Issue with my new Starrett square

[Will Yancey]

I recently received a new Starret combo square for my birthday. It's model# C33H-12-4R (forged head and satin chrome finish). Everything looks great except for the finish of the blade. Right out of the box, I noticed that the finish on more than half of the blade is fairly worn. Most of the wear is down the center of the blade, but the areas with graduations are worn as well. Running the head once down the unaffected side put some pretty good scratches in it as well. The main reasons I opted for the more expensive satin chrome finish were the claims of reduced glare and better durability. As it stands now, the shiny wear areas are more distracting than if the blade had no satin finish at all.

Can anyone comment as to whether this kind of wear is to be expected? Am I being too picky? It seems like the finish will be gone fairly quickly once I actually start using this thing. I've tried contacting Starrett by email, but I haven't gotten a reply yet. I am holding off on purchasing any additional blades until I know whether I should opt for the satin chrome finish again.

[glenn bradley]

I'm hoping they will reply soon or you could contact the store that supplied it to look at some others to see if yours just has a problem. Starrett is top quality but everyone has an oops now and then. What you're describing does not sound right at those prices.

[Jim Becker]

Call them on the phone, Will. Many companies are still not setup with the right technology to respond to email as timely as they should. (I'd be very happy to sell it to them...LOL!) So for issues that are somewhat important, you can't beat a phone call.

[Will Yancey]

Call them on the phone, Will. Many companies are still not setup with the right technology to respond to email as timely as they should. (I'd be very happy to sell it to them...LOL!) So for issues that are somewhat important, you can't beat a phone call.

That's kind of what I thought as well. I was just wanting to get an idea of whether this really is a problem before I called.

[Marc Casebolt]

Will,
I think it's a problem. I have two starret squares, and there is no wear or scratches on the rules on either of them. Sounds like a burr where it goes through the head.

Marc

[Reg Mitchell]

Seems to me I read or heard somewhere that Starrett is not made in this country anymore. They too have jumped on the band wagon to cheeper production practises. Most of the machine tools I buy now I get the older stuff.
Reg

[Gary Keedwell]

As a machinist in my former life, I can tell you for sure, that it is not normal and needs to be returned. IMNSHO

Gary K.;)

[Will Yancey]

Will,
I think it's a problem. I have two starret squares, and there is no wear or scratches on the rules on either of them. Sounds like a burr where it goes through the head.

Marc

Thanks Marc and Gary. I'm going to give Starrett a call tomorrow. This is one of those situations where buying in a local store probably would have made things easier.

[Blake Holton]

Bottom line: You're the consumer and you are not satisfied, ergo: Problem.

Never let a manufacturer define quality... the customer defines quality.

Please let us know how Starrett responds to your concerns.

Good luck,

Blake

[Will Yancey]

Seems to me I read or heard somewhere that Starrett is not made in this country anymore. They too have jumped on the band wagon to cheeper production practises. Most of the machine tools I buy now I get the older stuff.
Reg

They may have, but this square was packaged with a card saying that it was made in the USA and was inspected by someone with a name I could pronounce. It would definitely be a shame if Starrett's quality began to suffer.

I'll let ya'll know if Starrett takes care of me.

[Bob Marino]

Will,

All good advice here. To my knowledge, only certain items (calipers) are now made off-shore. I hope it will never be the case that most/all Starrett items are no linger made here...I hope!

Bob

[John Schreiber]

I consider names (and prices) like Starrett to mean that there is no compromise on quality. If the product is anything less than perfect, I think they will want to make it right for you.

In the recent "my favorite tool" thread. I think there were more mentions of the Starrett square than anything else.

I want one. When I do spring for it, I want it just right.

[Jeff Craven]

Seems to me I read or heard somewhere that Starrett is not made in this country anymore. They too have jumped on the band wagon to cheeper production practises. Most of the machine tools I buy now I get the older stuff.
RegStarrett was recently featured on Travel Channel's show called 'Made in America' :)

Their main factory is in Athol, Massachusetts, where about half of their employees work. They do have a couple overseas facilities in Scotland, Brazil & China, but most of their manufacturing is in the U.S.A.
http://www.starrett.com/pages/62_manufacturing_facilities_worldwide.cfm

[Will Yancey]

UPDATE:

Well, I've spent the last hour bouncing between Home Depot and Starrett trying to resolve the issue. The problem is this:

The square was purchased in December by my girlfriend as a birthday gift for me in February (she was doing Christmas shopping). Since she doesn't know a combination square from a shovel, she didn't identify it as being defective and waited until my birthday to give it to me.

So, I called Starrett first. They agreed that the square is defective, but said that it should be returned to Home Depot. So, I called Home Depot. They informed me within 30 seconds that, since the defect wasn't reported within three days of receiving the shipment, I was completely out of luck. So, again I called Starrett (who were sympathetic to my problem and seemed to be doing their best to help me). Starrett stated that, as a distributor of their tools, Home Depot should still honor my return. Unfortunately, Starrett doens't take direct returns and only does repairs. I was told that, if Home Depot doesn't come through, they will either try to contact Home Depot's representative from their side or I can try to work something out with the repair shop.

So, I called Home Depot for the last time, and you can pretty much predict that response. This time, they told me I should have contacted them within thirty days and that there is still nothing they can do. As expected, some phone operator in a cubicle God knows where has no idea who Starrett is or why I'm so aggravated over a $70 square.

So, that's where I currently stand. I tried calling Starrett back, but they close at 5 pm eastern. Hopefully, they'll be able to figure something out tomorrow. I apologize for the long, rambling post, but I'm a little annoyed right now. I guess from now on I can't let anyone order me a gift unless he/she knows how to thoroughly inspect it himself/herself. What's frustrating is that, for me, this gift was a big deal. I'm still in school and this was my first nice tool. Anyways, we'll see what happens.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Will, sorry to hear about your problem with the square. I would be very surprised if Starret don't help you with the problem, they produce great tools.

My first Starret purchase was a combination square in 1977, it has kept it's accuracy in industrial use for all those years, and has been followed by many other precision Starret tools.

I have a policy of not purchasing anything at any of the big box stores, unless it isn't available anywhere else.

In North America, we have flocked to the big box stores to save a few cents on items that we could purchase at smaller local, or more specialized stores for a slight price increase. This has tended to drive the quality of items down, as well as service, not to mention making our choices more homogenous.

Twenty years ago I purchased a brass/rosewood try square from Lee Valley Tools. The square wasn't quite square, however I kept it for 15 more years, not used because of it's problem. It looked so nice in the tool crib, I simply kept it to look at!

Finally, I took it back to Lee Valley, gave them the square, presented my customer number, and asked what they could do for me. I did not have a receipt for the square.

Two weeks later, a letter arrived in my mail box from Lee Valley. To paraphrase the letter signed by Leonard Lee " Dear Mr. Sheridan, we have checked our files and the latest year that you could have purchased this square was 1987. The catalogue price was $37.95 at that time, please find enclosed a cheque for the full amount, including the Provincial sales tax you would have paid. Thank you, Leonard Lee."

Needless to say, I remain a loyal customer today.

If we expect customer service, we must also expect to pay for that service. Our continued drive for the cheapest, ultimately destroys the ability to provide those services.

I hope your square story has a pleasant a conclusion as mine, and that you remember to patronize those establishments that are the best, not the cheapest.

Regards, Rod.

[Will Yancey]

Well said, Rod. That's a pretty amazing story as well. Unfortunately, finding the tool you want can be tough in smaller towns, especially when the big stores have already stamped out the local stores. I must admit that a bad customer service experience can quickly overshadow any money you save at the big box stores.

[Hoa Dinh]

I'm dissapointed that HD doesn't take the square back.

I'm even more dissapointed that Starrett doesn't take care of it.

Last year I bought a Starrett combo square from eBay, missing the scribe. I sent an email to Starrett, asking them where I could buy a scribe. Next thing I knew, they sent me one free of charge.

[Frank Chaffee]

Gosh Will, I feel your pain.
One thing I have discovered is that Home Depot has an extraordinarily generous return policy when an item is brought in through the door. Simply present the substandard item at the return desk and state what the malfunction is. Faster than you can say “Wham, Bam, Thank You…”, you can be credited in the tender of the original purchase; cash or credit card.

[glenn bradley]

I agree with Frank. Make no mention of your previous experience. Walk in and state you received it as a present and it is defective and all you want to do is exchange it. If all the original packing is there and it shows no signs of not being purchased yesterday, there should be no issue. The person at the returns desk does just that, makes returns, not decisions. Give it a try and don't say anything about your previous discussions, etc.

[Will Yancey]

I agree with Frank. Make no mention of your previous experience. Walk in and state you received it as a present and it is defective and all you want to do is exchange it. If all the original packing is there and it shows no signs of not being purchased yesterday, there should be no issue. The person at the returns desk does just that, makes returns, not decisions. Give it a try and don't say anything about your previous discussions, etc.

I've thought of that, but I don't know that it would work. Home Depot only sells Starrett squares online. I have a feeling they would realize this when they try to scan the barcode. (They don't allow returns of online items in their stores).

[Will Yancey]

I'm dissapointed that HD doesn't take the square back.

I'm even more dissapointed that Starrett doesn't take care of it.

Last year I bought a Starrett combo square from eBay, missing the scribe. I sent an email to Starrett, asking them where I could buy a scribe. Next thing I knew, they sent me one free of charge.

I'm not giving up hope on Starrett yet. They've been helpful thus far and have made it clear that they will work to make things right. I'll see what they say tomorrow.

[glenn bradley]

Sorry, my bad. You are correct. My HD declares the online group to be a whole different company in their eyes.

[Larry Crim]

I think the starret brand has gone down in quality, I recently ordered a starret protractor when I got it in the mail I checked the accuracy against several angles one being a starret square, it was off about 1.5 degrees, thinking this was just one that made it past QA I returned it and ordered another, same thing with the new one just off 1 deg in the other direction. so I gave up and just returned it.
Larry

[Will Yancey]

Update:

Well, after again contacting Starrett, they connected me with their repair shop and had me send in my square to be repaired. At the time, they couldn't guarantee that it would be taken care of or that I wouldn't be charged for repairs, but the employee I spoke with seemed confident that they would warranty it. Now, a little over two weeks later, a package has arrived from Starrett. In it, I found a note stating that the blade had been replaced free of charge and that I should "back off on bolt one or two turns if the square slides rough on blade." Keep in mind that I had sent a letter along with the square in which I very clearly described the problem as being the excessive wear on the blade, not any roughness in function.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but the problem seems fairly simple to me. You have a head and a blade. If the blade is being scratched and worn, then you either have a problem with the blade's finish (unlikely) or a problem with how the slot in the head is machined (most likely). So, I take my repaired square out of the box, run the head down the blade a few times, and observe the finish being worn in the same pattern and on the same side as before.:mad:

So, I grabbed a flashlight and took a look at the slot in the head. Compared to the rest of the surfaces on the square, it looks pretty awful. I guess I'll be calling Starrett Monday and directly asking for a full replacement of the square. If they don't take care of it this time, I think I'll be done with Starrett. Of course, in the best case, I'll still be out ~$12 shipping the thing to Starrett twice plus the wasted time. I understand how parts can slip through inspection (you'd have to look closely to see inside the slot). However, I'm fairly disappointed that Starrett's repair shop didn't figure the problem out. I guess I should have specifically told them to check the head in my note...

Hopefully, I'll have better news next week.

[Seth Poorman]

Call them on the phone, Will. Many companies are still not setup with the right technology to respond to email as timely as they should. (I'd be very happy to sell it to them...LOL!) So for issues that are somewhat important, you can't beat a phone call.

I agree w/ Jim , I would go straight to the source and make phone calls,
E-mail tag could take weeks to get anything done.

[CPeter James]

Starrett is an old company and the still do things the old way. They do electricity, but the factory is over a hundred years old and it is a wonder that the things are as good as they are. The work force is comprised of two groups, old duffers past my age ( I am on Social Security) and young kids that just want a job. Depending on who worked on your square, you may be out of luck.

I would call the company and ask to speak to some one in charge. The offices are right there, not off in New York or some other bigh city. Don't settle for some low level person. You might mention the bad publicity they are getting. There are some there who care, you just need to find them.

CPeter

[Marion Rood]

Wow, what a lot of grief. I have used online Home Depot once and after reading your story I will pass on any future buys.
I have a Starrett square and like it better than the cheap one I used before, but I wonder if they aren't slipping with their tool quality.
I also second what Rod said about Lee Valley. They are a tool company that stands behind any tool they make.
Good luck

[glenn bradley]

Contacted Starrett and expressed my concern that folks were getting a bad message. Email follows:
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/pim/el/abook_add_1.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:document.frmAddAddrs.submit())
From:jrichardson@starrett.com
To:bragl01@yahoo.com
Subject:Starrett: CUSTOMER COMPLAINTDate:Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:44:35 -0500

Mr Bradley, Thank you for contacting us. If it is possible, please contact Mr Yancey and have him return the square to me. He may also contact me directly. I will work with our Repair Department to insure a replacement to his satisfaction. I apologize for his inconvenience. This is not how we normally handle this type of issue and I will work to determine where we went wrong.

John Richardson
978-249-3551 Ext. 178
jrichardson@starrett.com
The L.S. Starrett Company (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/)
121 Crescent Street

Athol, MA 01331

And my response to John at Starrett:

Thank you John for the type of response my little community of woodworkers has come to expect of Starrett. I have forwarded your email to Mr. Yancey who I'm sure will be pleased.

Thanks again,

Glenn Bradley

[Will Yancey]

Update

Well, thanks to Glenn's email, I had John and the head of the repair shop on three-way in about 30 seconds. As you might expect from a company with a reputation like Starrett's, they were very concerned about how this happened with my tool, and they were eager to fix the problem as quickly as possible. I'll be sending my square back today to have the blade replaced and the head repaired/replaced. From what I can tell, it looks like this was just a case of bad luck on my part.

I'd also like to add that I didn't start this thread to criticize Starrett or to threaten them with negative word-of-mouth advertising. I was just looking for a little help on a subject that I'm still new to and thought I'd keep you updated on my own personal experience. I appreciate everyone's help. I really do think this was an exceptional case and, after everything Starrett is doing to remedy the problem, I'm quite satisfied with them and will buy their products in the future. I still don't like Home Depot though. ;)

Will