New Member wants to know how to get started.

[Doug M Jones]

I recently joined this forum (even made a donation but it evidently hasn't posted yet) and am a novice woodworker. I have a Craftsman 9" table saw that is 25 plus years old and a Craftsman Router table that is about the same vintage. Bought a PC 893 2 1/4 hp router that I really like and have a Dewalt 10" mitre saw along with a few clamps and very basic hand tools. I need some advice on where to go next? I was thinking of getting a BS and Jointer or should I get a better table saw or planner first. I keep drooling over the tool gloats and the cost of the equipment I "needed" kept getting more expensive. If I buy the equipment I really like, I won't be able to completly finish buying it for 4 more years. I guess that is my question, is it better to get "good" quality smaller equipment and upgrade later if necessary or should I wait. I want to bypass bench top tools but think I could make some nice items with some smaller floor models. I would love to try turning but small bowls and pens or candle sticks would probably be the extent of my projects so would a mini lathe suffice?

I plan on building mostly small boxes, night stands, coffee tables etc but would like to be able to build something bigger if the need/desire came up. My wifes grandfather built some beautiful grandfather clocks and had all benchtop equipment so I guess skill plays a bigger part than machinery.

I've rambled long enough. Any words of wisdom will be much appreciated.

Thanks

[Carl Eyman]

Probably my answer will be different than the majority opinion but believe it if it makes sense and rejrect it otherwise. Start working with the tools you have. Don't take on projects that require tools or skills you don't have yet. For instance, until you have a jointer you probably don't want to glue up panels for a dining room table. But you can certainly make a picnic table for the back yard.

The oft stated "rule" to buy the best quality and buy once makes sense, but so does the advice to buy good used tools and save money that way.

If you buy tools as you need them, you won't have money tied up in a great tool you never have the need to use.

Again welcome, and post lots of pictures of your progress.

[Jim Hager]

I would stay away from entry level machinery and save money to buy the better quality tools. You'll save money in the long run. I started with entry level tools and have replaced all of them with better as time went on. I would have been money ahead to save until I could afford what I really wanted.

[RichMagnone]

First, welcome to the Creek. When I say you have an interesting dilemma, I mean in. We in woodworking can get caught up in the Normite world of the biggest and best. I have my share of guilty pleasures (18' bandsaw, plenty of Festool equipment) and some of the guys here have things you would drool over! (drum sanders and table saws with riving knives and sliding tables).

The truth is, there are also people here who produce woodworking results you would drool over and they do it with very basic tools. I can assure you, you are not alone in the Craftsman tablesaw crowd!

That's where your dilemma becomes interesting. You probably have enough in your workshop to do lots of great projects. Did you ever watch "the router workshop" on PBS? Those guys ONLY use a router! You can move along slowly as you learn and add tools (please also consider hand tools) as you go - that's the fun part.

My first advice is to make sure the tools you have are properly aligned. If they are not, there are lots of articles and posts here and elsewher on the web for learning that. A set of "PALS" from inline industries will go a long way toward making your tablesaw cut accurately if it already does not.

Out of the tools you list, I think a bandsaw would be the best addition to your collection. There are some here who have argued that a bandsaw can replace a tablesaw. With a router for dado work, they are probably right.

Also, do not shy away from "used" tools or "old iron". You can still find baragin tools on craigslist, ebay, garage sales and the classifieds forums here and on the other woodworking sites. You can add some good stuff for cheap.

As for your other tools on the want list (planer and jointer), I would not buy one until I could buy both. They really are so related when it comes to milling that I think they are both essential at the same time. A planer is probably useless without a jointer. I could not argue that the other way around, so if you must get one, get the jointer first.

Finally, have fun and ask questions here. The people on this board are helpful and many are accomplished (we have some heavy hitters here and I am always pleasantly surprised at how giving they are of their ideas and time).

[CPeter James]

I have a pretty complete shop and did not pay full price for most of it. I bought a used PM66 for $1,000. That was one of my biggest outlays. I just picked up another PC 6902 router brand new for $98.50. My theory is to wait until the deal comes to you and not go looking of the deal. I stumble onto more than I can afford or need. I try not to pay more than 40% of new.

Check out you local Craig's List and don't give up on EBAY. Do local searches so you can look before you buy.

CPeter

[Mike Cutler]

Doug.

Lumber follows a flow path for work. Jointing, planing, sizing, shaping, sanding,assembling, finishing.

Start with a good jointer. You will read countless threads where more experienced woodworkers advise less experienced woodworkers to get the biggest jointer they can afford. Bigger is better.

A 15" stationary planer is more planer than most woodworkers will ever need. This is also my minimum size. if you need a bigger planer, you'll know it.

If your current tablesaw will cut to a line repeatedly,doesn't bog down and pop breakers. Keep it for awhile longer, until you have a chance to determine what size and type of tablesaw you really need.

Bandsaws are like Jointers. Bigger is better. There is aways a ton of 14" Taiwanese bandsaws for sale used from folks that upgraded to bigger bandsaws for resawing.
You'll find that once you have a nice powerful bandsaw, your tablesaw will get less use. Bandsaws are very versatile.

"Material Prep" is where you might want to consider starting your machine investments. Once you find out what type of woodworking you're into, that will dictate the rest of your selections. You always have to prepeare stock though, no matter what.

[Von Bickley]

Doug,

It sounds like you have enough tools to build coffe tables, end tables, bookcases, etc. Find some good books on woodworking (try your library) and go from there. Your first projects don't have to be built from cherry or walnut, you can build some nice projects out of pine. Save up for bigger and better tools as finances permit.

Welcome To The Creek...;) ;) ;)

[Dewayne Reding]

Welcome to the forum from another Iowegian. Your predictament is the same as most of us at one time. The guys have given good advice. With the exception of perhaps a planer, the entry level bench top tools will leave you wanting for more in a matter of days. Do you NEED a new TS? Does the one you have right now cut accurate enough to make the things you want with very tight joints? As I read on some forum, square is square, flat is flat, parallel is parallel. If your saw does those things, then buying an expensive one isn't going to improve your woodworking all that much.

Sounds like your Grandpa made some nice stuff using a benchtop. I bought a benchtop TS in October, and a cabinet in January. The little Dewalt was extremely accurate on little boards. I have found I can cut (wrestle) a largish piece of plywood on it too. Just sneak up on it with six tiny cuts. Or my Craftsman 22124 cabinet saw will do it in a fraction of the time with the good Biesemeyer fence. I'll never go back to a portable saw for woodworking.

I just read Mikes post. I was going to say the jointer is the one tool I could have waited a while to buy. My table saw and planer seem dead on to me. Joints appear very tight. I'm sure he is right though. Maybe I need some more precise measuring tools? :)

[Ted Miller]

Doug, I like what Carl said, do with what you have for now. Then you can add equipment as you need it. Look at each project and then figure out what equipment you may need to finish it just like you do your cut list and hardware list. Its nice to buy tools but its better to add one at a time and learn how to use it before buying another...

[glenn bradley]

Speaking as one who bought some low end used stuff to start. I did so because I didn't know if I would stick with the hobby. Once it stuck I couldn't get rid of the "let's see" stuff fast enough (still have the BS & DP). This is always a tough call because we can't all afford to run out and buy "the best" right now.

I bought better routers and this and that to milk some more life out of my starter tools but then hit the wall with what they would do reasonably. I say reasonably because people do build beautiful items without major power tools. I just don't have that gift.

My first big upgrade was the table saw. I chose a hybrid based on power and space availability. I then built shop cabinets for the planer, CMS, router table, etc. This not only helped set up shop but it helped me develop a method of work so I could judge what kind of tools I "need". Before practicing a little bit I couldn't have told you that I need a better jointer before i get a better BS, now I know.

A bigger jointer is my plan for this year. . . let's see; 8" or 12" . . . 8" or 12" . . .

[Carl Eyman]

When I was in the start-up mode with my shop - didn't have a full stable of tools - I took classes at the local high school. There wasn't much instruction, but one had use of the tools. It was how I learned what a jointer could do and also a router. If you have that opportunity you can postpone purchase of certain tools while you accumulate the money to buy them.

[Paul Douglass]

When you can build good stuff with what you have, think how much better you will be as you gradually upgrade to better tools. You will also have a better idea of what you want as you get more experience. The only tools I have that I am sorry I bought are the ones I rushed to get and didn't take the time to be sure it is what I wanted.

Welcome to the forum, you came to the right place.:)

Says "contributor" under your name....

[Mike Cutler]

A bigger jointer is my plan for this year. . . let's see; 8" or 12" . . . 8" or 12" . . .

16" :D :D :D ;)

[Dave Falkenstein]

Welcome to Sawmill Creek.

Upgrade or add to your tool collection as you take on projects that need the new tool. Since you already have a "beginner" set of tools, when you upgrade go to a level that you are pretty sure will last you for a number of years. If you find you need to upgrade a tool later, buying decent quality now will mean those tools can be sold later. Never buy on price alone - that is typically a waste of money.

I started out with a garage shop full of Craftsman tools. I now have a bigger garage shop full of everything but Craftsman tools. Most of those Craftsman tools served me well for many years, and when I upgraded I easily sold the old Craftsman tools for about half the current street price for an equivelant tool.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Welcome Doug to SMC. I was like you 4 or 5 years ago. I have a bench top Delta tablesaw. I built a roll around bench for it and like one the posters said get some equipment to check it for square and accuracy. Still accurate enough for me. I was going to get a jointer first thing. I had a elderly gentleman help me build a jig out of a woodworking book where you use a router as a jointer. I don't need a jointer now. So I bought a good bandsaw instead of a jointer or planer. I have several hand planes if I need a board planed.

I agree with Carl and others. Buy the tools as you need them. Do some reading and take some classes.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I would stay away from entry level machinery and save money to buy the better quality tools. You'll save money in the long run. I started with entry level tools and have replaced all of them with better as time went on. I would have been money ahead to save until I could afford what I really wanted.

Yah what that guy says.

[Don Bullock]

Welcome to Sawmill Creek.

Upgrade or add to your tool collection as you take on projects that need the new tool. Since you already have a "beginner" set of tools, when you upgrade go to a level that you are pretty sure will last you for a number of years. If you find you need to upgrade a tool later, buying decent quality now will mean those tools can be sold later. Never buy on price alone - that is typically a waste of money.....

Personally, I think that Dave has the right idea. That's exactly what I'm doing. Just like you I started with a Craftsman TS. For now it is still a good tool and cuts just fine especially since I added a Forrester WW II blade to it. Sure the fence system is terrible, but I know how to set it up for the projects I'm doing. As I need tools for new projects, I'm buying them. I'm watching sales, reviews and input from WW forums, especially this one. For now, I'm highly limited on space (two car garage that two cars go are in every night) so certain items like a jointer and planer will have to wait untilI retite and we can relocate. You may also find that space is a problem for you. The most important thing is to enjoy what you are doing.

Welcome to the "Creek." I'm sure that, like me, you'll find thia a very special place with super people ready to help you out.

[John Bailey]

My advice would be to sit tight with what you have. Build some things, and then decide. I would buy a good blade for your bandsaw. Remember to take your time with the bandsaw. I used a Craftsman radial arm saw for about 20 years. It was always going out of adjustment. If I didn't take my time to adjust it, it would be dangerous. I suspect the same is true of yours. Take the time to make sure the set-up is correct and it will work nicely.

I didn't set out to buy tools this way, but I've bought a DeWalt radial arm saw, a Parks planner and a Delta bandsaw since I built my shop. They're all over 50 years old and I really like 'em, and they were cheap and stay tuned.

Other than that, a good set of handtools - planes, chisels and handsaws - will produce a lot of good work and teach your a bunch.

Good luck, keep us posted with pictures, and welcome to the "Creek."

John

[Steve Rowe]

Doug - we all started somewhere and it looks like you have a pretty good start. Few of us started with top of the line equipment and in my case I have upgraded several times. Get what you need to do the woodworking you like to do and upgrade when you need (or want) to. From the projects you describe, I suggest:
1) Jointer - you need this as this is the first step to milling and flattening your lumber. My first jointer was a 4" which was way too small. An 8" is a really good choice for most hobbiest shops. Mine served me well for 20 years before I felt the urge to go larger. Go with a 6" if the budget requires but, you will likely regret this and end up replacing it sooner.
2) Planer - your second step in milling stock. There are a number of benchtops that are good choices.
3) Bandsaw - add when you need to. Depending on your work, it may or may not be required. You may want to consider upgrading your tablesaw at this point but that depends on if you want a bandsaw or lathe.
4) Lathe. The midi lathes are great starters. Turning is very addictive so if you get hooked, you will end up upgrading to a larger model.

Steve

[Dave Harker]

Lots of good advice above. I repeat what some have said:

Build things, and as you build things, you'll find needs for other tools - that's how to tell what to buy next - actual need for an actual project.

[Rick Potter]

:rolleyes: Doug,

As some have already said, to stay on a budget buy used.

I would definitely get another table saw. I used to buy and sell tools to make a buck. There are a lot of good Craftsman table saws out there really cheap.

Get a 10" one with a cast iron table, and a motor hanging out the back. Do not get the one with the cable drive, or direct drive. I once bought a great one for $80 with a new real 2HP motor. This type saw will do you for quite a while. When you outgrow it you can always spend more money. You should be able to get one easily for $200. Simple upgrades like the link belt and the adjusting kit (can't remember who sells it) will make the saw work great.

I assume you have the metal router table. If so, it is awfully small. You can make a simple one for about $10. There are plans everywhere...my dad used a 50 cent formica sink cutout and built a fence and base...had about five bucks in it and made a lot of picture frames and mantles with it.

One web site you might try is ....thewoodworkingchannel.com. They run videos of old and new woodworking shows all day long.

Rick Potter

[scott spencer]

Hi Doug - Welcome to SMC. There are times when buying the best tool you can afford makes sense...other tools aren't quite as critical....drills, sanders, jig saw, etc. It does make sense to avoid wasting money buying junk though, but there are alot of good quality midgrade tools that are well suited to weekend hobbyists. It's usually better to invest $100 wisely than to waste $29.99.

Certainly there are better tablesaws available than your current one, but if that one's capable of cutting wood with reasonable accuracy, there are other tools that would benefit you more than a new TS at this stage....maybe a $30 blade and a tuneup will do the trick for now. If it's not capable, then maybe it is a priority. You mentioned a jointer and planer for example...those two tools used in combination will allow you to straighten, flatten, and square up just about any board you'll encounter easily, so each project starts out with good square uniform stock. They also expand the possible sources for your wood.

IMHO, it's best to get started on some projects now, learn how you like to do things, then see what you're lacking. If you research the major purchases ahead of time, you'll recognize those super bargains that do come along occasionally...sometimes ya just gotta do it when the values are too good to pass up....20-40% savings aren't uncommon. Keeping your eyes peeled for good used equipment is also an excellent option. Other wwers are constantly upgrading tools....keep your eyes peeled for deals on the free classifieds here, on Eew-Bay, Craigslist, and your local paper...ya never know! The folks on these boards are great at alerting us about bargains.

A couple of books can be a great inexpensive addition to your arsenal too...the library may have a good selection. If not, buy a couple. Hope you get busy soon and have fun.

Scott

[Doug M Jones]

Many of you have said that the project would dictate what my next equipment would be and that seems to be the case. I currently have been lowering the blade and putting a piece of plywood on my TS to create a surface to do assembly/finishing on. I think I will build a bench next. I have a plan from FWW that is made out of plywood with a ply/MDF top that I think I can handle and it would make the next project much easier. I have a Hitachi 8 1/2 inch blade on the TS as it is difficult to find good 9" blades. I have been going to the Woodsmith Store in Des Moines for seminars and one of the salesmen said that many of the early Craftsmen 9" saws would have room for a 10" so I may try that after the current project is finished. I did buy a pair of blade stiffeners from Lee Valley that arrived Saturday but I haven't had a chance to try them out yet to see if they were worth the money. The fence on the table saw seems to be the biggest headache. I measure from the front of the blade to the fence and repeat the procedure at the back and then remeasure after it's tight to make sure. It sometimes moves. The fence itself seems to be less than 100% straight, very slight cup in the middle. I'm going to read up on fine tuning the saw and it may serve me for a while. If the bench goes well, I may do the router table next, mine is a small metal one that is difficult to do anything of any size on.

Thanks again for all the help.

[scott spencer]

Doug - Amazon has a few 9" blades available...probably 8" and 8.5" as well. A 7-1/4" circular saw blade with a 5/8" bore should work too...you'll just have less height capacity.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_hi/104-6405719-2839928?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=9%22+saw+blade

[Ted Miller]

Something I want to add, when you have "lower end" equipment and you learn how to always fine tune them to make them work perfectly. Then when you have the money to upgrade you will know how to tune the better equipment and it will work and make your life so much easier since you have the knowledge to adjust and tune just about anything...

[Brian Tuftee]

Doug,

I know exactly where you're coming from, when you lower your TS blade, take off the guard, and use it as a bench. The bench I'm working on now is something I built a few years ago, just intending it to serve as a simple plywood table for basic carpentry stuff. Now that I'm getting into 'real' woodworking, I need to upgrade that too. The whole table shakes when I try to plane anything clamped on it! Building a sturdy workbench by yourself is kind of a right-of-passage for the amateur woodworker.

There are lots of places out there with designs, but fiddle around with the plans and try to add a few things, or take ideas from one plan and incorporate them into another. It's a good way to play around with your skills. It doesn't have to be anything more complicated than a handful of 2x4s and a few sheets of plywood, or you can go wild and build it out of rock maple, with holes for bench dogs, a vise, integral drawers and shelves, the sky is the limit. You should check out http://www.freeww.com/ if you haven't already, for tons of ideas.

[Steve Beadle]

Doug, you don't have to have all the tools in the catalog to produce good work. It really depends on your skills with the tools you've got, and it also very much depends on what kinds of projects you tackle. I find that most of my projects don't require a big table saw, much as I would love to upgrade from what I've got.
As they say in another profession, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I get along fine with my 6" jointer, my 12-1/2" thickness planer, and without a drum sander--for the projects that I want to do, that is. I don't own a dedicated mortising machine, and have no desire to own one. I confess I would love have a big band saw, though!
Since I do not run a production shop, and don't have any particular deadline pressures, I enjoy the work of woodworking--especially the relative peace and quiet of hand tools. I think that way I also enjoy the wood of woodworking more, as well!
Steve

[Keith Webster]

I am repeating whats been said already but I will say it. Work with the tools you have. Once you learn that you can do it with them and you for sure enjoy doing it than you will find out that you will start buying other tools. Do not go out and just start spending lots of money on tools that you may not use. I have some that I thought "I must have this" and now they just collect dust. Lots of people start "Hobbies" but never finish them.

[Doug M Jones]

It's a what came first the chicken or the egg type of a thing. I would love to build an heirloom bench out of hard maple but laminating the table top without a jointer is a concern. I've seen some versions with a plywood/mdf top with a 1/4 piece of hardboard on top that look nice and I think would be servicable for the near future. Up until the last week or so, I had delusions of granduer and was planning to rebuild the garage to twice its size and use the extra for a shop. After penciling it out, I am now planning to increase the size of the shop in the basement and buy some decent equipment. If I need more space down the road, I can add on to the garage at that time. I have almost 1000 sqft of space in the basement that is usable unfinished basement space. The only drawback is the difficulty getting large pieces and equipment up and down and that it is broken up into 4 different rooms. Almost 1/2 is in one section so it will be a decent size shop. I'm thinking of using one 9 x 12 room as the finishing room as it won't be too dificult to get some improved ventilation for that room. The cost savings and the fact that I probably won't be building many big items brought me back to reality. I got so caught up in the dream that I forgot about paying for it and actually building projects.

I need to bypass the tool gloats for a while.;)