Help a Newbie

[Ed Parkyn]

Hello All!
Before going to an Epilog distributor for a demonstration, I wonder if anyone could give me pointers, pro and con, that will aid me in making an informed purchase decision. I would also appreciate operating tips with various materials. My background is in metal and wood working with training in CNC machining. I also have a few years experience with several computer graphics programs. The last few years have seen me work exclusively behind a desk and I've decided to get away from that to return to working with my hands again. I thought that starting out part-time with a 12 x 24 table, 20 to 35 watts would be the best. It would also have a very small footprint in my garage so having to re-arrange my other machine positions would not pose a problem at all. Once again your help is greatly appreciated.

Ed

[Phyllis Meyer]

Hi Ed,

We still consider ourselves a newbie our laser is 10 months old and we have an Epilog Legend 36EXT, 35 watt (bed size is: 36x24). I'm not sure what part of the country you are in but here in Wisconsin our salesman came to OUR HOME and demonstrated. He also asked us to have any items we wanted to laser on such as: wine glass, mirror, wood of all kinds, plus he came with an array of materials to laser on. Definately ask for the demonstration at your home/garage!!!

We probably should have gotten a higher wattage, but it does what it needs to right now. Many of us folks here on the forum would be happy to share suppliers lists (I think there is actually a post of them). This forum was an absolute Blessing to us when we first started and continues to be. Good luck with your new adventure and with having the wood-working, CNC skills, you will do just fine. Starting a business is not easy and it's quite an undertaking. We always willing to talk to people just starting out because we know what you are going through. You can PM us also. Don't forget to ask about warranty, technical support,...ask every question you can think of! Check with your insurance company. Ours would not carry the business part, and we had to get a separate policy from a different company. Ask questions here on the forum, folks that have been doing this a long time will answer!

Sincerely,

Phyllis:)

[Mark Fitzmorris]

Ed,

Before going to meet with the sales person decide what type of material you plan on working with and what you except the machine to do for you. I would bring some of that material with you and have them show you what the machine really does. Many on here advise to get as much wattage ase you can afford, it is however important to get the wattage that you need for the type of material and processes that you will actually do without spending too much on an engraver. I do lots of wood, glass and marble and my 25 watt laserpro is more then adequate for that! If however you plan on vector cutting thicker material you may need more wattage. Most of the big name lasers of similar wattage will do pretty much the same quality work so you need to concentrate on who will give you the best deal and the best support. When you go for the demonstrations make sure that you take notes and try to include in those notes what settings the sales rep was useing and how fast it did the job, this will help you not only when comparing different models but will also help when you have gotten your machine and are setting up your own jobs. The need for good support cannot be overstated! Find out from the company the degree of suport that they offer, including their policies on sending replacement parts and just what is covered under warranty and for how long. There are many good companies out there selling lasers but there sometimes are vast differences in the support that is offered.

Make sure you have a business plan which includes how and where you plan on marketing your product. A laser engraver cann be a great tool to compliment a bussiness but it is not a "turn key" type of endevour.

[Dave Jones]

Take some of your own images. A rep always has images that have been picked because they look great when lasered. But how do your images look when they try to laser them? Take a selection of different types of images (photos, line drawings/vectors, etc...)

[Dave Fifield]

Hi Ed,

Welcome to the SMC forums. You will find lots of advice and hints/tips here. Remember, there's no such thing as a stupid question. Ask away, but also make use of the fine search tool that the forum has.

If I were you, I would NOT put my laser in the garage with your other woodworking tools. I would keep it indoors in a nice clean, dust-free environment. It's a precision instrument that needs to be kept scrupulously clean in order to function correctly. You will need to plan for a 4" exhaust pipe to take the fumes outside, with the extractor blower on the far end of the pipe (i.e. outside).

Cheers,

[Mike Hood]

Once you've gotten a demo from the Epilog guy... get his best price and talk to Univesal and Pinnacle salesmen.

You'll be shocked at how much "wiggle room" there is available in price. I got my Pinnacle ZX 40W (38" bed) for a couple thousand less than Epilog could offer.

Great customer service as well.

[Jim Good]

Dave,

Does the blower need to be placed where there will not be temperature extremes? Can I put it in my unheated portion of the attic?

The reason I'm asking is that I am in the process of finishing out 2 bedrooms and a 3/4 bath in the attic (with central heat and air conditioning, of course!) and one of the bedroom will house my laser and everything else for the business. I would like to place the blower somewhere besides the bedroom! The easiest thing to do would be to place it on the other side of the wall in the unheated portion of the attic. Can it handle the cold winter temperatures and the hot temperatures during the summer months? I'd like to do the same thing with the air assist, too.

Any thoughts!?!

Thanks!

Jim

[Ed Parkyn]

Thanks to you all for your help. After posting my inquiry, I immediately started to look over everything I could at this forum. Your advice and experiences are like gold to me. Each day I take a few more steps towards startup with a "slow but steady" attitude toward planning. Obviously it must be almost rock solid to make a successful go of it.
It's getting late out here on the West Coast (3 miles from the beach) so I'm going to call it a day. I'll be in touch and let you know how things progress.

Ed Parkyn

[Bruce Volden]

Dave,

Does the blower need to be placed where there will not be temperature extremes? Can I put it in my unheated portion of the attic?

The reason I'm asking is that I am in the process of finishing out 2 bedrooms and a 3/4 bath in the attic (with central heat and air conditioning, of course!) and one of the bedroom will house my laser and everything else for the business. I would like to place the blower somewhere besides the bedroom! The easiest thing to do would be to place it on the other side of the wall in the unheated portion of the attic. Can it handle the cold winter temperatures and the hot temperatures during the summer months? I'd like to do the same thing with the air assist, too.

Any thoughts!?!

Thanks!

Jim
Jim


I once had my exhaust hanging outside my shop, all seemed to go well until one cold day. I turned the exhaust blower on and it started "rattling" TERRIBLY! I tore into it to find that over time frost had built up on the blades and unbalanced them :eek: I now have the blower more centrally (noisy) located. Then again, I don't believe Alabama gets quite as cold as South Dakota (-8F currently :rolleyes: )


Bruce

[Mike Null]

Jim:

My former employer had (have) their blower on the roof of the building and it held up well in all kinds of Missouri weather.

[Tom Majewski]

Hi Jim,
The exhaust and the compressor should be fine in the attic. Where the exhaust pipe exits the house, put a flapper and a screen on to keep the nesting insects out. If the air compressor is in the attic you're going to need a remote switch and plenty of air hose naturally, but also a good moisture trap in the line as you'll be compressing humid air from the attic in the summer.

[Jim Good]

Sounds like I'll try the attic. I can wire a remote switch into the bedroom. That should be easy (with the help of my electrician friend!). I'll check and see where the best place will be to exit the exhaust.

I also need to do something to quite down the air-assist. It's next to the laser and is annoying! I think I'm going to build a box for it to quiet it down some. Any better ideas?

Mike, the homeowners association would not be happy seeing my compressor on the roof!!! Even if it is in the back of the house! It is nice to know that the compressor can handle that type of environment, though.

Bruce, stay warm!!! It's probably around 35-40F right now so it's not too bad outside. I agree that South Dakota has a little rougher winter than down here in Alabama!:D Sorry!!!!!!

For Ed, I've got an Epilog mini24 - 35 watts and I've enjoyed it. You'll always want more power and a larger table size (mine is 12x24") but it'll do most things. I've been pleased with my purchase. Everyone is right, you can negotiate. Work on free shipping and get them to throw in the air-assist and exhaust blower in addition to a reduction in the price of the laser. Work'em!

Thanks for the help.

Jim

[Ed Maloney]

I asked for an extended 2 year warranty and stand to be throw into the deal for free and got it.

[Craig Hogarth]

My wife and I are also looking at the epilog, but want the least expensive route. I couldn't make it to the demonstration, but my wife went last Tuesday and was quite impressed.

I see a lot of people here say they would like more power. We're looking at the 25w Mini 18 and the majority of our stuff will be glass and wood, with the occasion rubber stamp. However, we don't want to rule anything out. With the 25w, what materials will be out of our scope?

Also, what other types of freebies or discounts were you able to get with your engraver?

BTW, this is a great forum. Most of the stuff is well above my level of knowledge, but threads like this are great for us newbies. Thanks!!

[Vicky Orsini]

In all honesty, you can probably look at the other manufacturers' larger tables for about the same amount of money. When I was looking, I didn't even consider anything with less than a 12X24, if only because that's the standard size for sheet material. When we were looking, the 30watt Universal, LaserPro and Trotec were all in the same price range. Epilog only had the Mini18 at that price - the Mini24 was slightly more expensive. Ask Universal about their VersaLaser - I believe the lower wattages are probably in the same price range as the Mini18, and I believe you get the 12X24 table at least. You really should consider all of them, though. You just might end up with more than you originally thought you could afford. As for what materials you'll be missing - you'll probably handle the same materials for raster engraving and vector cutting, it'll just be slower than - say - a 45 watt.

By the way, you might want to do a search for the Mini18 on this forum. I believe there was a thread not too long ago that discussed lens availability on the different models, and I think the Mini18 was more limited in that regard.

[Craig Hogarth]

I've spoken with a gentleman at Universal previously and they were a few thousand cheaper. I'll definately check into the the others you mentioned.

[Ed Maloney]

Don't forget to figure in all the add-ons that most of the vendors charge extra for.

[Craig Hogarth]

In all honesty, you can probably look at the other manufacturers' larger tables for about the same amount of money. When I was looking, I didn't even consider anything with less than a 12X24, if only because that's the standard size for sheet material.

Thanks Vicki. I just got back in touch with my Versalaser salesman and I think that's the route may end up going with.

Stupid questions, but......what do you mean by "standard size for sheet material?" What materials are you refering to? You cannot buy them smaller?

[Vicky Orsini]

Stupid questions, but......what do you mean by "standard size for sheet material?" What materials are you refering to? You cannot buy them smaller? As I've been told many times, there's no such thing as a stupid question. ;) I'm referring to sheets of laserable plastic, aluminum, brass, acrylic, etc... - generally speaking, these come in 12X24 or 24X48 sheets from the major suppliers. I've never seen them offered any smaller. The suppliers will chop the material for you, most of the time, but there is an extra cost. :rolleyes:

[Brian Robison]

I've got a Mini 18 and Epilog have been great. If I was to do it again I'd get a 24 because of the plastic sizes. My next laser will be larger and have MORE POWER. The 25w laser doesn't have enough to mark brass or aluminum. Part marking was the reason I got into the laser business.
You may get a laser for one thing and end up doing another like I have.

[Tom Buzz Bernard]

Craig,
Here is my 2 cents, coupled with a few years experience. Vicky is right!

I get asked this question all the time. Minimum 12 X 24 table and as much power as you can afford. (I say a minimum of 35 watts) I do not know if pricing can be allowed on this forum, but you have received good advise on kicking the tires for the best price. Last year there were some pretty good corporate discounts that came out for different lasers.

The trade show season starts with the ARA vegas show this month, I'm sure the discounts might follow.

In some instances certain dealers will not negotiate as well as others. I would like to see you become successful. If you get a laser that is too small, with low power it will limit your ability. Of course if you have a specific need and it only requires the power of a 25 watt, then that's different.

I take that back GET MORE POWER! :cool:

[Craig Hogarth]

Craig,
The trade show season starts with the ARA vegas show this month, I'm sure the discounts might follow.


My wife told me about that. The epilog guy mentioned it to her. Would it be beneficial for me to go to this? If so, should I stay for the whole thing or just the day?

[Tom Buzz Bernard]

Craig,
If you plan to buy a Laser, then the ARA show can be very rewarding. The Vegas show is the largest for this industry. All Lasers will be represented (at least the ones you want to know about) and most of the substrate people will be there. www.ara.org (http://www.ara.org)
If you are looking for a certain substrate at the best price, you can always throw it out to the forum and you will be given advise on who to call.

You will need at least one full day if not part of a second. Remember we are salesman trying to sell our wares and we can be long winded ;) I say plan on two days minimum.

The NBM shows will be at 5 locations, but the laser section is the smallest part of that show (but growing) www.nbm.com (http://www.nbm.com)