Counter top with granite tiles

[Bryan Parlor]

I like the look of granite counter tops but not the cost ($75-$150 $can/sq ft). I made this one out of granite tiles for $3.99 can/sq ft using tiles from Home Depot. Another advantage of tiles is that I can handle the counter without any help since the tiles are loaded when the counter has been fitted.

The base is 3/4 in ply and the two sections are but joined using three counter clamps (since the gap is not visible). The edge is trimed with a custom oak ply cap.

The oak ply cap is applied first, and used as the reference for the height of tiles. the rear of the ply cap is rebated to allow a 1/4 lip to ride on the bottom of the ply base so that the cap is referenced to the ply bottom.

I decided to risk gluing the cap on without using any brads to hold it while the glue set up. I used ratchet clamps and a striaght piece of 1x1 to get an even pull accoss the cap

The tiles are butted with no gap so as to approximate a granite sheet. Each tile has 4 screws which are used to compensate for the tile to tile variation and get a smooth top. The screws are nominally set so that they sit 1/8 above the ply surface and adjusted for each tile to get a perfect surface. The tiles will be held with blobs of silicon caulking rather than thin set morter.

Normally a wide grout spacing is used to hide tile to tile differences but in this case differences in height are quite visible and you can feel them. In addition some tiles were cut at a slight angle and others had a significantly different thickness -probably having been cut at a different time.

I am still toying with how to grout the small gap between tiles and any suggestions will be appreciated.

Each tile has a 1/16 chamfered edges giving a vee shape between the tiles of 1/8 in by 1/16 in deep.
I plan to mask around the joints and force either a transparent epoxy or silicon into the joint using a blade. I don't want the material to come loose or degrade over time.

Caulking is not normally recomended for gaps less than 1/8 in but maybe forcing it in with a blade might give the long lasting seal that I need.


Bryan

[frank shic]

bryan, please don't take this the wrong way. i think you may have some long-term problems like tiles popping off with your current countertop installation. first of all, the preferred underlayment for granite tile would be cement backerboard not plywood. next, the preferred adhesive would be thinset mortar not glue. finally, you're going to have a hard time getting whatever you use for grout to stay in those tiny joints you've got from butting them together. since you've already completed most of the project, i'd recommend a non-sanded grout like white or something that approximates the granite color (pink?).

[Richard Kagen]

a couple of data points...


Years ago I made small counter top for a passthru counter top. I used 2 thicknesses of 3/4 plywood and an Oak border. I left very small joints at the edge and between tiles (ceramic not granite in my case). I set the tiles in almond silicon and it was never a problem.
My current kitchen has granite and the back splash is bonded with silicon as is the dishwasher and the brackets under the overhang
Phelonic (sp?) is supposed to be stronger for granite, but I think the pro's do not use is as clean up is harderThe real trick is to keep the substrait from flexing. if you have any widely spaced cabinets you might want to glue/screw some hardwood braces to the underside. You will be height limited by the draws. Just a thought
Good luck

[David G Baker]

Bryan,
I use silicone for setting most things because it remains flexible and is very strong once it sets. Not sure what is going to happen when you grout the tiles, that is a very small space but what the heck give it a try it may work out very well. Keep us posted. I like the idea of using granite tiles instead of slabs.
David B

[Tim Lynch]

You may want to check out the John Bridge Tile Forum. A great site to get help; real friendly folks over there.

http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php

[Keith Webster]

Do not use standard thinset with this granite. You need to use an Epoxy based thinset. Standard thinset can cause discoloring and warping. Check with your local tile dist.

[Richard Kagen]

I also "grouted" the tiles with silicon sealant and it worked great. if you use groat regardless of type you are setting up a situation were the tiles have to pop if there is any movement in the substrait.

[Ben Grunow]

I made a tile top with similar gaps between tiles and grouted it with epoxy grout purchased at Daltile (nationwide chain?). Great stuff, mostly b/c it is mold resistant and never discolors. Cant remember how adhesive it was but should be good for you.

Did you support the whole tile with silicone dabs (every 2" or so in a grid on the backs)? If not I would worry about cracks if something is dropped or the wife stands on there to change a light bulb or hang a picture etc.

Ben

[Homer Faucett]

You may want to check out the John Bridge Tile Forum. A great site to get help; real friendly folks over there.

http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php

Quoted for Truth. I'm doing this myself (granite tile counters). The recommended protocol by pros is one or two layers of 3/4" cdx ply for stiffness, one layer of cement board put on with thinset and cement screws every 8", followed by a mortar bed made for granite. I'll be using epoxy grout, which flows between thin gaps and holds quite strong.

I bought a kit to polish the edges of my tiles to add a granite tile edge around the counter. I hope your installation fares better than others who have used the silicone adhesion method. Good luck.

http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.do?contentId=17870

[frank shic]

homer, what polishing kit did you purchase to do the edges of the granite tiles? i remember the pros telling me that bullnosing the edges was a job left for the professional fabricating shops so of course I DID NOT LISTEN and purchased a bosch angle grinder, a diamond grinding wheel as well as eight polishing discs running up a bill of approximately $500. it took FOREVER grinding the edges (which was actually the easy part!) and then polishing them through the different grits. i don't think i'll use granite tile for countertops in the future since solid surface has become more accessible for homeowners and DIY'ers and the stuff machines with the tools that i already have. the 45 degree chamfer on the edges would have been a lot easier - wish i had thought of it. i wonder if they sell chamfer diamond wheels... thanks for posting that great reference to reader's digest along with the diagram of what a proper installation should look like.

[Dan Clark]

You may want to check out the John Bridge Tile Forum. A great site to get help; real friendly folks over there.

http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php

A very strong second about the John Bridge Tile Forum. Please stop by there to discuss your project. They are GREAT people and VERY helpful. It's a good place for a tile newbie to go. While you're there, you might take a peek at my project thread: http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37797. After months of hard work, I should be ready to start tiling in about 30 days.

Regarding installation...

I hate to break this, but the preferred method for a tile countertop is 1) a good solid layer (or two) of 3/4" EXTERIOR grade plywood and 2) either a backer board like cement board or hardibacker, or an uncoupling layer like Schluter Ditra. (I'm using Ditra on my counter tops.)

Also, thinset is the preferred method for setting the tiles. VersaBond would be a good choice.

And, a good acrylic grout like SpectraLock Pro is the best for a countertop because it flexes slightly and because it resists staining. SpectraLock Pro is a sanded grout, but the sand particles are very small so you can work it into a 1/16" grout line.

Good luck with your project.

Dan.

[Jason Hallowell]

I recently did a granite tile counter, and rather than spend a huge amount of time and money polishing the edges, I sent the tiles out to a local shop. With their very large, expensive, and impressive machines, they were able to get a perfect bullnose and polish on all of the edges that will be exposed, and have them ready for pick-up the next day. It was well worth the less than $200, and they came out beautiful. I do agree with other comments that plywood is not the ideal substrate, but I hope it works out for you. I would think that with the combination of unstable wood substrate, and flexible silicone used as a mastick, a flexible grout material would be needed to help prevent cracking and other problems.

[Owen Gregg]

I work in a stone and tile shop. I wish you the best of luck. Although not the ideal substrate, I have heard of it working. I've never actually seen it work, just heard about it. I am bias because of my background and ONLY seeing jobs that have to be redone. I do reccomend the aforementioned tile forum; good stuff with tons of nice people on there. Also, we use Daltile for many of our supplies-good people with good products. Best of luck.

P.S.-For those trying to polish or shape edges on their own-it's important to buy or rent a variable speed angle grinder. Normal angle grinders just spin too fast and are likely to "burn" stone towards higher grits. If you need some edges bullnosed, go to a shop and see what it costs. If it's too much find someone willing to do it as a side job. Even done by hand an intermediate polisher should be able to shell out 6-10 tiles an hour.

[Bryan Parlor]

Bryan,
I use silicone for setting most things because it remains flexible and is very strong once it sets. Not sure what is going to happen when you grout the tiles, that is a very small space but what the heck give it a try it may work out very well. Keep us posted. I like the idea of using granite tiles instead of slabs.
David B

I finished the counter a couple of days ago using clear silicon caulking. The oak trim looks very nice with the tile now that its been urethaned.

I buttered the sides with silicon and pushed them together and the silicon came welling up uniformly along the grout lines. A chisel was used to remove the excess and a razer blade 24 hours later to remove any remaining caulking.

It tolerates my sitting on it and also flexing the overhang -we will see how well it does over time.

I should point out this is my fifth tiling job in the house and that all the others were done conventionally.

I like to experiment with new ideas and it seems to me that tiles on a counter top do not need the the same support as floor tiles and that a rigid attachment and grouting could be a liability on a counter with an overhang unless the substrate is beefed up - but then I would be beefing up the substrate just to protect the rigid thinset/grout.

Thanks for all your comments we will see how it goes.

Bryan