Learning about sliding saws... [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Art Mulder

02-07-2007, 3:14 PM

Over in the "is it uncrated" thread, Jim Becker gave a good introduction (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=519321&postcount=17) to what he liked about a sliding tablesaw.

Up until now, I've not really known much about sliding table saws. Sure, I appreciate a crosscut jig, and I understand the benefit of a Jessem sliding table... But Jim's post really opened my eyes to some of the things that make a sliding tablesaw completely different from a "standard" table saw.

So I'd like to learn a bit more about them.

I've never seen one in the flesh; You don't find them in the stores around here. Nor have I ever seen one at the various WW'ing shows here in Ontario that I have attended. (never seen Felder or MiniMax even attend those shows. Laguna does, but just with their bandsaws.) I don't think that I've just missed seeing them, I'm reasonably certain that they've just not been there.

So I turn to my friend Google, and figured that I'd find some online videos, either from Vendors or from other sources. Nope. Nada. Nothing.

Does anyone have any videos online that give a good overview/introduction of what makes a sliding tablesaw unique and/or better? (Yes I found the short article (http://www.siliconbauhaus.com/misc/Duginske.pdf) by Mark Duginske, but a video would be much, much better.)

If I made the 2hr treck to Detroit back in December, would I have been able to see one at the woodworking show there?

Other ideas?

...art (who could never ever fit one in his 11x23' shop, but a guy can still dream.)

Hoa Dinh

02-07-2007, 3:25 PM

This site (http://benchmark.20m.com/) had some useful info on sliding tables.

Jim Becker

02-07-2007, 3:26 PM

I know that MM has videos available and suspect that Felder offers the same. Over time I hope to expand the dialog from my end, but I have a bit to learn. In fact, I was talking with Sam Blasco this morning on the phone and it was the start of the learning process, for sure!

Maybe I'll also do some experimentation with some video clips along the way. I have a good video camera (with 16:9 format) and have been itching for a reason to use it in the shop.

Wayne Watling

02-07-2007, 4:41 PM

When my slider/combo arrived a month or so back I searched around on Google for hours looking for info and came up with virtually zero and to the conclusion its that ways because these type of saws are usually found in the domain of busy professionals who just dont have the motivation to write instructional material on sliders. It would be great to get a 'methods of work' type document/thread going centered around sliders not only for the woodworkers who have them but for those who just might not have a clue how effective and safe they are. Up until now I have been learning through experimentation and common sense approaches to doing things but I'm sure there are alot of interesting ways to use them that are just not that apparent.

Regards,
Wayne

Art Mulder

02-07-2007, 5:10 PM

came up with virtually zero and to the conclusion its that ways because these type of saws are usually found in the domain of busy professionals who just dont have the motivation to write instructional material on sliders.

No argument there, Wayne, but I *would* have expected the companies to have promotional videos on their websites. After all, these tools are, apparently, sufficiently different from "conventional" saws that people don't intuitively know how they work.

Look at car manufacturers - promotional videos and full colour brochures are all over their websites.

Or consider SIPS - structural insulating panels - these are new on the scene, so the manufacturers need to educate people about them. So thermapan, (http://www.thermapan.com/) for instance, has many videos on their websites explaning how to use them, and how they work, and their advantages, and so on.

And in the woodworking world... look at Stockroom Supply (http://www.stockroomsupply.com/), not a large multinational company by any stretch -- their v-drum sander is a bit out of the ordinary, so they've got videos on their website explaining how it works, and why they think it is great.

It doesn't take much, just videotape a few demonstrations at a woodshow, that's what Stockroom Supply did.

Seems like the marketing department at these companies could do a bit more work educating their potential clients.

Todd Solomon

02-07-2007, 5:17 PM

Does anyone have any videos online that give a good overview/introduction of what makes a sliding tablesaw unique and/or better? (Yes I found the short article (http://www.siliconbauhaus.com/misc/Duginske.pdf) by Mark Duginske, but a video would be much, much better.)

Hi Art,

Ditto what Jim said. Contact both Felder and Mini Max, and they'll send you some pretty compelling videos.

Most of us sliding table saw owners visited shops of people that have sliders, before purchasing. This is not only good to help understand sliding saws, but which model, options and/or brand would be best for you. A couple of ways to find people in your area:

1. The salesmen at MM and Felder may be able to find someone close to you (I know there are a number of owners in Canada).

2. Post your location right here on Sawmill Creek, to see if anyone is in your area

3. Join the MM and Felder Owner's Groups, and ask if someone is in your area. You can also search their archives for lots of useful info:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MiniMax-USA/
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/felder-woodworking/

If you have any specific questions, fire away. There's a lot of slider owners here that can help.

Todd

Wayne Watling

02-07-2007, 6:08 PM

Seems like the marketing department at these companies could do a bit more work educating their potential clients.

During the whole purchase process my impression was that they (canadian branch) are use to dealing with larger companies and organisations that don't necessailiy need alot of hand holding or introductory type material, they are not use to hobbists purchasing this type of equipment. Having said that I know the sales guys made a big effort to ensure I was happy with the equipment and I had everything I needed but I did get the sense they were use to dealing with organisations rather than a hobbist, I think this is going to change in the near future.

A series of 1 hour long instructional videos on each piece of equipment would work wonders for sales in my opinion, I know Minimax USA has one featuring Mark Duginske but its not that indepth, I know I watched it about 10 times while I was considering the purchase and always felt the need for more detailed material.

Wayne

Al Killian

02-07-2007, 6:14 PM

I agree with Todd. Some tool companies will locate owners close to you so you can try them out and learn first hand how that owners feels about.

Richard Keller

02-07-2007, 6:15 PM

You may get to see SCM / MiniMax at the Toronto show here coming up shortly (four weeks?)

Just rumours, but keep your eyes open.

Richard.

Art Mulder

02-07-2007, 7:29 PM

Ditto what Jim said. Contact both Felder and Mini Max, and they'll send you some pretty compelling videos.
...
If you have any specific questions, fire away. There's a lot of slider owners here that can help.

Hey Todd, thanks for the offer, I'll keep that in mind if I'm ever more serious about it.

And I take your (and Al's) point about the video. I've heard good things about those companies and have no doubt that they would be helpfull if I were to contact them. But I am not (currently) in the market for the saw -- I just am curious to learn more about them, so I'm not going to do that.

I still think these companies are just hurting themselves if they consider that (giving out videos only if I ask) to be enough. By the time someone contacts the company, they've probably already gone a long way to deciding to buy. The person is already a long way towards being hooked as a customer. That is pretty late in the process. Instead, by putting videos on the website (or letting a store distribute free DVD's like Leigh does through Lee Valley Tools) you get people earlier in the process. You get them when they're just curious and wondering.

Look at all the talk here about Sawstop. Imagine what folks would think about the company if the only way to see a demonstration of it's technology was via calling them to ask for a video, or through seeing them at a show. Instead, they've got videos up on their website, available for anyone who is even remotely curious to download and watch. (Not to mention the videos up on the Wood magazine website.)

I'm NOT a trained sales or marketing guy, but even I know that you need to advertise and get the word out.

(whew, I'm not meaning to argue. I'm just trying to convey my point that I think these companies would definitely benefit if they do more to educate ANY AND ALL woodworkers, and not just people who are 9/10's of the way decided on purchasing.)

And kudos to Rojek USA (http://www.rojekusa.com/) - I received a PM pointing me at their website, which does have some videos demonstrating the product.

You may get to see SCM / MiniMax at the Toronto show here coming up shortly (four weeks?)

That would be great. Unfortunately, there is no list of exhibitors (yet) at the show website (http://www.canadianhomeworkshop.com/show/home.shtml). But I'll most likely be there, so I hope to see a live demo.

Cliff Rohrabacher

02-07-2007, 7:33 PM

If ya lived near by I'd say come on over and I'll let you test drive mine.

The Felder people maintain a whole shop in Delaware just to let you try 'em out . The MiniMax guy will try to find you someone near you who might let you take a test drive. I am sure that the felder guys will also if you just ask.

I bought my saw after almost a year of research. I started out looking at Powermatics and Deltas but eventually got to sliders. I ended up getting a nice austrian slider saw and I am very happy with it. And I bought it sight unseen.

My poor old conventional saw just sits in the corner where I shoved it and weeps. I may turn it into a router table some day.

I can say this: If you buy a Felder, Hammer, or Minimax sight unseen you won't end up with remorse.

Be sure to get a table long enough to lay an 8' sheet of ply on and rip with the sliding table. ALso be sure to get the re-potionable extension table that you see on those sliders with that huge wing on the side.

Also consider whether you want a dado capacity. I don't think MM has it but I know Felder and Hammer do. Ya gotta order the saw with it.
The Felder Dado head is the sweetest cutting dado this sice of anything. It better be at $400.00

Also consider getting scoring. It's not too often I use it but when I do it's sweet.

Do not take any sales person at his word when they tell you about how the prices are all fixed overseas. That's a load of hooey. They do it to discourage you from negotiating. They haven't got tons of room as we are paying for all those benefits the Europeans get, but there is room.

And of course there is Grizzly the first American company with the nerve to make a slider.

Dunno why everyone doesn't offer one.

Wayne Watling

02-07-2007, 8:09 PM

Also consider whether you want a dado capacity. I don't think MM has it but I know Felder and Hammer do. Ya gotta order the saw with it. The Felder Dado head is the sweetest cutting dado this sice of anything. It better be at $400.00

Also consider getting scoring. It's not too often I use it but when I do it's sweet.

The Tecnomax (was Minimax) slider/combo 410 Elite came standard with dado capacity and scoring blade.

Regards

Jim Becker

02-07-2007, 8:23 PM

Also consider whether you want a dado capacity. I don't think MM has it but I know Felder and Hammer do. Ya gotta order the saw with it.
The MM S315 WS has dado capablity standard...and no special tooling is required as it has a 5/8" arbor. I'll be using my existing Forrest DadoKing. Many of the MM combo machines share this capablity or are orderable with it. (I'm just adding this information to keep it complete in this thread)

Also consider getting scoring. It's not too often I use it but when I do it's sweet.
Again, this is standard on most, if not all the MM saws. (I didn't check that out to confirm) That said, now that I've seen it in action, the scoring blade is going to get a lot of use in my work!

Jay Brewer

02-07-2007, 8:27 PM

Hi Art, Laguna offers a DVD of their products, not the greatest but shows some of what a slider will do. Mini Max video wasnt very informative at all, unless you want to build a table leg. Maybe someone should come out with a indepth video on set up and using a slider, but havent seen one yet.

Jameel Abraham

02-07-2007, 8:47 PM

Thanks Art for starting this thread. You've asked more eloquently what I apparentlly failed at over in Jim's thread.

I recently bought a Bridgewood Italian-made bandsaw and got the Mini-max and Laguna videos in the mail during my research process. I didnt even pay attention to the combo and sliding TS sections when I got the MM DVD, but just this morning as I was reading about Jim's new saw, a light bulb went off and I remembered seeing this machine being demonstrated by Duginske. So I watched it again. I'll be completely honest, I'll never look at my Unisaw the same way again. All of a sudden it just seems like something to build jigs around in order for it to actually be useful. I used the miter gauge today, that tiny, toy-like accessory that I now just have to laugh at. I mean really, when I look at the manufacturers ads mentioning the new improved "t-slot" miter gauge it's really quite comical. Is the only real improvement to the cabinet saw in the past several decades is that they milled an extra groove in the slot and screwed a washer to the end of that Fisher-Price-style attachment?

If I may also say, why is it that the Europeans seem to be getting the tool and machine thing right, and we Americans are still basically producing just good-enough designs? After seeing these machines is action, I had a real "no duh" moment. When you really think about it, the Unisaw-style table saw is still basically a portable circular saw mounted under a table. (I ought to know, this was my "first" table saw) Does it really make sense to manufacture a machine that, aside from basic ripping, need some pretty serious jigging to do the most basic cuts?

Sorry for venting here about this, but over that past week these issues have really been in forefront of my mind.

To elaborte further, is it me, or does the European jointer-planer combo just kick the pants off your typical setup? I've had a 6" jointer and a 12" planer for years, but until I saw these combo machines that plane AND joint 12" I didn't realize how stupid my setup is. I mean honestly, what the heck am I doing with a 6" jointer? My bandsaw can resaw 12", my planer can handle 12.5", but my jointer only 6"? I feel like I'm driving a car that only has a 250hp engine, but only 1st and 2nd gear.

So I guess in the end I'm forced to live with these bass-ackwards machines that make NO sense, until I can afford some REAL woodworking machines. Well, at least I got the bandsaw right. Looking towards the future....

Todd Solomon

02-07-2007, 9:24 PM

To elaborte further, is it me, or does the European jointer-planer combo just kick the pants off your typical setup? I've had a 6" jointer and a 12" planer for years, but until I saw these combo machines that plane AND joint 12" I didn't realize how stupid my setup is. I mean honestly, what the heck am I doing with a 6" jointer? My bandsaw can resaw 12", my planer can handle 12.5", but my jointer only 6"? I feel like I'm driving a car that only has a 250hp engine, but only 1st and 2nd gear.

Agreed Jameel, I think the euro jointer-planers are as compelling as the sliding table saws. You can get a 12" jointer/planer with a quick-change cutterhead, starting at about $3K for the Hammer (Felder's entry-level machine). For a bit more, you can get the 12" MM, which has the Tersa cutterhead (my favorite cutterhead). And these machines are high quality. Because they share a common cutterhead and motor, this allows them to build top quality at a relatively reasonable price. And you save lots of space in your shop- a precious commodity for most of us.

Here's the thing- My Grizzly 12" Ultimate Jointer is about $3K new. Add the price of a 12 or 13" lunchbox planer, and you're in euro jointer-planer price territory. Recently, there've been a crop of lower-priced 12" jointers popping up, but I doubt that they will be of the quality of a euro jointer-planer (or my 12" Grizz).

I've tried separates, but have come full circle back around to the euro jointer-planer as the best solution for my needs. I sprung for a Felder 16" jointer-planer with the Tersa cutterhead, to be picked up at the IWF in Las Vegas in July. Like Jim said, sweet deals can be made on show machines.

Todd

Gary Curtis

02-07-2007, 10:16 PM

Ever since I uncrated my General 350 with a sliding table, I've wondered how to learn everything about it. In November, Kelly Mehler came to California where he conducted a 2-day seminar at the Sacramento showroom of Felder. Kelley owns a Felder.

I was tied up and couldn't make it, so I sent him an email. Does anyone make a book on using a sliding table saw? He said there aren't any.

If you buy a copy of his Table Saw book, you'll see the Felder he owns in a few photographs. He devotes about 1.5 pages to it.

Something more thorough would sure have helped me during a difficult selection process a year ago. All we can do is wait and hope.

Gary Curtis

Jim Becker

02-07-2007, 10:24 PM

Jameel, your comments about the jointer and planer are exactly the thoughts I had a few years ago after I spent a day (literally running...'cause it's so big and I only had one day to "do it all") at IWF in Atlanta. I had been invited down by WOOD Magazine as I was doing some writing for their online resources at the time as well as helping moderate the forums...and they were having a party. FF Miles got me there and I had a great time.

Anyway, I always bemoaned the 6" jointer's inability to flatten the kind of lumber I prefer to work with...wide and beautiful. The thought of ripping it up to flatten the faces was abhorrent to me! At that show, I "discovered" the jointer/planer combos. I have no doubt that Michael Kahn at Mini Max caught "that look" in my eyes 'cause he gave me a shout occasionally just to check in. And then one day, Jim Strain called...with an incredible deal on a show machine. It's been in my shop for a few years now and I love it. Mine is mid-sized at 14" (actually...350mm or just under 14") which had longer beds than the 12" machines. It's wonderful being able to slap wide boards on there, make them flat and true and then thickness them for the project at hand. Table tops have less glue-ups, figured material has less tear-out 'cause I can run through at an angle easily and the Tersa knives make wonderful cuts and change out really fast. (double sided, indexed and disposable...not to mention really sharp) The changeover from jointing to planing or back take about minute and a half...and that's without the fancy motorized table that some of the high-end machines have!

lou sansone

02-08-2007, 4:49 AM

What I have found with owning my slider ( 315ws) is that as time goes on you get more and more experienced with its use. It would be nice to have a training video, but just using it also provides a fair amount to training in itself. I waited until I had used the saw for about 9 months before posting about it, because I wanted to be able to say personally from experience that they are fantastic machines. I highly recommend them.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=47797

lou

Jim Becker

02-08-2007, 9:45 AM

I just got a call from Dain @ mm who read this thread...they are putting their first video online "today". While it's for a boring machine, there is a lot more planned...including user submissions if they are made available to them.

Todd Solomon

02-08-2007, 10:36 AM

I...they are putting their first video online "today". While it's for a boring machine, there is a lot more planned...

Jim, how could you call anything that they make "boring?" These machines are as exciting as they get! ;) :D

Cheezy, I know, but just couldn't pass it up.

Jim Becker

02-08-2007, 10:49 AM

Jim, how could you call anything that they make "boring?" These machines are as exciting as they get! ;) :D

Cheezy, I know, but just couldn't pass it up.
I used that line with him on the phone...and after a chuckle, Dain skillfully detailed how a boring machine wasn't boring at all...LOL! :D BTW, you should ask him for the link to the video of him on Leno...

Joe Jensen

02-08-2007, 11:55 AM

Agreed Jameel, I think the euro jointer-planers are as compelling as the sliding table saws. You can get a 12" jointer/planer with a quick-change cutterhead, starting at about $3K for the Hammer (Felder's entry-level machine). For a bit more, you can get the 12" MM, which has the Tersa cutterhead (my favorite cutterhead). And these machines are high quality. Because they share a common cutterhead and motor, this allows them to build top quality at a relatively reasonable price. And you save lots of space in your shop- a precious commodity for most of us.

Here's the thing- My Grizzly 12" Ultimate Jointer is about $3K new. Add the price of a 12 or 13" lunchbox planer, and you're in euro jointer-planer price territory. Recently, there've been a crop of lower-priced 12" jointers popping up, but I doubt that they will be of the quality of a euro jointer-planer (or my 12" Grizz).

I've tried separates, but have come full circle back around to the euro jointer-planer as the best solution for my needs. I sprung for a Felder 16" jointer-planer with the Tersa cutterhead, to be picked up at the IWF in Las Vegas in July. Like Jim said, sweet deals can be made on show machines.

Todd
Todd makes good points in favor of combo machines. Here are something else to consider.

What is your workflow? Here is how I prepare stock to have perfectly flat and straight stock.
1) I rough cut un planed stock to rough length and width, I do this for each piece I need.
2) I use the jointer to make one face flat
3) I use the planer to make the board consisten thickness and flat on two sides
4) I use the jointers to make one edge straight
5) I use the saw to rip to final width
6) I cut one end square
7) I cut the other end to final length

With my workflow, I would have to switch from planer to jointer a ton, or I would have to significantly modify my workflow. In the past I used to surface the wood for the whole job, and then cut the boards I needed from it. When I used this workflow I would still get some warping when I ripped boards out of the already surfaced stock. If I were severly space constrained, I'd modify my workflow. With enough space for both machines, I'd stick with what I'm doing...joe

Jim Becker

02-08-2007, 12:36 PM

TWith my workflow, I would have to switch from planer to jointer a ton, or I would have to significantly modify my workflow.
Seems to me you only need to flip two steps...once you have a face flat, you can also square one edge to it before you change over to thicknessing. But even there, the change over takes about a minute and a half, and that is without a fancy motor driven planer bed. I leave mine setup for jointer purposes most of the time and only do thickness planing in batches--keeping in mind movement as you brought that up, outside of occasional "mental screw-ups"...

But it's nice to have choices and I most certainly agree that workflow is very important when it comes to tool choices. Since I bounce between the saw and the jointer a lot, I prefer them to be on separate platforms, not to mention it fits physically into my shop better that way.

Todd Solomon

02-08-2007, 1:01 PM

Todd makes good points in favor of combo machines. Here are something else to consider.

What is your workflow? Here is how I prepare stock to have perfectly flat and straight stock.
1) I rough cut un planed stock to rough length and width, I do this for each piece I need.
2) I use the jointer to make one face flat
3) I use the planer to make the board consisten thickness and flat on two sides
4) I use the jointers to make one edge straight
5) I use the saw to rip to final width
6) I cut one end square
7) I cut the other end to final length

With my workflow, I would have to switch from planer to jointer a ton, or I would have to significantly modify my workflow. In the past I used to surface the wood for the whole job, and then cut the boards I needed from it. When I used this workflow I would still get some warping when I ripped boards out of the already surfaced stock. If I were severly space constrained, I'd modify my workflow. With enough space for both machines, I'd stick with what I'm doing...joe

Hi Joe,

I don't see why you would need to switch from planer to jointer unnecessarily often. I believe your workflow is already optimum for a combo J/P. Let's look at sequential J/P jobs, back-to-back.

First job (re-using your step numbers from above):
2) J/P is already in jointer mode, no switch necessary
3) J/P switched to planer mode
4) J/P switched back to jointer mode

Second job
2) no switch
3) switch to planer mode
4) switch to jointer mode

Etc...

There's no way to make it more optimal than two switches per job. If you were to rearrange the sequence to face joint, then edge joint, then plane, you still would need to switch the machine back to jointer mode before starting the next job. So, you really have flexibility in the sequence that you work.

On rare occasion, when surfacing lumber, it'll warp after a few passes of planing. In this case, you do need to switch back to jointing to re-flatten, then continue planing. The combo J/Ps are at a disadvantage here.

On my previous J/P, I found the switchover time to be not a big deal. If it is important to someone, they can order motorized planer table movement (even CNC control, where you set the exact thickness). The manual hand-crank is not a major inconvenience to me at all, though.

In fact, when I ordered my Felder J/P, I tried to order it with manual movement of the planer table. But because the majority of Felder owners get Powerdrive, they sold me a Powerdrive for less than I could've bought the manual unit. I guess it costs them less to make the same Powerdrive model at a higher volume, than to make a lower volume manual unit, even though it has less parts.

My motivation for getting the combo jointer/planer was less about saving space than it was to get the high quality Tersa cutterhead, solid construction, and wide jointing width. I like having seperates too, but these other advantages make the combo J/Ps really beneficial. But, just like sliding saws, they are pricey. They're not the right choice for everyone. I think that they make a lot of sense for someone that is looking to step up to 12+" wide jointers and bigger-than-lunchbox planers, even financially.

Todd

Art Mulder

02-08-2007, 2:29 PM

Seems to me you only need to flip two steps...once you have a face flat, you can also square one edge to it before you change over to thicknessing.

Wait... I thought with your slider you would/could just straight line cut the piece and eliminate the edge-jointing step

(or even if you want to still joint it, you might first straight line it, since one cut is quicker than umpteen jointer passes, if you have a board that is rough on the edge.)

Jim Becker

02-08-2007, 3:46 PM

Wait... I thought with your slider you would/could just straight line cut the piece and eliminate the edge-jointing step

Very possible to do that--especially based on my little test on Sunday. My jointer is and always has been far more important to me for flattening than edging. But then again, sometimes a quick pass to "take off a smidge" at the jointer is a valid operation. Many ways to work!

Jameel Abraham

02-08-2007, 10:18 PM

Agreed Jameel, I think the euro jointer-planers are as compelling as the sliding table saws. You can get a 12" jointer/planer with a quick-change cutterhead, starting at about $3K for the Hammer (Felder's entry-level machine). For a bit more, you can get the 12" MM, which has the Tersa cutterhead (my favorite cutterhead). And these machines are high quality. Because they share a common cutterhead and motor, this allows them to build top quality at a relatively reasonable price. And you save lots of space in your shop- a precious commodity for most of us.

Here's the thing- My Grizzly 12" Ultimate Jointer is about $3K new. Add the price of a 12 or 13" lunchbox planer, and you're in euro jointer-planer price territory. Recently, there've been a crop of lower-priced 12" jointers popping up, but I doubt that they will be of the quality of a euro jointer-planer (or my 12" Grizz).

I've tried separates, but have come full circle back around to the euro jointer-planer as the best solution for my needs. I sprung for a Felder 16" jointer-planer with the Tersa cutterhead, to be picked up at the IWF in Las Vegas in July. Like Jim said, sweet deals can be made on show machines.

Todd

Great info Todd. I think our minds work alike in this aspect. Gonna have to sell something to get one of these units in the next few years. In the meantime I'll have to live my Dewalt lunchbox and Jet 6". I can't beleive I'm actully coming to this point. Not 10 years ago I couldnt even afford a jointer, I flattened all my stock (yes, ALL) with my pre-WWII Stanley #7 then passed it through the planer for thickness. The shop floor was nothing but shavings. Now I'm actually complaining about having a jointer. In actuality, I STILL flatten wider-than-6" panels by hand since ripping them to within 6" goes against every fiber of my being! I'm only 33, so I shouldn't be complaining.

Jim Becker

02-08-2007, 10:19 PM

I STILL flatten wider-than-6" panels by hand since ripping them to within 6" goes against every fiber of my being! I'm only 33, so I shouldn't be complaining.

Bless you, my son!! Ripping a fine board is a sinful thing in my book!

Jameel Abraham

02-08-2007, 10:34 PM

Now you made me feel guilty! I probably have done it once or twice with some average wood. Okay, confession over. :rolleyes:

Jim Becker

02-08-2007, 10:45 PM

Now you made me feel guilty! I probably have done it once or twice with some average wood. Okay, confession over.

So have I...but not lately! :D

Todd Solomon

02-09-2007, 1:39 AM

Great info Todd. I think our minds work alike in this aspect. Gonna have to sell something to get one of these units in the next few years. In the meantime I'll have to live my Dewalt lunchbox and Jet 6". I can't beleive I'm actully coming to this point. Not 10 years ago I couldnt even afford a jointer, I flattened all my stock (yes, ALL) with my pre-WWII Stanley #7 then passed it through the planer for thickness. The shop floor was nothing but shavings. Now I'm actually complaining about having a jointer. In actuality, I STILL flatten wider-than-6" panels by hand since ripping them to within 6" goes against every fiber of my being! I'm only 33, so I shouldn't be complaining.

They're worth waiting for. I thought about buying my Felder J/P for years before finally having the green to do it. The Mini Maxes are great machines too.

I've been really enjoying my hand planes, lately. I had a 20" wide glue-up that wouldn't fit on my jointer, so I took out the jack and jointer planes. It was a kick- I had it dead flat in a few minutes. Ironic, since I'll rarely have to do this anymore, once the Felder comes.

Todd

Joe Jensen

02-13-2007, 5:10 PM

Seems to me you only need to flip two steps...once you have a face flat, you can also square one edge to it before you change over to thicknessing. But even there, the change over takes about a minute and a half, and that is without a fancy motor driven planer bed. I leave mine setup for jointer purposes most of the time and only do thickness planing in batches--keeping in mind movement as you brought that up, outside of occasional "mental screw-ups"...

But it's nice to have choices and I most certainly agree that workflow is very important when it comes to tool choices. Since I bounce between the saw and the jointer a lot, I prefer them to be on separate platforms, not to mention it fits physically into my shop better that way.

I currently jump from planer to jointer constantly. With a combo machine I'd have to batch the jointing and planing. I'm not saying that's bad, just pointing out that "I" would have to change my current workflow...joe