaller bits. Before buying the shaper I turned my router down to 10,000 rpm and tested a couple smaller router bits in walnut. The feed rate needed to be slower but the cut quality was fine.

When I bought the shaper, I had assumed that I was going to keep the router table for use with smaller bits. Now that I have used the shaper I am reconsidering that assumption. I do a lot of stopped dado cuts using a 1/4" straight bit. When I'm done with the bullnose I plan on giving this a try in the shaper. This is about the worst case test I can think of.

I had also planned on keeping the router table so that I could have 2 machines setup simultaneously, ex. when doing raised panel doors you need 3 bits to be setup, an ideal situation would have 3 machines where you never take the bits out or change the setup. At this point I'm not certain if I want to free up shop space or keep the extra machine.

[Wilbur Pan]

Looking to by a shaper, I only have regular house wattage what do you guys recommend?
I don't know anything about shapers, but if by "regular house wattage" you mean 110-120V service and no 220-240V, it is quite easy to add 240V service to your workshop. All you need is to have some empty bays in your main circuit breaker, and if you don't, you could always add on a subpanel.

Besides, with the big motors that shapers come with, you should have a 240V line.

[Stan Welborn]

I do a lot of stopped dado cuts using a 1/4" straight bit. When I'm done with the bullnose I plan on giving this a try in the shaper. This is about the worst case test I can think of.
Yep. I'd be REAL interested to hear the results.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I've used router bits in the 3/8" diameter range at 10,000 RPM in my shaper. While not ideal, the results were certainly acceptable. I use router bits occasionally, however use shaper cutters whenever possible.

Of course compared to a shaper cutter, I've found that even large routers bits are inferior in cut quality to a shaper cutter.

If you want anextraordinary cut quality in solid wood, use HSS knives in a cutter head. There's no substitute for a razor sharp tool, correct cutting geometry, and the power required to get the job done in one pass.

You will be very pleased with a 3HP or larger shaper, anything smaller will not be capable of running full size cutters. Also, a 1 1/4" spindle will allow you purchase used cutters from shops, as that is the most common spindle size.

I looked at routers and tables, and came to the conclusion that for the amount of money I would spend on a good table and router that I would purchase a shaper instead. I haven't regretted it.

Regards, Rod.

[Joe Chritz]

I have the grizzly 3 HP. Nice unit, plenty of power and a large table. I just finished a boat load of cabinet doors on it.

My dad has the jet (1.5 HP I think) and it is a nice machine. Plenty of power, the table is a lot smaller though. I have not tried that one with single pass raised panels. I either need a bigger powerfeed or have to get braver.

A friend has the shopfox (2 HP I think) and he likes it a lot.

I ran several hundred feet through a 1/8 roundover without any problems using a router bit and collet. As mentioned the feed needs to be slower.

My money would go to the 3 HP grizzly but I have heard good things about the general and steel city in the same price range. Mine has a vibration that I think is from the pulleys or belt. I haven't fixed it yet as it isn't a real problem just a tad annoying. The large table will be very useful if you do any 5 piece doors.

Even a small feeder will pay for itself soon. Safer, faster and better results. I can't imagine not having it anymore.

Enjoy

Joe

[John Stevens]

I just recently got the steel city shaper.

Hi, Tom. Have you used the shaper enough to form an opinion about it's dust collection? Is the machine is built to facilitate dust collection, and if so, how? Thanks in advance.

Regards,

John

[John Stevens]

I have the grizzly 3 HP.

Hi, Joe. Same question as for Tom--is your machine built to facilitate dust collection, and if so, how? Thanks in advance.

Regards,

John

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, shapers have a large cast iron or steel housing over the cutter, with a 4" or 5" port at the rear to connect to the dust collector. I use a 5" drop with a reducer to 4" at the shaper. You will need about 500CFM for a shaper.

Almost all of the chips are captured on a shaper.

Note that on a shaper, there isn't any under table dust since the spindle is sealed to the bottom of the table, unlike a router.

A shaper is also much quieter, and has far less vibration than a router.

Regards, Rod

[Tom Jones III]

Ditto what Rod said. On my setup, I have a dust gorilla with 6" ducting reduced to a few feet of 4" flex hose to plug in to the machine. the shaper is at the extreme end of the ducting run. When the fence is setup and the guard over the cutter, there is little space for chips to go, other than into the DC. After running almost 15 stair treads through the shaper, I would say that it is one of the cleanest tools in my shop.

[wayne ateser]

Looking to by a shaper, I only have regular house wattage what do you guys recommend?

Wouldnt a 3 1/2 HP table mounted plunge router do the same for a lot less money? Since the heavy HP routers and the huge variety of 1/2" shank shaping bits for routers have come about, I always thought shapers were more for a production environment.

[Tom Jones III]

Wouldnt a 3 1/2 HP table mounted plunge router do the same for a lot less money? Since the heavy HP routers and the huge variety of 1/2" shank shaping bits for routers have come about, I always thought shapers were more for a production environment.

You are mostly correct, it would do most of the same things but not with as good quality or repeatability and after everything is added up it won't be for a lot less money. Potentially you could spend a lot more on the router table than a shaper!

I've got one of the huge routers mounted in a table but there were a couple things that I just could not solve with the router in a table:
* I wanted a top of the line fence. I could not find anything for sale at any price that comes close to the steel city shaper fence.
* Extremely flat and stable top. I've made a handful of raised panel doors on my router table and the work was "good enough". However, even a very slight deflection in the table top will be shown on the raised panel.

Less important are noise, dust collection (I worked a lot on my router table and DC was pretty good), safety and convenience of bit changes. All of these items can be addressed on the router table for a certain amount of money and effort. IMO none of these issues will ever be as good on a router table after much expense and effort as they are in a normal shaper right out of the box.

[wayne ateser]

You are mostly correct, it would do most of the same things but not with as good quality or repeatability and after everything is added up it won't be for a lot less money. Potentially you could spend a lot more on the router table than a shaper!

I've got one of the huge routers mounted in a table but there were a couple things that I just could not solve with the router in a table:
* I wanted a top of the line fence. I could not find anything for sale at any price that comes close to the steel city shaper fence.
* Extremely flat and stable top. I've made a handful of raised panel doors on my router table and the work was "good enough". However, even a very slight deflection in the table top will be shown on the raised panel.

Less important are noise, dust collection (I worked a lot on my router table and DC was pretty good), safety and convenience of bit changes. All of these items can be addressed on the router table for a certain amount of money and effort. IMO none of these issues will ever be as good on a router table after much expense and effort as they are in a normal shaper right out of the box.
I dont see any of those issues. Make a router table as table saw side extension. Crazy to make raised panels with verticle bit. Use cabinet bit set with 3.5" raised panel bit where panel lays flat. 3 bit matched raised panel set is $25 on sale at Harbor Freight. Fence is adjustable depth and width using T bolts in a slot in table. Height of fence is whatever you want to make it. But a dust collector hood for $5 for router table and very little dust residue, even for MDF.

on amazon 3hp shaper = $1200. A single verticle raised panel bit = $115.

My whole set up with a Hitach 3.5HP table mounted plunge router, 1/2" chuck, 3piece matching rail,stile, raised panel set, cost less then just the shaper raised panel bit.

I dont see it, unless its some production environment and even then you could have 10 router setups vs a single shaper for the same price.
If you can get a used shaper with carbide bits for the same price maybe but otherwise seems like a nutzoid decision

[Dan Forman]

According to what I have read, the a 3 hp router and 3 hp shaper are not nearly equal, with the shaper being much more powerful. It has to do with how the hp is rated.

Dan

[Jay Brewer]

I dont see any of those issues. Make a router table as table saw side extension. Crazy to make raised panels with verticle bit. Use cabinet bit set with 3.5" raised panel bit where panel lays flat. 3 bit matched raised panel set is $25 on sale at Harbor Freight. Fence is adjustable depth and width using T bolts in a slot in table. Height of fence is whatever you want to make it. But a dust collector hood for $5 for router table and very little dust residue, even for MDF.

on amazon 3hp shaper = $1200. A single verticle raised panel bit = $115.

My whole set up with a Hitach 3.5HP table mounted plunge router, 1/2" chuck, 3piece matching rail,stile, raised panel set, cost less then just the shaper raised panel bit.

I dont see it, unless its some production environment and even then you could have 10 router setups vs a single shaper for the same price.
If you can get a used shaper with carbide bits for the same price maybe but otherwise seems like a nutzoid decision

Hi Wayne, its is true that a router table can do most of what a shaper can.I guess you could mount a circular saw upside down to a peice of plywood and call it a table saw thats about the same comparision as the router to a shaper. the shaper does it faster, quieter, with better quality cuts effortlessly all day long, also your router dosent have 1/2 more horsepower than the shaper you are comparing it to, mabey more like half the power of the shaper on a good day, and the Harbor Freight bits pails in comparision to quality shaper tooling, I guess its all about what you want, but I wouldnt call buying a shaper nutzoid, no more that buying any other tool.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, a 3 HP router is aproximately equal to a 1 HP shaper.

When I looked at the router table/shaper comparison it worked out like this (all figures in Canadian dollars)

3 1/2 HP router $350

Jessem Router table $800



3HP Shaper $1,290

A particle board router table is in no way equivalent to a large, flat cast iron table.

The ability to use large cutters (125mm) to cut a profile in a single pass, or the ability to mount a power feeder are features that have to be experienced to be appreciated.

The speed, precision and smoothness of a shaper also are far beyond the capabilities of a router in a table.

In addition, shapers have reversible spindle rotation, which allows you to flip the cutter over so that you are always cutting with the grain, something that's impossible with a router.

Safety is another issue that is often debated, and there certainly are horror stories of shapers taking fingers or hands in accidents. Good setups, proper safety procedures are esential to the safe operation of all machinery.

Shapers normally have less kickback accidents due to better cutting geometry and stability, as well operators normally using proper jigs, hold downs and guards.

Router table accidents are very common, partially, in my opinion because people don't have enough respect for what an upside down blender can do to your fingers. In addition operators often hold work by hand, or attempt to feed it between the bit and the fence. A router bit at 10,000 to 20,000 RPM can make your fingers disappear as fast as a shaper.

Now, this doesn't mean that many people will not be happy with a router/table setup, however claiming that they are equal to a shaper is simply not factual.

Regards, Rod.

[Ben Grunow]

IF you have a shaper with a collet larger than 1/2", can you get a bushing to run router bits in it?

Can you run small bits, like 1/4" straight bit for small dados etc?

[Mike Heidrick]

IF you have a shaper with a collet larger than 1/2", can you get a bushing to run router bits in it?

Can you run small bits, like 1/4" straight bit for small dados etc?

I just bought a 5hp Delta shaper. The first extra spindle I bought was the Delta 43-800 router bit spindle. This is because I do not own any shaper cutters yet. It will work with both 1/4" and 1/2" shaft router bits.

It works with several Heavy Duty Shapers Delta makes including the 43-460, 43-459, 43-455, 43-445 off the top of my head. Price on the router bit spindle alone was almost the price I paid for my Milwaukee 5625 on sale and definately more than my Bosch Colt was - Delta 43-800 Spindles go for $130-$169 new.

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00004Z01W.01._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

The diameter of the bit being spun is a factor considering the shaper only spins at 7000 to 10,000 RPM vs 20,000+ for a router. Small diameter means slower rotation. Some folks have NO issues running router bits in their shaper. I am still in review stages.

[Ken Milhinch]

I am just now cleaning up my router table prior to listing it and most of my eight routers on eBay. I have made the decision to buy a shaper after watching the Jet shop class dvd on shapers. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that a shaper can do it better than a router in a table, and it also has the bonus of being able to run my existing router bits.
I have decided on the Jet shaper, by the way.

[Joe Chritz]

Dust collection is pretty good. I just stuck a 4" hose on the back of the fence as it has an open back. What doesn't get sucked up drops into the cabinet.

Even after milling parts for over 30 doors I haven't had to clean the insides.

The grizzly doesn't have a back on the cabinet which would contain the pieces better. A 1/8 or 1/4 mdf piece and a couple magnets would close it nicely. Haven't gotten that far yet.

Joe

[Tom Jones III]

Yep. I'd be REAL interested to hear the results.

I finally got done with all 18 bullnose pieces on my new shaper last night! I put the router collet in and setup a 1/4" straight router bit. I set it for 3/8" cutting height and set the fence so that it would cut a slot down the middle of a 3/4" piece of red oak. I did not do a side by side comparison but my gut feel was that changing out a shaper cutter and spindle then setting up a router bit in the collet took the same amount of time as on a router table, maybe took a little less time. Setting up the fence precisely took far less time on the shaper than it did on the router table.

I don't know how best to quantify the cut quality or make a comparison about cutting speed. Probably the best thing to say at this point is that I am thinking real hard about giving my router table away to a neighbor. Red oak is not the softest of woods or the easiest cutting, taking a 3/8" tall bite all at once with a 1/4" bit completely submerged in the wood is a pretty big cut. I simply moved slowly and steadily through the shaper, probably the same speed I use when ripping on the TS. There were no chunks taken out, no chattering, nothing much to report other than it worked fine.

A few observations about using both the 1/4" bit and the 1.125 bullnose shaper cutter:
* Setting up the guard and the hold-downs was quick and easy enough that I will probably always use them. The same was not true on my router table and I've never seen a router table with comparable safety.
* The safety guards made it almost impossible to get your fingers into the cutter. Even on the big 1.125" bullnose cutter that was around 2" in diameter.
* It is pleasant to be making some pretty big cuts and the loudest thing is my DC.
* Due to the weight of the shaper I can lean on the shaper for support when I am sliding a large and heavy stair tread. I can also get the hold-downs to push harder on the wood since I can put a little more force on the shaper than I could on the router table.
* Given the ease of setting the hold-downs and the strength of the hold-downs and guards, I don't see how kick back is even possible let alone how it could be dangerous.