Need help with attaching stair treads

[Tom Jones III]

I have pulled the carpet off my stairs and I am putting in walnut treads. I put a few down last night and a couple of them creak when I walk on it. Here is what I did:
1. First I removed the 2x12 carpet tread and the 2x6 riser.
2. I either cleaned up and flattened the existing riser or replaced it with a new one. I attached the riser with liquid nails (subfloor flavor) and 3" long #8 deck screws.
3. I put the riser in at the correct height and then added shims to the stringer to bring them to the proper height. I attached the spacer on top of the stringer with liquid nails and either nails or screws if the spacer was tall.
4. I attached the walnut tread to the riser and stringer using subfloor liquid nails.

I think that the treads creak because I did not get the riser and 3 stringers all exactly level so the tread is only resting on 2 stringers and when I step on it the tread flexes down to the third stringer. What is the best way to fix this? Note, because of the construction of the stairs it is not feasible to attach screws to the treads from the back.

* LOML wants me to reglue and weight the tread down while the glue dries. I'm worried that the glue will eventually fail and then the tread will pop back up and creak again.
* I have a 16 gauge finish nailer, will that help at all or is 16 ga. too small? I'm worried that this will eventually fail too and pop up and creak.
* The only certain way I can think of is to pull out the tread, scrape off the glue and hand plane everything exactly flat. That sounds like a lot of work.

[Keith Webster]

the sides of the treads rubbing against the wall may be were the sound is coming also. check to make sure.

[James Suzda]

I think I would have used PFL400 which is also a gap filler. (I don't know is Liquid Nails a gap filler also?) Can you run a couple of screws from the back side of the riser board into the back of the tread as you put the treads on?
Jim

[Richard Wolf]

I think you have two choices, find a way to attach the risers to the treads, which adds a great deal of support to the treads. Or add shims under the treads to suport the tread at all three points. I find PL construction ad. better than liquid nails. Use plenty of it at all contact points.

Richard

[Tom Jones III]

Thanks for the input. Due to the comments I just thought of something, I painted 1/8" hardboard white and glued them to the pine 2x6 risers. Since the structural riser will be covered I could use a pocket screw through the 2x6 riser into the bottom of the tread and the screw will then be covered!

[Dave Novak]

I'm about to embark on the same project. I didn't plan on removing the 2X12 treads that are already there, I was just going to glue and screw either 3/4 or 4/4 walnut on top of them. Any problem with this approach?

[Lee Schierer]

On the Ask This Old Hose show they silenced a set of stairs. Tommy used shims pounded in from the front under the stringers that had spaces under them. To have a squeek free stair, all the stringers have to support the tread all the way across. They inserted the shim by removing the trim moulding on the riser, put in teh shim and replaced the trim.

[Tom Jones III]

I'm about to embark on the same project. I didn't plan on removing the 2X12 treads that are already there, I was just going to glue and screw either 3/4 or 4/4 walnut on top of them. Any problem with this approach?

My sister had this done by a pro and there are no problems with it. Her treads are 1/2" thick. She said they did a lot of work to get the 2x12 flat before gluing on the new tread. Don't forget to think about how the glue on top method will change the height of the first and last steps. Right now our first step is 5/8" too high until we get the flooring installed on the landing and it is very awkward.

[Pat Zabinski]

I'm about to embark on the same project. I didn't plan on removing the 2X12 treads that are already there, I was just going to glue and screw either 3/4 or 4/4 walnut on top of them. Any problem with this approach?

From a comfort perspective, I believe the building code requires each step to have the same rise within 1/4". So, the first step on the bottom, the steps in the middle, and the top step need to rise the same amount. Otherwise, the natural tendency is to lift your leg the same height with each step, but you could trip if the rise is too much different than the others.

I'm not sure where the 1/4" spec came from, but I've noticed this effect when rises are significantly different (say, 1" or more).

If you place walnut treads on top of the 2x12s, might be worth ensuring
the rise is similar on each step.

[Dave Novak]

Thanks, that's a great point.

[Mike Murray]

My sister had this done by a pro and there are no problems with it. Her treads are 1/2" thick. She said they did a lot of work to get the 2x12 flat before gluing on the new tread. Don't forget to think about how the glue on top method will change the height of the first and last steps. Right now our first step is 5/8" too high until we get the flooring installed on the landing and it is very awkward.
Tom, in your sister's case, do you know how the treads were fastened? Are there any creaks? I'm also in the middle of a similar project and I'm planning to fasten the new treads to the existing 2X12 tread. Mine are in very good shape... flat, square, solid. I'm planning to use a BUNCH of liquid nails (or maybe PL construction adhesive based on Richard's comment) and some finish nails to hold it until the adhesive sets up. On another forum, they recommended 1 tube per tread (sounds a bit excessive) and said that the adhesive will serve as a gap filler, compensating for any imperfections in the 2X12.

Regarding the change in rise, my first step is already about an inch too shallow due to some very thick saltillo tile that was installed many years ago at the base of the stairs; so the increased rise will actually compensate for that. My top step will definitely be 1" too short when I'm done, but I really don't want to tear out the existing treads, so I'll live with it.

[Richard Wolf]

Tom, in your sister's case, do you know how the treads were fastened? Are there any creaks? I'm also in the middle of a similar project and I'm planning to fasten the new treads to the existing 2X12 tread. Mine are in very good shape... flat, square, solid. I'm planning to use a BUNCH of liquid nails (or maybe PL construction adhesive based on Richard's comment) and some finish nails to hold it until the adhesive sets up. On another forum, they recommended 1 tube per tread (sounds a bit excessive) and said that the adhesive will serve as a gap filler, compensating for any imperfections in the 2X12.

Regarding the change in rise, my first step is already about an inch too shallow due to some very thick saltillo tile that was installed many years ago at the base of the stairs; so the increased rise will actually compensate for that. My top step will definitely be 1" too short when I'm done, but I really don't want to tear out the existing treads, so I'll live with it.

Mike, one tube per tread is excessive and if the treads are fitting well, the adhesive will come out the front. Use your common sense about how much you need.
You should address the 1" short top tread somehow, because you will regret it down the road. Atleast try to reduce it to 1/2" by building up the landing. If you have rugs upstairs, you can roll them back and ramp it up with shingles over a foot or two of distance. This is a common practice to reduce thresholds from one room to the next.
If you have hardwood upstair it becomes more difficult, but may be worth the effort.

Richard

[Mike Murray]

You should address the 1" short top tread somehow, because you will regret it down the road. Atleast try to reduce it to 1/2" by building up the landing. If you have rugs upstairs, you can roll them back and ramp it up with shingles over a foot or two of distance. This is a common practice to reduce thresholds from one room to the next.
If you have hardwood upstair it becomes more difficult, but may be worth the effort.

Richard

Richard, thank you for the suggestions. I really appreciate it. Regarding the rise on the top step, I've got 3/8" eng wood flooring on the top landing, so raising that is not an option at this point. However, I did some careful measuring last night, and the change is not a full inch. It's around 5/8" +/- 1/16". I know you're the resident stair expert here... Is 5/8" an amount that will be noticable or a safety hazard? As an alternative, I was thinking about removing the top 2X12 tread only and planing it down about 1/4". This would "spread" the difference between the two top steps and put me close to the 1/4" variation allowance. Is it better to have two steps off by around 1/4", or one off by 5/8"? Thanks again.

Mike

[Tom Jones III]

In my sisters case they flattened the 2x12, used adhesive and then nailed the heck out of it with a finish nailer. She has 3 kids and it has been a couple years with no squeaks or any problems at all, although I'm not a huge fan of seeing all the finish nails in the treads. However, a non-woodworker might not even notice.

About the 5/8" difference, we have exactly that difference right now since I am planning on installing 5/8" wood floor on the landing. Right now, I do not have the landing flooring in but I do have the stairs in. The step is very awkward and anyone who uses it bumps their foot, even after I warn them. It is not too bad since it is the first step on the landing but if it was the top step then it would only be a matter of time until someone fell down the stairs. It is dangerous both going up and going down.

If it were me, I would plane down enough 2x12 treads to make the difference no more than 3/16" between any 2 treads. They are very easy to get off and should be easy to get back on since you can put as many nails/screws as you want on the 2x12.

[Tom Jones III]

I've got a new question, LOML wants to know how long after we install the tread before we can walk on it? She is worried about the glue. It seems if we use glue and screw the riser to the tread then we can walk on it immediately.

[Mike Murray]

If it were me, I would plane down enough 2x12 treads to make the difference no more than 3/16" between any 2 treads. They are very easy to get off and should be easy to get back on since you can put as many nails/screws as you want on the 2x12.

Thanks Tom. I think that's exactly what I will do. Two treads should do the trick.

Mike

[Richard Wolf]

Mike; planning down two steps would make a big difference and will solve your problem. The top step being lower than all the rest is the least dangerous of all the situations.

Tom; if you are using the adhesive as a gap filler it may take some time, 24 hrs or more to dry completely. Stepping on them may compromise what you want to do.

Richard