New guy (and his wife) saying hi and asking a ?

[Justin King]

Hey everyone,
We, Justin and Katie, have been lurking around the forum for quite some time and due to our short time of expierience have not posted yet -- We thought that we would post a picture of our less than ideal setup and ask a question at the same time.

How much do i need dust collection for operational purposes? So far we are getting by, but with the Yorkie 8" jointer inbound i am not sure how long we can put it off.

Heres the interesting part - we are a military family and do not currently have a garage so we are making do with out 38' enclosed race car trailer as our shop currently -- It is 8' wide on the inside and 30' long on the floor -- it is fully wired for 240v and 110v - i have a subpanel in the trailer that is hard wired to the house's main panel with 8/4 SO --

So, we can not afford all the room in the world, but we are not willing to buy "disposable" tools either as one day, sooner than later, we will have a "normal" garage.

Can i get by with a shop vac? my only concern is the jointer(Yorkie 8") and the planer ( father in law is bringing me his 15" unknown brand)


without going to crazy on this thread i am going to end and see what responses come up....

Justin and Katie


http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/justinking060310/trailer00001.jpg

[Don Bullock]

Welcome Justin and Katie. I'm glad you decided to post your question, but I don't have enough background to give you a good answer. Currently I don't have a dust collection system in my shop. I know I should have one. Right now I don't have the space or the money for one.

[Jim Becker]

Welcome to SMC, Justin and Katie!

Honestly, for the jointer and planer, if you can't accomodate even a small DC (chip collector) it's almost easier to use a broom and dust pan and wear a mask when using them--a shop vac isn't going to perform well with these tools. The jointer and planer do produce less "fine" dust than other tools, but the personal protection will insure that you are as safe as possible.

[Robert Waddell]

Welcome to the creek.
You can get by with a 1-1.5 hp DC hooked up to one machine at a time. Figuring out how to make it all fit is going to be your biggest problem.
Rob

[Tyler Howell]

Welcome to the Creek J&K. Great palce to hang.
Looks like you got a good start.
Big time on the dust collection, it should be real hi on the short list of new toyls.
I want to thank you for your investment. We value our military families.:cool:

[Justin King]

i think that i should have clarified my question -- I wanted to see if there would be any problems with the planer and jointer working properly without dust collection

I have been reading of ?dust/chip? ejection issues(maybe that was a particular machine)??

I can certainly use the old "armstrong" dust collection -- I have been just dropping the back ramp and turning the compressor on with 110 psi on a blower tip -- works pretty well

The DC machines seem a) huge and b)loud -- B i can live with, however A i can not - i would rather have another workbench if i can have the choice.

Justin

[John Miliunas]

First off, welcome to the Creek, Justin and Katie! Great place to hang and I see you already got the idea of us liking pics! :D

I'm going to agree w/Jim B. on this one. A shop vac simply won't do much good with either of those tools. That would be fine for sanding or maybe even dust collection for a bandsaw but, not on those two particular chip-makers. Consider something with more volume ability or go to the broom & dustpan route (w/personal safety equipment) for now. :) :cool:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Justin.........Welcome to the Creek! Neat place to exchange information! Thanks for what you do every day! We do, indeed, value our military families here!

[David Wambolt]

I look at dust collection like this. If the tool is portable, chances are you will want to use a ShopVac (use one with a filter bag) or a Fein vac. If it's a larger machine, a true dust collector is typically needed for it's higher CFM rating. Also a real dust collector does not work well on smaller portable tools (like a sander or circular saw), where a small vac works well due to the increased suction power with less CFM.

I'd say for the two machines you mention, a true dust collector is the way to go. If you want dust collection for both large and small tools, plan on a smaller vac with a smaller sized hose and a dust collector with 4-6" flex. I'm fond of the Jet DC-1100 series which is a 1.5hp unit that runs on 110/220V. I own the canister version with a remote and it works really nice.

[Justin King]

looks like 4 of us posted in a matter of ten seconds -- Thank you all for the welcome notes --

I do need to add a respirator to my list of "tools"

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Justin.....I have a huge Sears shop vac I bought probably about the time you were born.........I'm guessing you're in your 20's. I brought this thing to Idaho from Illinois nearly 26 years ago and had it for a couple of years in Illinois. It won't begin to keep up with my 13" planer and doesn't do too good of a job with my 6" benchtop jointer.......You really would be better off a DC. When I get my shop finished DC is one of the first tools on my list....before I before I buy my aircraft carrier 8" parallelogram jointer. Not getting good airflow can have a real effect on the operation of those two tools you mentioned.

[Justin King]

thats what i was afraid of (that it would affect the operational capacity of the equipment)-- and yes, Ken, you are correct that your vacuum is older than i am -- 25 in march to be exact....

the best thought i have is finding something that will fit under the right side of the cabinet saw -- i will have to research DC a bit more -- i dont want to buy 1.5 hp worth of dust collection only to find out that it doesnt suck well --- hahahahaha, oh nevermind :)

justin

[Robert Waddell]

Justin and Katie,
Your question about chip ejection is a good one. If no DC on the planer you will have to stop almost after every pass on a long board to clean out the chips esp. on some species of wood. The chips get up under the board and stuck to the feed rollers causing all kinds of problems on most 15" planers. On my Delta 22-580 (13" portable) it blows the chips out itself. On my 15" floor model the chips clogs everything if the DC is not hooked up. Would it be possible for you to set-up a DC blower outside the trailer? If so you might be able to just suck all the chips and dust outside into a bin, drum, trailer, etc.
Rob

[Justin King]

that may wind up being my best option -- it just doesnt sound like the most fun to pick up a dc unit and set it outside everytime i go in the shop - bit i could work it out -- then there is the issue or actually running 4 inch hose around my shop..... hmmm, i will probably end up at this though..

[Brian Ross]

Justin & Katie

I would consider a used 2 hp at one end of your trailer and 6 in spiral collection pipe running the length of the trailer with a couple of wye's to run flex hose to your machines. I would place the spiral pipe on the roof where it meets the wall. The flex hoses would be 4 inch. I would not hesitate buying a used DC or any other wood working machine for that matter.I assume that with a trailer like you have that you have some mechanical experience and replacing the odd bearing would be easy. Good luck with your hobby and I share your thoughts on buying equipment that you will need to upgrade in a year or two. An 8 inch jointer is a good start.
Brian

[Dan Mages]

Well. I see the clamp fetish has set in. Better than other fetishes I guess. ;) ;)

Seriously tho. As some have said, the shop vac will work. Or you can go with a basic chip sucker made by Delta or one of the other big boys for about $200. I have one and it does what I expect for the price, which is not that bad.

But given your shop size, a neaderthal approach to woodworking... not to mention clean up (broom and dust pan) may be in order.

Semper Gumby

Dan

[James Suzda]

I'd recommend getting one of the small Delta 1 hp DCs which would fit nicely along side your compressor. Then run a 4" hose to which ever machine you are using. Not the best situation, but it will be better than using a shop vac or sweeping the chips. Besides, unless you have a DeWalt planer that has a chip blower, your planer will plug up with wood chips in a hurry.
Jim

[Michael McCoy]

Justin
I have the 6" version of that Yorkie and ran it outside without a DC before I moved. It got the job done but was a pain in the rear. Your vacuum isn't wasted though since it will be needed to suck out the chip ejection chute as it fills up in pretty short order. :)

[Alex Berkovsky]

Justin/Katie,
Welcome to the Creek. How about something like a portable DC similar to this one --> linky (http://Justin and Katie). Then, you can always add an air filter system (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91393). I am not saying to get a Harbor Freight unit... just giving an example.

[Dick Bringhurst]

Welcome Justin and Katie.

I operated my 6" jointer and 15" plainer for several years without dust collection. No harm to the eauipment at all. As hs been noted some chips may be a problem with the piece of wood you are working with. I found that when chips start kicking back to the infeed side you need to stop and clean them out. I didn't have to do it all that often, but when it starts, clean it out. Dick B.

[David Cramer]

Justin and Katie

Thank you so much for serving our country! Even though I am new here, I will tell you that it is an honor to have you on this site. I am so proud of our military, that I will just leave it at that.

As far as dust collection goes, I would do what Alex said and get a something like a 1.5Hp unit from Penn State or any other decent company. For chips it will do you just fine and unless you're doing tons of jointing, it's really not that bad to empty it. Welcome to the premier woodworking site on the net! In my opinion anyways! Good luck with your decision.

Dave

[Kyle Kraft]

Mount a DC to the tongue of the trailer, similar to where the propane tanks are on a travel trailer. You could fashion a lightweight sheet metal enclosure for it for protection....Ask Alan with the trailer lift for ideas!!!!:)

[Rich Torino]

Welcome & Welcome....
I worked without a dust collector for quite a while... Just as Jim said dust pan and broom will work fine but make sure you use a good mask...

[Chris Bolton]

I used one of the the cyclone lids for a standard garbage pail to suck up the larger bits from the planer and jointer with a larger wet/dry shop vac. The lid keeps most of the shavings out of the vaccum meaning I don't have to empty it as often. I'm sure you can find these at other stores cheaper than what L.V. sells them for.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=30282&cat=1,42401&ap=1

Harbor Freight has a little one, but you may want to check to see if they have one that will fit a garbage can.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=9586

There's no harm to either machine not using D.C. but both machines can make a pile of shavings in a short time.

[Keith Webster]

My Dewalt planer will clog up if I dont have a vac system hooked up to it. Others may work fine.

[Fred Nilles]

Hi Justin & Katie,
I have a small/tight shop situation like you two have...although
mine is not mobile!:D

The solution that seems to work for me is a Delta AP300* (smaller low profile) in between the Planer and jointer with a Y and dust gates on each machines hose run.

Another maybe not so hot option would be to just place a bucket or garbage pail under the shute of the jointer...I kind of remember doing that with some success! The planer I have now has a dust shroud with a 2.5" port and before I did the present setup I had a decent size shop vac hooked up to it when i was using it, and that seemed to work OK though if you plane a lot it will fill pretty quick.

* I just recently added a 30 gallon garbage can faux "cyclone" between the machines and the AP300, but I haven't run enough wood through to evaluate it fully (bigger stuff seems to end up in the can).

Good luck with your shop set up, and I hope this might help some!;)

[Ralph Connor]

I use a shop vac with my jointer and planer. No not connected during use as I would empty the shop vac more than use the tool. I use the tools, usually one right after the other and then at the end of the day get out the shovel, broom and wheelbarrow and remove the chips from the shop. Then you pull out the shop vac and clean up any of the left over's and the tools.

Some kind of seperator and dust collector are needed for effective collection from those large volume chip makers.

[George Conklin]

Hi Justin,

A huge welcome an even BIGGER thank you for your service to our country.

As far as your question is concerned,,, I have no idea;) , but welcome anyway:) .

[brian lanning]

The DC machines seem a) huge and b)loud -- B i can live with, however A i can not - i would rather have another workbench if i can have the choice.

Welcome guys. The DC isn't louder than the machines it attaches to, so that's not such a big deal. It will probabaly be quieter than a typical shop vac.

I'd suggest a dust collector around 1100 cfm. It should cost maybe around $350. Try to fit in a 35gal trash can separator if you can. Otherwise you'll be emptying it a lot.

What if you attached two a piano hinges to the wall near the door of the trailer and attached a platform to that. You could put the DC on the platform. When you close the trailer, the DC swings inside. When you use the shop/trailer, the DC can swing around the corner and out the door. It will be outside which should help with the noise situation. That should help with the space issue also.

brian

[brian lanning]

i dont want to buy 1.5 hp worth of dust collection only to find out that it doesnt suck well --- hahahahaha, oh nevermind :)


I had a 1.5 hp delta DC for a while. You probably won't want to use two machines at a time with it. But for one machine, it should work great. I attached mine to a grizzly 15" planer and 8" jointer and it worked fine.

brian

[Justin King]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I appreciate all the responses and suggestions - I am going to ponder it all and post back late tonight or tomorrow - That whole Valentines Day thing is taking priorty tonight-

Thanks Again - and thank you for saying thanks -- It is very good to feel the public behind us in light of the current political situation

Justin