slotted, Phillips or square drive??

[Don Bullock]

I realize that this is a very basic question and some will definately prefer one (slotted, Phillips or square drive) over the other. As some of you know, I'm getting back into woodworking after being away from it for quite a while. I've noticed that many are using square drive screws. These are new to me.

Which type of screw do you like to use most of the time? What are the advantages of the type you use?

[Todd Solomon]

Hi Don,

I really, really prefer square drive. I've been so spoiled by the lack of head stripping with square drive that I often mess up when I have to use phillips. Slotted outa be outlawed, hehe.

McFeely's is a really good source of square drive screws, and they're strong. They carry just about everything under the sun. You can buy an assortment, that comes with handy bins. I also use Spax occasionally, if I need to pick up screws at Orchard Supply. Also very strong.

http://www.mcfeelys.com/

Todd

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Square drive screws. McFeelys. They are hard to strip.

[Bruce Page]

Don, appearance wise I still prefer the Phillips head screw. If strength is the driving factor, I’ll go with the square drive screw. Can’t remember the last time that I used a slotted screw.

[Vijay Kumar]

Personally I like the square drive. There is less chance of slipping thus it drives easier. Followed by Phillips. Last the slotted type. In fact whenever I am repairing a slotted screw I try to replace it one of the above, including any adjacent screws.
I leave the slotted screws only in those applications where the appearance may be compromised--as in some old pieces with a brass slotted screw. Come to think of it I have never seen brass square head screws.

[Bob Rufener]

I use some Phillips head screws but much prefer square drive. Much less chance of stripping the head. Once you try them I think you'll see the difference. In any event, it is always helpful to put a bit of wax on your screw threads before putting them in. I have an inexpensive toilet wax ring that I keep handy for that purpose.

[Dan Lautner]

Neither, I have found a star head fastner that is superior. GRK Fasteners are all I use now. These are premiun screws that leave prerfect results and never split. No need to pre drill and they leave no damage ever. They are expensive but well worth it.

Dan

[Keith Webster]

I tend to use phillips most of the time. I like square drive because it tends to not strip out as often.... BUT....it seems I can never find my square headed bit when I need it most so I end up with phillips head.

[Chris Bolton]

About the *only* good thing about visiting Canada in wintertime is the abundance of square drive (Robertson) screws. Every hardware store has them.
I can't imagine what it would be like driving in a 4 inch ceramic coated deck screw without a square drive. For brass screws that "show", I still like the looks of a slot or phillips screw. They do sell Robertson brass screws up here.

[Jim DeLaney]

Square drive wherever possible. I go through a lot of them.

[Jim O'Dell]

I prefer the square drive, but usually use the Phillips, or Square-X. Some don't like the appearance of the Square drive, but I've seen plastic colored plugs that pop right on to cover the whole screw head. Doesn't really hide them, but does change the appearance. Easy to get back off if you need to take the screw out. Just catch it with a knife edge. Jim.

[Dennis Peacock]

I use a lot of phillips screws, but I also use a lot of square drive screws. I MUCH prefer the square drive screws and I get most all my square drive screws from McFeely's.

[Art Mulder]

Robertson.

Whenever I buy something that comes with hardware I usually toss the included screws and put in Robertson instead.

My drawer-o-screws is 95-98% Robertson.

Occasionally I have to resort to a Phillips.

The only time I turn a slotted screw is when removing the trim piece for an electrical outlet. And each time I wonder why that industry is making me do such an irritating thing. Death to slotted screws! :cool:

[Don Bullock]

Wow, thanks for the quick responses. I was planning on buying some screws through McFeely's and wanted to make sure that square drive was the way to go.

[David G Baker]

I use some Phillips head screws but much prefer square drive. Much less chance of stripping the head. Once you try them I think you'll see the difference. In any event, it is always helpful to put a bit of wax on your screw threads before putting them in. I have an inexpensive toilet wax ring that I keep handy for that purpose.
Bob,
I use Dawn dish soap to lube screws. I keep a small bottle handy. I use canning wax on my hand saw blades. I never thought of a bowl ring, have to give that a try. Thanks for the idea.
I started using the square drive screws after I bought my Kreg 3 kit. I still use a lot of Phillips head drywall screws, they are hardened and few strip out if I use the correct size driver and pre-drill.
David B

[Rick Thom]

"Robertson" (square drive) is my preference for woodworking. I think mainly because the driver tip fits the screw head better than philips or slotted and requires less force to keep it engaged than the other normal options.
Someone years ago told me that the reason they were common in Canada but less so in US is because they were a Canadian invention and patented presumably by a Canadian company. Duno??

[Brian Tuftee]

Love the square drive screws, but stripping isn't usually a problem with regular old phillips heads, if you can easily reach the screw and drive it straight down. Square heads are good when the screw is tough to reach. The wax toilet bowl ring is a good trick, I used that when screwing down the boards for my deck.

[Chris Bolton]

"Robertson" (square drive) is my preference for woodworking. I think mainly because the driver tip fits the screw head better than philips or slotted and requires less force to keep it engaged than the other normal options.
Someone years ago told me that the reason they were common in Canada but less so in US is because they were a Canadian invention and patented presumably by a Canadian company. Duno??

The story goes that Canadian inventor P. L. Roberston, who patented the screw in 1907 was approached by Henry Ford to use these screws for his assembly line. Ford wanted exclusive licensing rites and to control manufacturing and distribution, and the patent holder didn't really like this idea.

http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/Ontario/robertson_screws.htm

[Lars Thomas]

It might make sense to consider who might need to take that screw out. If a 'not-so-handy' homeowner needs to back out the screw, they probably won't have a Robertson to do the job. This may leave them cusing you!

[Jerry Olexa]

I use square most of time and a fair amt of Phillips also...

[Don Bullock]

...In any event, it is always helpful to put a bit of wax on your screw threads before putting them in. I have an inexpensive toilet wax ring that I keep handy for that purpose.

Bob, I've used saop, but your toilet wax ring is a super idea. :eek: Thanks.:D

[Dennis Hatchett]

Neither, I have found a star head fastner that is superior. GRK Fasteners are all I use now. Dan

Dan is right about the star head being superior. When I worry about a screw going in clean, I'll pull out the star bit and screws and they almost never fail. But due to the expense, I only use them for difficult applications. Square drive and phillips are fine most of the time.

[glenn bradley]

Square drive whenever possible. Save the slots for decoritive brass.

[Mark Pruitt]

Square drives are what I like best. #2 Phillips are what I use most, simply b/c they're most easily available.

[Jim Becker]

I use square drive/Roberton screws exclusively when I have the choice. I actually threw out most of the other stuff in my "collection" outside of some specialty sizes, etc., that wouldn't be practical in SD.

[Jim Hamon]

The screw of choice here in Canada. Most of us just automatically reach for them .I guess thats because we don't have to special order them they're available everwhere.
JimH

[Dick Bringhurst]

I use square drive whenever possible. I really like the fact the screw will fit snug on the driver so you can reach out with it and it won't fall off easily. Dick B.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Allen, Torqux, spax, star, square. Pretty much anything but slotted or phillips. I dislike them

[D.McDonnel "Mac"]

Call me old school but I use slotted anywhere they will show on a piece of furniture. I do thinik of the poor sot that has to come behind me and take something apart so I wouldn't use anything but philips or slot on furniture.

For jigs and shop use I use philips or square for ease of use.

[Mike Goetzke]

I know someone mentioned it but I really like the phillips/square drive in the same head. I used to get them at Ace hardware but they recently closed - I need a new source.

Also, since you are getting back in the hobby it's time to look at some new toys - I mean tools. Get yourself an impact screw driver. Believe me you'll love it and you won't need to worry about the bit backing out of a phillips or square drive screw head.


Mike

[Dennis O'Leary]

Square. They rarely slip - more likely to spin the head right off! Slotted brass if visible and they suit the piece.

Errrm - what's a wax toilet ring?:confused:

[chip hamblin]

Square Drive - I have been using them for well over 30 years at our cabin in Ontario, Canada. It added a little spice to the border crossings each year to have to declare that I was importing X boxes of screws to the US. Thanks to McFeely's I now am able to get them without the trip.

[Art Mulder]

It might make sense to consider who might need to take that screw out. If a 'not-so-handy' homeowner needs to back out the screw, they probably won't have a Robertson to do the job. This may leave them cusing you!


I do thinik of the poor sot that has to come behind me and take something apart so I wouldn't use anything but philips or slot on furniture.

First, it boggles my (Canadian) mind to read comments like this... Every (http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=140847439 6672895&bmUID=1171313727589&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443256532&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true) hardware (http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=944758&Ntt=944758&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=113237&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber) store (http://www.sears.ca/gp/product/B000FJG8HA/sr=1-1/qid=1171313957/ref=sr_1_1/105-3410768-8235612?ie=UTF8&searsBrand=core&mqnodeid=APS) in (http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?&NETID=1649270212071342500&NTITEM=B2589) Canada (http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=469666) has Robertson screws and screwdrivers in abundance. (and yes, that includes American-based Home Depot stores up here.;)) Every "multi tip kitchen-drawer (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=50619&cat=1,43411,43417&ap=1)" screwdriver that I have ever seen sold here, comes with the two common Robertson tip sizes.

So I just have a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that people down there just don't have them.

Second, I find this a bit of a catch-22 attitude. If you don't scatter Robertson screws all over the nation, then of course people (and manufacturers) will have no incentive to go find one.

If you build with it, they will come... :rolleyes:

[David G Baker]

Square. They rarely slip - more likely to spin the head right off! Slotted brass if visible and they suit the piece.

Errrm - what's a wax toilet ring?:confused:
Dennis,
A wax toilet ring is the wax seal that goes between the floor flange and the base of the toilet when sitting the toilet down on the floor. The wax ring provides a seal between the metal/plastic flange and the porcelain toilet base preventing sewer gasses and water from entering your living space.
David B

[JayStPeter]

All 3 have their place for me. I use as many square drive as make sense. Actually, I think all the stainless steel screws at the orange and blue borgs are square drive. Which brings me to reasons not to use it. For screws where routing out the head is a real possibility (i.e. 3-4" screws driven into a stud hanging a cabinet), I'll go phillips. If you do rout out a square drive, you're finished, it won't back out either. At least with a phillips you reverse it out, toss it away, and try again.
The only time I prefer slotted is if I am going to paint over it. The plumbing access covers in my house for example. That way you can chip 5 coats of paint out of the slot and still get it out. I like the slot phillips combos for things around the house also. That way you don't have to search for the right screwdriver when a cabinet knob comes loose ... just tighten it with a knife :cool: :D

[josh bjork]

I use Torx whenever possible. I work on a ladder a lot. You can really tell which ones need the least pressure when you are on a ladder. They do drive easier than square drive too.

[Bruce Gray]

Bob,
I use Dawn dish soap to lube screws. I keep a small bottle handy. I use canning wax on my hand saw blades. I never thought of a bowl ring, have to give that a try. Thanks for the idea.
I started using the square drive screws after I bought my Kreg 3 kit. I still use a lot of Phillips head drywall screws, they are hardened and few strip out if I use the correct size driver and pre-drill.
David B

I've used both the liquid soaps and the wax method. They both lubricate the screws ok, but I am not fond of having either around wood that is yet to be finished. The wax tends to ooze up around the screw when it's driven, and can interfere with later finishing. What I prefer is plain cake soap (Ivory seems to work best). I keep a dish with a bar of soap in my shop, and when I want to use it for driving screws, I drizzle some water over it, and then drag the screw through the wetted soap. Because the bar soap is more of a solid, it doesn't have the "oozing" issue, and my totally unscientific opinion says that it's also a better lubricant.

Bruce

[Pete Brown]

Why does everyone lube the screws?

I've found I only need to do that if the wood is tough and I didn't drill a pilot hole. Brass screws are a different story. I always use another screw to cut the threads when working with them.

BTW, I also like square drive. For the subflooring in here and many of the outdoor projects, I used a combo drive coated deck screw (the ones that come with a blue bit in them). They worked really well.

Pete

[John Gornall]

I'm told the name "Robertson" is a brand name owned by a screw company and no longer refers specifically to square drive screws.

Another interesting thing about the original design of square drive screws by Mr. Roberson 100 years ago were the color coded drivers. Yellow, Green, Red, and Black drivers for the #0, #1, #2, and #3 size screwheads in that order.

If you go here:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32219&cat=1,43411,43417&ap=1

you'll notice Lee Valley has the square drivers color coded correctly.

I have a set of these color coded screw drivers that my Dad had 60 years ago.

[Roger Bell]

For everyday....squaredrive an impact driver.

Like Mac, I prefer slotted brass or polished nickel on furniture projects where the screw can be seen (e.g. hinges), or in "period" furniture, where slotted screws, even in unseen locations, is also appropriate. And yes, these must be driven with a hand screwdriver, not an impact driver.

[Sam Chambers]

I prefer square drive. I'm really tired of ruining Phillips head screws on the way in, making it much more difficult (if not impossible) to back them out. I just wish they were more available locally.

[Gary Breckenridge]

;) I like the slotted screw for nostalgia reasons. There is nothing more fun than a screwdriver slipping out of a slotted screw and tearing a 1/32" groove into three layers of hand rubbed finish,;)

[Bryan Berguson]

McFeeleys introduced me to square drive about 12 years ago. Square drive is basically all I use.

Bryan

[Edwin Dodds]

Robertson, hands down! Well, I would use a small brass slot screw to secure a bezel or a hinge if it's going to be exposed. Other than that, the only time I work with a slot or a philips is the time spent removing them so I can replace them with a robertson!

Chris Bolton - Thanks for your information regarding Canadian P.L. Robertson and the invention of the "square drive " screw.

[Jim Fox]

Square drive! Rest of them should be outlawed.........just like the metric system! LOL

[Gary Keedwell]

It was my understanding that Phillip screw heads were designed to cam out during the manufacturing of airplanes, many years ago. The big & cumbersome drivers of the time had no clutches so the screws would cam-out to signify that you drove-home your screw.
That would explain alot....huh?

Gary K.;)

[David Rose]

To me, anything but slotted screws in furniture just doesn't look "right". It's funny, but the first "furniture" that I "built" was a junk entertainment center of particle board. It came with the appropriate confirmat screws with square drive heads. After driving hundreds of those things and stripping plenty (holes in wood, not heads) for various reasons, I came to think of particle board furniture, square drive screws and little paper stick-on screw head covers in the same light. :o Of course, I never stripped a screw head. :rolleyes: It's funny how "notions" are formed.

After starting a deck of treated lumber, I soon came to believe that there *had* to be something better than phillips! I was reintroduced to square heads, and will be forever greatful. :D Then I discovered that the Borgs carried two brands of screws. With a good driver, you could install and remove the better one with square drive several times. The other brand in square drive was worse than the good one in phillips for stripping heads.

Though I like the square drive for utility, I still think the slots look nice when installed carefully. I (taper) drill, prethread with another screw or threading tool with a handle, and still lube the screw. Then I install with a properly fitted hollow ground bit by hand. And I still ruin plenty of screw heads. And yeah, when I am too tired the finish around it can suffer. :mad:

I suppose that 37 years of dealing with gun screws daily has "tainted" my mind. :o Only a few really cheap firearms have ever used anything but slotted. Well, I back up. There are *very* few exceptions to their use in quality guns, I should say. And they just look "right"... until the heads get messed up by the wrong guy or the wrong tool.

David