Any Plumbers Out There?

[Byron Trantham]

I was just told that the Propane torches you can get locally don't put out enough heat to adequately solder a copper joint. They told me that acetylene was the gas of choice. Is acetylene hotter?

[Greg Curtis]

I'm not a plumber, but I've done a little soldering. Solder is very easy to melt and those little portable "bernz-o-matic" torches should do fine. I've seen plenty of plumbers use them. Acetylene does have a hotter flame, but I just don't think that is desirable on copper or solder.

[Joe Pelonio]

I'm not a plumber, but I've done a little soldering. Solder is very easy to melt and those little portable "bernz-o-matic" torches should do fine. I've seen plenty of plumbers use them. Acetylene does have a hotter flame, but I just don't think that is desirable on copper or solder.
I agree, I've done a lot of soldering of copper pipes and fittings with propane
torches.

[Rob Russell]

There are 2 reasons plumbers use acetylene:

Because it's hotter than propane, it heats up the joint faster which means less time for them. It also means a slightly more local heat (the longer the flame is on the joint, the further out the copper the heat can flow).
They need the heat to "braze" which is like sweating a joint but it doesn't use solder, it uses another material that I can't remember right now. You need to braze joints that could have steam flowing through them because the steam could get the joint hot enough to melt solder.Rob

[Kyle Kraft]

I agree with Rob. Propane is fine for the homeowner soldering pipes. Refrigeration guys use air/acetylene and oxy/acetylene torches to silver or sil-foss(?) solder lines to withstand the greater pressure and the other heating and time-saving benefits.

[JayStPeter]

I changed from propane to MAPP gas and am happy with that. Propane is barely acceptable.

[David G Baker]

I use propane all the time and have been using it for years. I am not a career plumber but have been doing my own and family copper plumbing soldering for the past 40 years.
MAPP is a better universal gas because it gets hotter and can be used for silver solder and some brazing but it is more expensive and some places do not carry it. Not sure if MAPP needs a supply of oxygen or not.
Acetylene is hotter and if you do an awful lot of soldering, brazing and some welding it is the way to go, but you need oxygen with it. The pros use it all the time for the reasons stated in the above thread.
Many guys use propane with oxygen in bending and cutting mild steel. It is not as good as Acetylene but it is cheaper and safer.
David B

[Curt Harms]

I used a pencil tip trying to solder 3/4" copper and fittings. It really didn't work that well, didn't get hot enough. I then got a self igniting torch that had a larger tip. That worked a LOT better. A small tip doesn't do valves and such any favors because it takes longer to get a joint hot enough and the heat has more time to travel to where it doesn't need to be.

Curt

[Roy McQuay]

I am a pipefitter by trade and we have used Mapp, Apache, natural gas, propane and acetylene, all with oxygen. We also use a plasma cutter for stainless. We prefer acetylene, but we are cutting very large steel pipe with very thick walls sometimes. For the DIY at home, the small propane torch is fine for sweating copper fittings unless you are working with large copper tubing as in drain lines. But, I am not a plumber.

[JayStPeter]

The MAPP gas I use is the same as the homeowner propane torches. It comes in a bottle and costs a couple bucks more than propane. The same fitting screws to the top. The extra heat makes it much easier to use than the same torch with a propane bottle attached.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I've done a lot of plumbing using the common propane gas bottles and torches you get at the local hardware stores. The only time propane might not get the job done is if the diameter of the pipe is too large....say 2" copper.

[Bill Lewis]

Thre real reason to go with MAPP gas is the introduction of lead free solder. Propane is fine for lead based solder, but will never get the joint hot enough for the lead free stuff.
I don't know if this is a national or local enforcement, but I can't buy lead based solder where I live anymore. You also have to buy the correct flux for the new stuff, the old flux doesn't work.

[Kyle Kraft]

Thre real reason to go with MAPP gas is the introduction of lead free solder. Propane is fine for lead based solder, but will never get the joint hot enough for the lead free stuff.

Bill,
I respectfully disagree with the above quote. I and the professional plumbers I know both within my company and outside use lead free solder with propane heat. The main reason for other, hotter fuels, when used with lead free solder is time=$$ savings. Silver based solder like sil-foss and others needs more heat to flow into the joint properly, but the lead-free solder sold at most BORGS and plumbing supply houses does not have a high enough silver content to justify needing more heat.

[Tyler Howell]

I changed from propane to MAPP gas and am happy with that. Propane is barely acceptable.
MAPP is great especially with large and wet pipes but it is about 3X the cost.
I can sweat a whole lot of pipe with the the propane set up.
Acetylene works slick and fast. but more $$$$

[David G Baker]

I used a pencil tip trying to solder 3/4" copper and fittings. It really didn't work that well, didn't get hot enough. I then got a self igniting torch that had a larger tip. That worked a LOT better. A small tip doesn't do valves and such any favors because it takes longer to get a joint hot enough and the heat has more time to travel to where it doesn't need to be.

Curt
Curt,
When I first started trying to sweat copper pipe I tried using one of the pencil tips because I didn't know any better and the tip was the one that came with the set when I purchased it. Then I bought one of the control units that you have to use a match or striker to light that had the correct tip for sweating. It was working great except for having to light it all the time or leave it burning, what a pain that was but I lived with it for several years due to lack of funds. When I discovered the self igniting control, I was in sweater's heaven. I don't remember my dad sweating pipe with a blow torch but I remember him adding white gas, pumping up the tank pressure and igniting the fuel. I have never had one but if I find one at a garage sale I am going to buy it and see how it works on larger copper pipe (If copper ever drops in price again)
David B

[Ken Garlock]

It appears that soldering copper tubing is like all other opinions, and they all stink but mine.:D I don't think you can go wrong with any of the suggestions above.

I installed over 100 ft. of 1/2" copper for my compressed air distribution system, carrying 110# pressure, a couple years ago. I used the standard Burns-o-matic torch you get at the borg. The standard propane will and does work.

To use any of the gases or torches, you must start with clean copper. Use a joint cleaning tool, emery cloth, or steel wool if you must. Then coat the inside and outside with flux that is made for copper tubing.

Evenly heat the joint, and you will know you have a good joint with you see the solder sucked up into the joint by capillary action. Do not move the joint in any manor for a minute, and do not throw water on it it cool it. Any movement of the joint while still in a plastic state will ruin the bond of the solder to the copper.

Sweating copper is not magic, it just takes a little practice.

[Jim Becker]

I've also used a 'borg supplied torch perfectly fine for sweating copper...but I have to admit that it looked like a whole lot more fun when my plumber was doing some work with the "big torch"!! No lines...no waiting...just quick heat and sweat!

[Bill Lewis]

Thre real reason to go with MAPP gas is the introduction of lead free solder. Propane is fine for lead based solder, but will never get the joint hot enough for the lead free stuff.

Bill,
I respectfully disagree with the above quote. I and the professional plumbers I know both within my company and outside use lead free solder with propane heat. The main reason for other, hotter fuels, when used with lead free solder is time=$$ savings. Silver based solder like sil-foss and others needs more heat to flow into the joint properly, but the lead-free solder sold at most BORGS and plumbing supply houses does not have a high enough silver content to justify needing more heat.

And I too have to respectfully disagree with your statement. I've tried the new solder several times using propane only, and yes you can get hot enough to flow a joint, but just barely. It takes awhile, and you have to keep the torch moving over the joint to get the heat all around it. Frankly this takes too much time, and you can still end up with a suspect (cold) joint. You also run a higher risk of extensive scorching of surrounding materials. Mapp gas burns hotter, and is much faster and consequently, also much safer.

I have a good friend and neighbor who has a successful pluming business, and he won't use propane only anymore for the reasons I've listed.

The best solution for homeowners is to get a kit that costs about $30 at the borg that has a push button ignition torch head, and a bottle of Mapp gas. The works great when your stading on the top rung of a ladder reaching in to a tight space to sweat a joint. I'll never go back to propane only.