Chisel tie breaker help needed (Poll).

[Jerry Olexa]

In a week or so, I will have an option of purchasing my first set of higher end chisels. I can get a set of 6 Ashley Iles Amer Bench chisels OR a set of 6 Two Cherries bench chisels in a box. Both are priced a little over $100 with no appreciable difference in cost. Which would you buy if in my shoes? I've been using the usual hardware store variety, a Marple or two but ready to make the leap if worthwhile jump in quality. I'll attach a poll of the 2 choices. Thanks
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Jerry

[Joel Moskowitz]

I would buy one of each and figure out what feels good in the hand and then return the other one. The decsion is too individual to be left to a poll.

[Gil Liu]

Hi Jerry,

I've been looking a lot at bench chisels lately -- wanted to make sure you looked at the chisel review pdf in the badger pond archive -- the author liked two cherries best

I'm also considering the mhg non-boxed set from Hartville Tool -- $89 for six chisels sized in imperial units. Also, I wonder if the 15% discount for woodnet forum members might apply . . .

Good luck finding the best fit,
Gil

[Mark Stutz]

Jerry,
If you haven't held either one of these in your hand, I highly recommend you do so. At the WW show this weekend I had the chance to hold the AI for the first time. The big handles on the regular version of the AI just seemed too big for my tastes, though the Butt chisels felt good in the hand. Lee Valley had the Hirsch (supposedly the same as Two Cherries) that felt much better in my hand.
My thoughts when handling the AI for the first time were the big long handles would be ok for paring but the length was too long for dovetails, for me, since I like to hold them down on the blade to be more precise. They weren't nearly as top heavy as my Blue Chips, but just didn't feel quite right, at least for the way I work.

Mark

[John Miliunas]

Jerry, dig into that secret compartment in your billfold, grab the other mad money you have in there and treat yourself to a set of 5 of the Lie Nielsen bench chisels. You'll never look back! :D I picked up the set of long-handled, Cocobolo version a couple weeks ago. From start to finish, including setting up my stones, it took me less than an hour to flatten and hone all five! :) These things are wonderful. The long-handled version is primarily for paring, however, their regular bench chisels take nicely to a mallet. Either way, they're a wonderful tool to behold and use! Worthy of your skills!!! :) :cool:

[Tom Henry]

I have the Iles bench chisels and I am very happy with them...:D

[jonathan snyder]

I have the AI american pattern on order from Joel at Tools For Working Wood, unfortunatly, they have been out of stock since December. I have recieved the 1/8", but have not used it much yet.

Jonathan

[James Mittlefehldt]

Personally I think the best advice is what Mark and Joel advise, figure out a way to somehow handle both types and see which one fits your hand, and style of woodworking best, that includes the LN ones, which consdiering the price should not have to be fettled at all.

As Joel stated it is a personal decision and should not be trusted to the personal decisions of others. I for example use Narex chisels which I replaced my blue chip chisels with and am happy with them, but you have to decide what is best for you.

[Andrew Homan]

[...] that includes the LN ones, which consdiering the price should not have to be fettled at all.


I'm not sure what you mean, even LN chisels should be worked on, even if they are sharper than most right out of the box.

I have one AI chisel that I got from Joel and some 2 Cherries. The 2 Cherries required more work to be usable -- more back flattening, soaking in lacquer thinner... It took only 5 minutes to flatten the back of the AI (small chisel) --- BUT:
this really shouldn't be the main criterion for deciding -- it's the handle and weight balance of the chisels that you have to live with (although with more work, you can change the handles) -- and that is really a personal decision. These are all good chisels, just a question of what feels right for you to use. I think it's neat that Joel will let you get 2 different types of chisels and return one when you decide. When he gets them back in stock, I'm planning to try the longer handle AI.
-Andy

[John Miliunas]

Personally I think the best advice is what Mark and Joel advise, figure out a way to somehow handle both types and see which one fits your hand, and style of woodworking best, that includes the LN ones, which consdiering the price should not have to be fettled at all.



I agree with James that, "hands on" is the best way to determine a buying decision. Wrapping your own mitt around the chisel will quickly let you know if you'll be comfortable with a certain design.

However, I also agree with Andrew, in as much as, fettling will be required on all but maybe custom made chisels or planes. (We're talking high, HIGH end units here!) I have both, LN chisels and planes and they're all usable "out of the box". This means they're sharp. NOT honed or fettled. And why should a person pay so much and not get that service? For starters, they would cost even more. But, even more importantly, hand tools are a very personal type of tool and people tend to adopt their own practices in sharpening/honing them. Some folks like a hollow ground. Others don't. Some like a micro-bevel, others don't bother with it. Hence, if the OEM does the honing in a certain manner and charges more $$$ for it, the specific consumer may easily balk at paying more money for having something done in a manner they don't use. :) I work in the computer field and some folks are miffed that most printers don't come with the proper cable to hookup to their computer. Same story. Many of the printers sold today are replacement units and people already have the proper cables. OEM printer companies used to supply these cables at a built-in cost and folks started to gripe that they're paying for something they don't need, because they already have it. Pretty much the same thing. :) :cool:

[Mark Singer]

Jerry you should try them...or by a few of each instead of a set...for fine work the Blue Spruce are my choice...

[James Mittlefehldt]

That was my main point to, the best chisels in the world from the best manufacturer are no good to you if they do not feel comfortable. I suspect that the LN product though, would feel great in the hand, I will have to handle some at the next woodshow I go to and see what I think.

I just looked at a set of those LN's in another tread and I have to say they sure are purty.

[Dan Racette]

My instructor gave me this advice. Buy a 3/4" chisel from a few manufacturers, until you are ready to buy a set. You will have some extra chisels in a very popular size. This will allow you to (potentially) delay resharpening for a while, sine that's a pretty useful size. When you find a series you like, .

I have an Ashley Iles in the American Pattern and the Bevel edge model. I don't like the american pattern as they have a tiny handle on them. I like the larger handle of the other model.

Also, I have a set of Two Cherries, which have another type of handle. The advice of trying different types of chisels is great! I might unload the two cherries in favor of the bevel edge. (or I am going to keep shopping around.) I have been looking to pick up a blue spruce.

PM me if you are interested.

dan
And just a note....Joel's place, toolsforworkingwood is an absolute dreambook for a woodworker. Japanese models, AI, Sorby, Two cherries in plastic and wood. Great service, great everything.

[Jerry Olexa]

Jerry, dig into that secret compartment in your billfold, grab the other mad money you have in there and treat yourself to a set of 5 of the Lie Nielsen bench chisels. You'll never look back! :D I picked up the set of long-handled, Cocobolo version a couple weeks ago. From start to finish, including setting up my stones, it took me less than an hour to flatten and hone all five! :) These things are wonderful. The long-handled version is primarily for paring, however, their regular bench chisels take nicely to a mallet. Either way, they're a wonderful tool to behold and use! Worthy of your skills!!! :) :cool:

Thanks, John. Its just that I don't have your bankroll:D :) I agree the LN's are the top of the food chain but thought I would walk before I try to run. Besides, my skill level is not up with yours:) I figure the 2 I'm considering are A's and the LN's are AA+. I do plan someday to treat myself to one of their planes Oh well...

[Jerry Olexa]

Jerry you should try them...or by a few of each instead of a set...for fine work the Blue Spruce are my choice...

Mark: Yours might be the best advice of trying one or two of each. Then, later after use, get the set you prefer.Thanks

[Jerry Olexa]

Good advice. Seems to be a common thread that trying and handling of the chisels is crucial to the decision. I live in the Chicago area but, to my knowledge, there is no retailer that would carry these 2 lines of chisels. I do know Woodcraft has LN. So perhaps the advice Mark gave and several others is best: Order 1 of each maker online and use/try. Then make the decision later on the set. Forget the deal available now.. Makes sense. This old WWer (but newbie to planes/chisels) much appreciates your guidance. Thanks

[John Miliunas]

Thanks, John. Its just that I don't have your bankroll:D :) I agree the LN's are the top of the food chain but thought I would walk before I try to run. Besides, my skill level is not up with yours:) I figure the 2 I'm considering are A's and the LN's are AA+. I do plan someday to treat myself to one of their planes Oh well...

"Bankroll" my foot! It's just that I happen to get a nice discount from Job #2 on some of this stuff! :D But, as long as you're looking, don't forget about the Hirsch chisels from Lee Valley. Same price range you're looking at. That was my first "real" set of chisels and they're pretty nice. Again though, Mark may have indeed had the best suggestion for you in trying out different brands. I've got a pretty big mitt, so what feels right for me many indeed feel awkward for you! Good luck! :) :cool:

[Michael Gibbons]

I'll be honest, it's up to you cause unless they have both sets, No one can give and informed opinion. And you know that this is an unfair poll. If you listen to us and you don't like them then we are at fault.:mad: :confused:

[Jerry Olexa]

I'll be honest, it's up to you cause unless they have both sets, No one can give and informed opinion. And you know that this is an unfair poll. If you listen to us and you don't like them then we are at fault.:mad: :confused:

OUCH!!! you're right... I'll follow your advice also

[Jerry Olexa]

"Bankroll" my foot! It's just that I happen to get a nice discount from Job #2 on some of this stuff! :D But, as long as you're looking, don't forget about the Hirsch chisels from Lee Valley. Same price range you're looking at. That was my first "real" set of chisels and they're pretty nice. Again though, Mark may have indeed had the best suggestion for you in trying out different brands. I've got a pretty big mitt, so what feels right for me many indeed feel awkward for you! Good luck! :) :cool:

I have small hands and a wallet to match:) :D Thanks John, good advice. (hey, BRETT is baack!!)

[Jerry Olexa]

Its a 60/40 split with the edge for Ashley/Iles. Seems to be devoted guys for each brand. But the overiding thought is : buy one of each and try before you buy..Now where is my wallet?

[John Miliunas]

..Now where is my wallet?

Go out your back door, follow the path down to the garden. 30 paces East of the rose bush, 10 paces South and it's probably 5 feet under the large rock near the apple tree. :D Good luck in your hunt, Jerry! (I meant the chisels, not your wallet, though it is probably buried somewhere! :) ):cool:

[Robert Rozaieski]

Joel at Tools for Working Wood carries both brands. Order and try them both and return the one you like the least (like Joel said in his reply). You really need to handle them yourself before you decide. I personally bought the AI from The Best Things because I liked the feel of the London pattern handles and shorter steel (between the long AI and the AI butt chisels).

One thing to keep in mind, the Two Cherries are metric and the AI are fractional inch. It may or may not make a difference depending on the way you work. It did make a difference for me (I subscribe to the tool slaving philosophy) so I sold my Two Cherries mortise chisels and got som Ray Isles mortisers, but that's another slope altogether.

[Jerry Olexa]

Joel at Tools for Working Wood carries both brands. Order and try them both and return the one you like the least (like Joel said in his reply). You really need to handle them yourself before you decide. I personally bought the AI from The Best Things because I liked the feel of the London pattern handles and shorter steel (between the long AI and the AI butt chisels).

One thing to keep in mind, the Two Cherries are metric and the AI are fractional inch. It may or may not make a difference depending on the way you work. It did make a difference for me (I subscribe to the tool slaving philosophy) so I sold my Two Cherries mortise chisels and got som Ray Isles mortisers, but that's another slope altogether.

Rob: good reminder. The metric could be an issue in certain cases (mortising etc). Thanks

[Martin Shupe]

Jerry, dig into that secret compartment in your billfold, grab the other mad money you have in there and treat yourself to a set of 5 of the Lie Nielsen bench chisels. You'll never look back! :D I picked up the set of long-handled, Cocobolo version a couple weeks ago. From start to finish, including setting up my stones, it took me less than an hour to flatten and hone all five! :) These things are wonderful. The long-handled version is primarily for paring, however, their regular bench chisels take nicely to a mallet. Either way, they're a wonderful tool to behold and use! Worthy of your skills!!! :) :cool:

Listen to John, it will only hurt once. I had the Two Cherries, and bought the LN's and the difference is night and day. I have the entire set of 9, but they just came out with a one inch version, so now I have to buy another chisel to complete my set!:D Expensive? Yes. Worth the cost? YES, YES, YES!

Another option is to look for old Stanley 750's on ebay, but you will end up paying almost as much as the LN's.

[Doug Littlejohn]

I finally decided to go with the AI's and while I have not held the 2 Ch, I just LOVE these AIs !!! I got the ones with the big handles and I am a VERY satisfied customer.

Lately I've been working on my version of Harry's smallish (based on a CMB) portable bench. All of the joinery is with hand tools. As the DT's are 4"x3" and moritises are like 1-1/2" by 7" and 3 to 3-1/2" deep, I've been wailing away on them. Hold their edge just great and the Bubinga handles are showing no wear despite being beaten on repeatedly with a mallet!!

Thanks Joel !!

Sherwood

[Dave Anderson NH]

Thanks for the heads up on the 1" wide LN chisel Martin. I'd been on pestering Tom for about a year to make one and he told me in December that it was coming out "this spring". I love it when he's early. I place my order this noon.

[Jim Shaver, Oakville Ont]

I "had" the Two Cherries and recently sold them...... my biggest complaint was the chisels were buffed and the backs were nearly impossible to flatten on stones by hand, it took over two hours for me on the 18 mm one alone!


I went Japanese and I also maintain a set of the Blue Bench El Destructo Marples when I need to do unmentionable things with chisels.



I submit that holding one in your hands is a great way to also decide on which one you prefere....

:)

[Jerry Olexa]

Hmmmmmnn Still 60/40 And holding/using the chisel is the real criterion...

[rick fulton]

Jerry, You might want to take a look at the 8 chisel AI set (1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, 1) on ebay, item 260086083444.

[Jerry Olexa]

Jerry, You might want to take a look at the 8 chisel AI set (1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, 1) on ebay, item 260086083444.

Thanks Rick...Good tip. Expires today. Let the last minute frenzy begin.:) .......Thanks

[Jerry Olexa]

BTW A/I now pulling away in poll 66 to 33:)

[Mike Cutler]

I have the entire set of 9, but they just came out with a one inch version, so now I have to buy another chisel to complete my set!:D

I will not buy another chisel, I will not buy another chisel, I will not buy another chisel..... Yeah right.:rolleyes: Is Lie-Nielsen going to have a 10 chisel tool roll to compliment the new 1" chisel.;)

Jerry.
You really need to get them in your hands. No matter what you buy.

[Jerry Olexa]

[quote=rick fulton]Jerry, You might want to take a look at the 8 chisel AI set (1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, 1) on ebay, item 260086083444.[/quote

Rick, interesting...Auction just ended. Usual last minute flurry and bidding. Considering postage, the equivalent set could have been bought new for $13 more. Amazing how some get caught up in the frenzy. I dropped out when it exceeded my max for a value on this used set. Good experience...

[Brian Kent]

I just broke a 1/4" Two Cherries chisel while tapping (no, not pounding or prying or crunching) out 1/2" of oak between 2 cuts 1/4" apart. Now I get to find out if a) they really are that fragile, b) I have a defective chisel, and/or c) how they do in customer service.

I'll gladly accept other people's wisdom as to whether this was normal.

It broke off right at the thinnest part of the neck.

[Martin Shupe]

Jerry,

I had a set of TC's that I sold to buy my LN's.

Why? The TC's took hours and hours of fettling.

First you have to get the lacquer off, then spend a long, long time getting the backs flat, then you can finally sharpen them.

I have no idea how the AI's are, but the TC's were a lot of work.

[Martin Shupe]

I will not buy another chisel, I will not buy another chisel, I will not buy another chisel..... Yeah right.:rolleyes: Is Lie-Nielsen going to have a 10 chisel tool roll to compliment the new 1" chisel.;)

Jerry.
You really need to get them in your hands. No matter what you buy.

I think I'd wait, Mike, there is bound to be a 7/8's chisel, and then you (and I) will need an 11 chisel roll!:eek: