Can I sell this? Legal advice.

[Mike Conley]

I started making two end tables from a Woodsmith plan for our home. After I had already started and cut a lot of the pieces, my wife decided she only wanted one of the tables.

Are there any legal issues with selling the second table since it is built from a Woodsmith plan?

[Jim Becker]

You'll have to check with them on their policy on this. I know that WOOD Magazine allows (or did allow) a limited number of items built from their plans to be sold by the average woodworker. The folks who produce Woodsmith may have different policies. When in doubt, always consult with the copyright holder.

[Per Swenson]

Sure.

You can't sell the plans.


Per

[Geoff Barry]

Yep - what Per said. Not a copyright issue. Now, if as a condition of purchasing the plans you agreed not to sell any furniture made from the plans, you might have a contractual issue, but that's a bird of a different feather.

(Note: As I'm sure the local architects will point out, an architectural design - not just the plans -- can receive copyright protection under certain narrow circumstances. But that doesn't extend outside of architectural design.)


(Note that you can, in fact, sell the plans you bought under something called the First Sale doctrine. You cannot, of course, make copies of the plans and sell those without the specific permission of the copyright holder :) )

[Rick Christopherson]

You'll have to check with them on their policy on this. I know that WOOD Magazine allows (or did allow) a limited number of items built from their plans to be sold by the average woodworker. The folks who produce Woodsmith may have different policies. When in doubt, always consult with the copyright holder.It makes no difference what their policy states, and WOOD magazine oversteps their legal bounds when they make these assertions that have no legal merit. They are relying on intimidation, and from the number of people that keep repeating their statements; it is working. There are very few designs out there that are unique enough to carry any type of artistic copyright protection, and you won't find any of them in a magazine.

[Aaron Beaver]

It makes no difference what their policy states, and WOOD magazine oversteps their legal bounds when they make these assertions that have no legal merit. They are relying on intimidation, and from the number of people that keep repeating their statements; it is working. There are very few designs out there that are unique enough to carry any type of artistic copyright protection, and you won't find any of them in a magazine.

Not disagreeing with you, maybe more agreeing with you. I remember someone actually ask through and email to WOOD and they posted it in their magazine. It stated that he could sell 25 of them, and what gets me is he changed the design. He may of not changed it much but he did change it and they still said he could only sell 25.

I will have to see if I can find the question, in was in there Q & A section in the front, it was on a gumball machine. Maybe they can't stop you but they are stating it.

[Pete Brown]

It makes no difference what their policy states, and WOOD magazine oversteps their legal bounds when they make these assertions that have no legal merit. They are relying on intimidation, and from the number of people that keep repeating their statements; it is working. There are very few designs out there that are unique enough to carry any type of artistic copyright protection, and you won't find any of them in a magazine.

Rick, I'm not calling you out on this, but are you a lawyer?

Pete

[Aaron Beaver]

I asked about this to WOOD and here is my question and their response:

Question on 1/26/06:
In the latest issue there was a letter from a guy who wrote asking if he could sell projects made from plans in the magazine. I believe it was a animal bank, but he modified the project to make it a candy dispenser. You said (if i remember correctly) he could sell 25 of them due to copyright or whatever it was (don't have the mag with me right now), since it was modified to be something else why couldn't he sell as many as he wanted?
When does a project become modified to call it your own that you can sell as many as you want? Just curious really.
Thanks



Answer:
I hesitate to answer this because it is really a legal, question, and I am not a lawyer. It would depend upon the person's definition of "significant". I've seen some projects where the reader thought he was "significantly" changing one of our designs, when all he was doing was changing a few lines or dimensions, but the end product was still based almost entirely upon our design. We are quite lenient on people selling projects made from our designs at the local church bazaar and such. It's when we see advertisements in print or online for one of our projects where we simply contact the person to make them aware of the design rights. If you're building and planning to sell something based on someone else's design, please contact a lawyer with knowledge on design rights. Or simply design your own project from scratch.

[Kyle Kraft]

I like the military's approach. Don't ask, don't tell.

Here is another nugget, It's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

[Per Swenson]

I am not a lawyer.

I am a builder.

And Wood Magazine doesn't have a leg or the resources to stand on.

Here's why.
You cannot copyright furniture unless it is truly super unique.

see the Panton chair. http://www.domusweb.it/domus2k6/source/contents/item.cfm?type=NWS&ID=69600&lingua=_eng

Now lets take Mark Singer's stunning table here. (Yes Mark I dig it)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=527025#post527025

I wanna make one exactly like it. I can. It has 4 legs and a top.

Plans no plans, permission or not.

Same for your night stand.

Copy right law and its abuses have gone way out of control in this country

and abroad. There is now a grass roots effort to put a stop to it.

Before I really start to rant, back to the point.

Sell the table with a clear conscience.

Per

[Mark Singer]

Per,
What did I do now?:rolleyes: Mark

[Rich Torino]

Build it, put it in your house for a couple of days then sell its "as is used".

[Brian Tuftee]

I'll pop in here because I'm a lawyer, and I have a some familiarity with copyright law (though I don't practice in that area). The important thing to keep in mind is the difference between a copyright law issue, and a contractual issue. To the scenario posed by Mike, the act of selling an already-built table would not implicate copyright law, in my opinion. That's because copyright law is generally concerned with (no surprise) making copies of things. If there was ever a copyright law violation, it was when he actually built the table, not when he sold it.

Now, when you go and buy a set of plans, or build from a set of plans out of a magazine, you've got either an implicit or explicit license to make copies of that design, so we'll skip that question for now. How about if you simply copy a neat looking piece of furniture, without plans or permission from the builder? The issue becomes whether or not the original design is protected by copyright. If so, then making a copy without the permission of the original artist would be a technical violation of the copyright law. There are two categories of protected works under the Copyright Act that could apply to woodworking plans: "architectural works" and "pictoral, graphic, and sculptural works". I'm inclined to believe that furniture plans (contrasted with house or building plans) are not going to be considered "architectural", but are going to be viewed simply as "pictoral/graphic/sculptural works". However, as another poster noted, not everthing a person creates (speech, writing, whatever) is protected by copyright law.

To be protected, a work needs to have originality (not a copy of something else), some level of creativity, and cannot be a "useful article". Copyright is intended to protect original artistic-type expressions, not ideas and functional designs (that's patent law). A purely utilitarian object such as clothing is generally not covered by copyright law. Also, a compilation of facts (telephone book) is generally not copyrightable. Ultimately, it will come down to how unique and original the piece of furniture is. If it's basically a copy of a well-known type of furniture (Morris Chair, say), it won't be original. Also, if on the whole the piece is functional, without much 'artistic' embelishment, it won't be protected. I would say that all of the plans I can ever recall seeing in Wood magazine would not be protected, because they're copies of already-existing furniture, or are so basic and unoriginal that any doofus could design it on their own from scratch. I'm not saying such furniture doesn't exist, I just haven't seen it in a magazine. Honestly, I think you'll know such a design when you see it, it'll look weird and beautiful and you'll think "man, that's a nice design".

Now, say you bought those plans, they'll probably come with some kind of a contractual license that says you agree to only produce x number of finished pieces from the plans, or that you won't sell the finished pieces, etc (I've never actually bought plans, only used magazines, books, and my brain, so I don't know for sure). By using those plans to make the piece, you bind yourself to that contractual license agreement, and could potentially face liability for that. But you'd really have to be going whole-hog to get noticed, and be worth it for a company to do something about it. But that's a contract issue, not a copyright one. If you're selling exact copies of a particular company's plans for a piece of furniture, and you advertise broadly enough, you may get noticed and sent a "cease and desist" letter.

Finally, selling the plans. Again, this is not a copyright issue, because you're not copying anything. It may be in conflict with some licensing agreement, but you won't break copyright law. This is known as the "first sale" doctrine, which lets you re-sell an original book, CD, DVD, etc, to anyone you want to (making a copy of that CD or DVD and selling it would however be a copyright issue).

I could go on and on about copyrights, including fair use if you actually do infringe a valid copyright, etc, but suffice it to say for the average woodworker, copyright simply doesn't come into play. I'd only worry about copyright if you're making exact or nearly exact copies of pieces, and the piece is a fairly 'unique' or 'artistic' design. And even then, only if you sell the pieces. If it does bother you, and it's your line of business, you may want to talk to your own lawyer in your jurisdiction - I'm not your lawyer, and I probably don't practice in your state, so I'm not giving you advice you should bank your business on.

[Jim Fox]

Route a different profile on the top and call it done! LOL

[Jim Becker]

Perhaps we should be guided by common sense and courtesy...and that means if you are making your living from the work, use your own designs, use those of others with "permission" or at least give credit where credit is due...