OT - Digital Photography

[Julie Wright]

I have been admiring many of the photos that are posted on this site. I was wondering if you all would share your photography knowledge? What type camera, and your setup. Light box etc...
You've seen some of my photos, you know I NEED HELP !!

Thanks for the OT Help.. :) :) :D

[Phil Phelps]

It's Photoshop software. It is the greatest thing since sliced bread. All the photo editing you can think of is there. I have a Nikon Coolpix 2.8 megapixel. Most of my pics are without flash. No need to zoom. No real tricky stuff on the camera is needed. You can edit them all in Photoshop. Now, it ain't cheap. You'll find some competetive prices on line. And, to use it properly takes a bit of instruction. A program is included with the purchase. So, my advise is to go with a medium price camera, and do the real picture work in Photoshop.

[Mike Evertsen]

I use a Kodack 3200 nothing fancy just good pictures I use microsoft picture it soft ware to edit havn't learned how to use the program just enough to get my picutures on-line,,,,if you have a office max nearby they are some good prices thru saturday on cameras,,,,,,,

[Glenn Clabo]

Julie,
Although photography is my second love and I've actually had some experience teaching it...I can't add more than what's out there.

Picking a camera is about like picking a tool. You'll get all kinds of opinions which can start some very heated arguements. (I for the life of me can't understand why anyone would buy anything but Canon equipment.:DBut...) I read lots of photography forums and it can get ugly.

Here's a good place to investigate digital cameras...
http://www.dpreview.com/

Here's one site, rather simplistic, that get's you off to a good start on photographing your work ....
http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/photos.html

Software is a whole other subject. PhotoShop is THE program used by most photgraphers...especially digital. However, it is expensive and not a simple program to learn. You really don't need it to just take snapshots...of shots of your work. Many/most cameras come with programs that work just fine. Save your money until you see what level of work you want to do is my suggestion. Sizing pictures for the posting can be very easy with free programs like...
http://bluefive.pair.com/pixresizer.htm

And our own Jim Becker wrote an article on the subject...
http://www.woodmagazine.com/default.sph/wcontent_user.class?FNC=story1__Acategory2_html___ 7___47___0___453___1

Have fun and keep asking questions if you get confused...which is very easy to do.

[Dave Richards]

Julie, for photos that will only be looked at on a computer screen, you won't need real high resolution. Still, look at cameras in the 3-5 Megapixel range because you'll have the option to do very detailed printed photos if you want.

I would suggest looking for a camera that gives you some sort of manual control. At least exposure compensation. While, as Phil indicated, Photoshop can help you fix a lot of problems with photos, I think it is better to do as much as possible while making the photograph to eliminate problems.

As far as lighting goes, try to set up your lights so as to keep contrast fairly low. Large light sources, boxes, tents, diffusers, etc will help with this. You can make very nice diffusers from PVC pipe, a few elbows and some lightweight white nylon fabric. Tents are good especially for smaller objects and are also easy to make. Your light sources stay on the outside of the tent or diffuser and should be far enough back to illuminate the entire diffuser.

The type of light source you use is not as critical with digital photography as it is with silver-based imaging. Still, avoid mixing light sources. If you want to use quartz lighting (those inexpensive 250 or 500 W lights can be used if you don't mind the heat.) make sure all of it is quartz. Turn off any flourescents and block windows which might allow enough daylight in the cause color balances.

Daylight is mostly blue, quartz and tungsten is orange-ish or reddish and flourescent is yellow-green.

Whatever light source you are using, set the white balance on the camera on a piece of white paper to get the color correction. This means the camera should have a white balance control.

You want to think about backgrounds, too. Do you want to black backgrounds or white? Or do you want to photograph the piece in its setting? The best way to get a black background is to make sure there's no light back there. A white background should be lit independently of the subject. If you are trying to use the same light to light the subject and the backgound, the background cannot be white unless the object is over exposed. (Inverse square law at play here.) This is an area, though, where Photoshop can help a lot but I would suggest you do as much as you can in setting up the photo in the first place.

Finally, use a good tripod. You will find that a tripod will improve your photographs in severalways. First, they'll be sharper because you won't induce camera movent. Secondly, a tripod slows you down a bit and makes you look at what you're photographing. Looking is something many photographers forget to do. You want to avoid odd convergences (the branch growing out of grandma's head is a common example) and shadows falling on a part of the subject that make it difficult to properly read the detail.

Hopefully that will get you started. The best thing you can do is start taking pictures and paying attention to what you get from what you shot. Borrow a camera at first if you can. It's kind of like cooking. You have to just do it.

[Mike Cutler]

Julie. I Use a Nikon Coolpix 5700 with custom made filter and lens adapters. The camera is setup to be completely manual. I tried all the neat auto features and very quickly turned them all off. I never use the digital zoom feature, it just plain doesn't work on any camera I've ever tried. I always use "Spot" or "Center Weighted" focus mode. Informal shots are in done in JPEG Fine and real shots are done in TIFF and Nikon Raw. I almost exclusively use natural lighting ( My favorite is grey overcast early mornings, with rain or fog) or if needed,create my own lighting and almost never use the camera flash. I tend to use a tripod alot with a remote shutter switch due to my preference for lighting.The software I use is Nikon View and iPhoto for importation and sorting, and PhotoShop 7 for imaging and correction. I like the NikonView for sorting because it records my camera settings for each shot automatically. PhotoShop is also available in a "light" version that is around $100.00. Either version of PhotoShop has more features and capabilities than most people will ever need or use. The key to taking good pictures is practice, practice, and more practice. Experiment with lighting and find out what light conditions suit you best. Base your camera purchases on optical quality and ergonomics first,then look at all the features the camera has and how much control you will be able to exercise over each feature. Base your camera zoom decisions on the optical zoom rating only, as of now digital zoom just hasn't evolved enough to be truly usable. There are hundreds of digital photograhy websites and forums available and there are forums exclusively for the use of PhotoShop. I hope I haven't been to long winded here, it's just that digital photography is a big passion of mine.

[Jim Becker]

Julie, if you can get your hands on a copy of the Summer 2002 issue of American Woodturner, the magazine of the American Association of Woodturners (http://www.woodturner.org) , there is a "most-excellent" article on photographing your work by pro-photographer (and turner) John Lucas of Cookeville TN. It includes step by step advice and pictures of the setups as you progress from a "typical" shot to one that looks like it came out of the finest studio. John also works with natural light in this piece like Mike mentioned. This is a must-read article for anyone wanting professional looking results when capturing their projects on...well film or digital ones and zeros!

Personally, I use a Nikon CoolPix 880 (upgrading soon to a 5700 or a D100) and Adobe Photoshop Elements for manipulation. (Great program and very easy to use)

[Paul Kunkel]

Software is a whole other subject. PhotoShop is THE program used by most photgraphers...especially digital. However, it is expensive and not a simple program to learn.
Photoshop Elements is at every Walmart I've been into and at $58 is a steal! For windoz & Mac

[Jason Tuinstra]

Julie,

It seems that we woodworkers should start listing our camera's in our list of power tools. "I have a Delta Unisaw, Leigh D4 Jig, and a Canon S110" etc. :D

Seriously, I love photography a whole lot. Right now I do shoot with a Canon S110 but I'm hoping to upgrade to the Digital Rebel as soon as I can afford to. Even though I can only shoot 2.1 m.p. I have still been able to print some nice 8x10's (printed at Costco).

Photoshop Elements is the software of choice. With it, I've turned some less that adequate shots into salvageable pictures. If you're interested in digital editing, there's a great book out there called, "The Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements." Check it out from your library and you can see how wonderful the world of digital photography can be.

Here's an example of a before and after shot of a piece I built for my church (though strangely it's in my home. hmmmmm...). I blurred the outside edges to call out the piece of furniture, I changed the white balance, and took out some of the crumbs I saw on the floor that my 2 year old added to the mix. I also sharpened it a bit to call out the figure of the wood. Because I didn't use a flash, I shot with a tripod. I did had a light shining from underneath to pop the figure, but it resulted in a nasty shadow. Oh well.

Hope this helps.

Jason

[Tyler Howell]

[Jason, Is that inside or outside the ladies room??

[Jason Tuinstra]

Tyler,

Good call! Remember though, I said "shhhhhh." I could still get in trouble for my little heist :D. (et. all, see woodcentral shop shots for explanation and incrimination)

Jason

[Glenn Clabo]

Software is a whole other subject. PhotoShop is THE program used by most photgraphers...especially digital. However, it is expensive and not a simple program to learn.
Photoshop Elements is at every Walmart I've been into and at $58 is a steal! For windoz & Mac

Paul/Jason,
You're right Photoshop Elements is a great program...and you can try it at the adobe site if you want to...
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopel/main.html

It isn't PhotoShop but some would say it's much better because of the price ($600 vs $60:D) and ease of use. Try it before you buy it after you try the programs that usually come with the camera would be my recommendation.

Jason...I have a D60 which has caused me to park my other EOS bodies. LOML is looking at the Rebel to replace her Elan. We both have a bunch of L lenses from the "old" film days. I have a refig full of film that may never get used.

[Jason Tuinstra]

Glenn,

Let me know how your wife likes the Rebel - that is if she gets it of course :D . I've read a lot of great reviews. It sure would be a nice step up from my s110.

Regarding Elements vs. Photoshop, when I bought the book "The Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements 2," ($24) it came with software that gives you the ability to uses curves, divide pictures into RGB channels, masks, and all sorts of other Photoshop goodies not normally associated with P.E. The book and the software really made Elements even better than I ever knew it to be. The website is http://hiddenelements.com/ The author even has some of included software as free downloads. Check it out. I'd really recommend it for anyone who wants to master P.E. I have no affiliation with the book, I have just really enjoyed it.

Now, back to work...

Jason

[markus shaffer]

Before I started woodworking, I studied and then worked in photography. I spent quite a lot of time playing with all sorts of cameras and still own several. As with power tools, cameras often fall into the "you get what you pay for" catagory. Sometimes, something comes along that isn't priced beyond most people's means and yet is still a good product. I've looked at and shot with many different digital cameras over the past few years and by far the absolute best I've come across is the Canon S400 Digital Elph. Having spent quite alot of time in darkrooms printing both color and black and white, I can say that the prints I have had made from my Canon are pretty amazing compared to traditional prints. Resolution with this camera is good enough for 11x14 prints, but not much bigger. 8x10 prints look great. For the price, I wholly recommend this Canon (coming from a Nikon guy, mind you) over anything out there in the price range. There are two small downsides to this camera which bothered me. One, as with most digital cameras these days, it came with only a 32 megabyte card. I bit the bullet and bought a 1 gig card and have never ran out of room. Second which is very minimal for this type of camera, there isn't a way to alter the power of the flash. I don't think there are any point and shoot style cameras that have this feature, so it's not really a big deal. Anyway, this camera is small, shoots great photos and I think is far superior than anything else on the market in its class.

I also have a Nikon D100 which has just astounded me with it's images compared to 35mm film. If you're in the market to spend that kind of money(about $1500 now I think), definately consider it. It's pricey, and you'll have to buy lenses separately, but you'll probably not ever need more than that if you're thinking of pursuing photography outside of just shooting photos of your woodworking and everyday snapshot photography.

Photoshop is best for editing. It's a pretty big program to navigate, so I'd start with the limited edition like Elements to learn the basics.

Lighting... That's a whole otehr mess altogether. If you're shooting big stuff, Furniture and the such, try to use diffused lighting set off at 45 degree angles from your subject. Small things such as turnings, use small lamps in the same manner. The main idea in the beginning, try to even the lighting out. Try to avoid harsh shadows. You'd be amazed what a white piece of posterboard can do when you bounce light off of it into shadowed areas. Play with it though. Having one light more powerful than another will add depth and make certain aspects look more dramatic. One important thing is to use the menu in your camera to select the type of lighting you're using. Usually the auto setting isn't so great. It would probably be worth your while to check out a couple books on studio lighting to get some ideas here. One thing to try to avoid "almost" always is using direct flash from the camera. Better to use ambiant light and a tripod for the camera.

Wow... I've babbled on for entirely too long here.

-Markus

[Julie Wright]

Thanks Folks for all your Information. I really appreciate it. Can't wait for my camera to get here so I can start working with it.

Thanks again :D :)

[Doug Littlejohn]

Guess I'll have to chime in here as well. I currently use a Olympus C700UZ. It's a really cool camera though only 2 mp, it's 10x optical zoom makes up for it' lower resolution.

I use Photoshop for most serious editing but where I run into the most problmes is with color matching. Getting the right drivers and color scheme from camera to file to software to printer has caused me fits. The colors just always were way off.

I just recently got that part figured out so at least my colors are right and the bizare digital artifacts are now gone.

Glenn - Yes, please let us know what you and your wife think of the Rebel. I have a film Rebel and loved the camera but it's no match for the convinience of digital. But I really need 5-6 mp to get a decent 8x10 (I know, my 2mp will look good, but that little bit of graininess REALLY bothers me) and it would be nice to be able to use the lenses and filters I have for my Rebel. I really don't want to have to buy more 'custom' adaptors, lenses, etc., like I have for my C700.

[John Weber]

Julie,

Call me a throwback, but I'm just not convinced the consumer cameras are a replacement for film. A family member just gave us a stack of professionally developed snap shots on her latest greatest digital camera ($$$). Quality well wasn't that great. Our SLR blows the pictures away.

I do use a Kodak 2MP camera for all my internet/web work and it does a surpurb job, but these are for screen viewing only. The other thing with digital is you need to be diciplined to manage the files.

We shoot a lot of film with a Nikon N80 / Tamron 28-200 Lens, I also have a Nikon SB-28 flash when I need power, and use a 50 mm 1.8 Nikon prime lens on occasion. I also use Kodak Professional Film (Porta or Supra) as I've ran enough film to tell the differences.

My point is you can get a Nikon N80, N75, N65 or Canon package for the price of a better digital camera and get much better photographs. They all have a built in flash and usually come with a 28-80 zoom lens.

It comes down to what do you want to do with your photos.

John

[Tom Hintz]

I have done photography for print magazines for years and have learned the number one mistake "amatuers" make is light, specifically not enough of it. You can get away with a mid to cheap camera if you have a nice light supply. Of course, Photoshop doesn't hurt anything but it only goes so far. there has to be a basic image for even the best software to work properly.
I have a photolight on a boom in the shop that I use sometimes but natural light, indirect whenever possible, still works best.
Tripods! Whenever you can, set the camera to click off automatically on a tripod.
Probably the best teacher is practice and playing with the adjustments. A good book will help but you have to get used to your environment and how the camera acts under those conditions to get the best results.
Now, go take a bunch of pictures, and remember what you were doing so you know what worked and what didn't!

[Ed Falis]

... Can't wait for my camera to get here so I can start working with it....


But you're supposed to tell us what you got. (And remember, no picture, didn't happen).

- Ed

[craig carlson]

Hi,

In regards to Photoshop. Adobe has a program where you can upgrade Photoshop Elements or any other eariler version of Photoshop to the latest full blown version (Photoshop CS) for $160. Beware that the full version is not for the weak of heart or the casual user the learning curve is quite steep (I've been taking classes for two years now and I'm now able to say that I'm an advanced beginner.)

Craig Carlson
Sebastopol, Ca.

[Glenn Clabo]

Hi,

In regards to Photoshop. Adobe has a program where you can upgrade Photoshop Elements or any other eariler version of Photoshop to the latest full blown version (Photoshop CS) for $160. Beware that the full version is not for the weak of heart or the casual user the learning curve is quite steep (I've been taking classes for two years now and I'm now able to say that I'm an advanced beginner.)

Craig Carlson
Sebastopol, Ca.
Hi Craig,
Just so you and others know... This is right from Adobe. Photoshop doesn't have numbers anymore. It's $649.00 to start unless you can get an educational edition. And I agree...Photoshop is one powerful AND complicated program.

"Adobe Photoshop CS Upgrade
To install upgrade successfully, you will need a licensed version of Photoshop 7.0 or earlier on the same platform as this purchase.
NOTE: Upgrade does not apply to Photoshop Elements, Photoshop Album, Photoshop Limited Edition, or PhotoDeluxe licensed users."

[craig carlson]

Hi Glen,
Check out this site

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6770

Evidently this was a promotional for Microtek scanners but any Photoshop Elements serial number works. One person there even called Adobe support and told them that he wasn't a Microtek customer and it still went through. Retouchpro is a great site for photo restoration.

Craig

[John Miliunas]

And from the FWIW Department, if you don't have the big bucks or needs or skills for Photoshop, consider Paint Shop Pro. I'm on version 7, though I understand they're up to 8 now. Simple to use, very intuative and the difference in price between it and PS, you'll have enough cash to keep you in wood for many, many projects! For folks who have used and "grown up" on PS, it's probably like their right hand. I didn't and prefer to spend my "free" time in the shop, not learning yet another piece of software. Plus, if you devote only a fraction of the learning curve time for PS to practicing with your camera, very little more after-the-shot manipulation will be necessary. Play with the camera, lighting and positioning of your subject matter and you may find the very basic software, which comes with your camera, may be sufficient for your needs. This all, of course, is just my humble opinion. I am by no means trying to disuade you from getting the best photo software out there! :cool:

[Julie Wright]

It just got here, I got the Olympus D-560 Zoom.
Gotta go practice..

thanks again for all the information, you all are Great !!

[Tom Hintz]

A couple of folks sent me email asking about flash attachments and reach.
I thought you might like to see a photo I shot a couple of years ago, at night, at about 75 feet with a 35mm (Cannon EOS-1V, Speedlite 550EX).
I had no idea I actually got the shot until the slides came back. I knew the flash went off but things were happening pretty fast at that moment as there was another car out of rteh frame to the right that had also hit the wall and was headed my way.

[John Miliunas]

A couple of folks sent me email asking about flash attachments and reach.


Tom, I think you hit upon one of the major shortcomings of today's digital cams: The flash. Or better versed, the *lack* of it! Oh sure, most have one attached or which "pops up", but the reach of them is miserable, at best. That was one of the pre-requisites for me when I purchased my digital several years ago. It's an Epson 850Z and by today's standards, a real dog, with only 2.1 megapixel resolution. But, besides the built-in flash, it has a hot shoe attachment! When I really need it, I slide the hot shoe pc cord on it, hooked up to my Sunpack 622. With the zoom head attached, I can really get "out there"! :cool:

[craig carlson]

Hi, Just putzing around. Craig

[craig carlson]

Oh my,
I don't think this worked the last time.

[craig carlson]

Did it work this time? CC

[craig carlson]

OK,I guess I'm really a moron, lets try it one last time. CC

[John Miliunas]

Did it work this time? CC

Nope. Craig, if you're trying to attach a pic, make sure you "see" the file name show up in the lower window of the "add attachments" window before you complete it. Also, just post it afterwards. Do NOT try to preview it, as it won't come through. :cool:

EDIT: Guess you figured it out just as I was sending you this note. :cool:

[Julie Wright]

Cool Pic, what did you do to it?


OK,I guess I'm really a moron, lets try it one last time. CC

[craig carlson]

Hi Julie,

It's easy, just start pushing buttons 'til you get the image you want. (filters) this one was done in PS Elements. I don't want to aggrevate anyone by flogging this thread to death but you can do a Google search on Photoshop and find many effects and instructions, it can become quite addicting.

Craig

[Tom Hintz]

John,
I use the flash on digital cameras only out of desparation, or as fill with other lighting. It seems most digitals (so far, I think this is changing fast now) read actual light far better than they predict flash values.

[Steve Rybicki]

Julie,

I use a similar Olympus and it takes some very nice photos. Olympus has a reputation for making a very good camera and they usually rank quite high in the ratings for digital cameras.

As for software, that depends on how much photo manipulation you think you'll be doing. Some very basic programs will do everything the average user will need. You are better off spending more time with your camera, than with your photo software, in my opinion. Using how to effectively use the features of your camera and flashes, will do more for improving your photos. Have fun...

[Julie Wright]

Here are some free online courses that I found

http://learningcenter.netscape.com/sessions/index.jsp



http://209.196.177.41/contents.htm

http://209.196.177.41/00/00-00.htm

This is a link to an online education course (FREE) that has tons on info on digital photography. :)