Rikon Band Saw Post Honeymoon

[Curt Harms]

I thought I'd post a follow up to a previous post. I had already documented the motor issue. It was handled well and sounds like I wasn't the only one with a motor issue. The saw will work fine on a dedicated 120 circuit but it seems to start quicker on a 240 volt circuit. The bearing guides are OK but I think the practical minimum blade width is 1/4". The saw is rated for 1/8" blades but I don't see how the bearing guides could run behind the gullets of an 1/8" blade and still do anything. I don't know if the Carter guide for narrow blades could be installed or not. I wonder if someone will come up with an after market coolblock-type guides to fit these saws so the blade can run inside the guide. A 3/4" blade works fine but the lower thrust bearing has to be moved right against the table trunnion assembly in order for the band to be centered on the wheels. The speed change mechanism works as advertised. The driven pulley is part of the lower wheel so there's no way to change driven pulleys as can be done with other saws. Any motor swap down the road would still need to use the poly v belt.

I did have to adjust the blade tensioning mechanism to properly tension T'wolf 111" blades. It was easy enough but not documented in the manual. I'm sure had I contacted Tech Support they would have helped.

One item of business was a mobile base. I had an unused Delta mobile base on which the lifting cam mechanism had worn so the caster wouldn't come level and the swiveling caster didn't swivel well at all. As I, like many woodworkers am cheap...er thrifty I came up with this. It cost me a few bolts and nuts, the rest came from rummaging.
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I laminated 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood and fastened it to the 4 forward facing bolts of the Delta mobile base. The hinges are mortiseless hinges I had in a junk drawer. I may have to replace these with stouter hinges, we'll see. The hinge on the "petal" came from the same junk drawer. I did bevel the brace piece so when there was weight on the base, the brace piece stays solidly in place.
57229

To use, just step on the T hinge. The 2X4 with casters rotates, the end lifts, the brace piece drops underneath the little lip. To lower, step on the T hinge, lift on the rope and lower.
57230
Works fine, should last a long time, is more stable than a single caster, is prototype crude and...."inexpensive":D

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for the update, Curt.

On the blades and guides, if the saw has mounts that are designed for standard Euro guides to mount, there is a chance that the MM16 Cool Blocks kit might work. I have them here (although I've never used them yet) if you want to look at them sometime. Other than that, you're pretty much on the money about running narrow blades with the larger guides...not a good idea.


Carter does make the Stablizer for the Rikon 14" saw...it's designed specifically for scrolling with very narrow blades. The listing they have for the "Jet 16", 20", Laguna 16" and other Euro saws (http://www.carterproducts.com/product.asp?product_id=157&cat_id=14)" might be worth a look if your saw has Euro guides.

[Curt Harms]

The fence is rather clever. It has a high-low setup sort of like the UniFence
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The bolts & knobs were sort of small. I replaced them with better knobs & 1/4" T bolts. The fence "stub" has a small brass insert that the knob screw tightens against. I couldn't figure out how to keep from losing this piece when removing the fence assembly. It turns out to be easy and quick to remove the fence portion and rotate the fence "stub" for storage. It only takes a couple seconds and is completely below the table surface.
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The manual shows the fence to the left of the blade but so far I'm liking the fence to the right of the blade just like a table saw. I may change my mind on this. If so, it's easy to change. A handy benefit to the T bolt mechanism is the ability to attach additional fences.
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An issue with tall fences is how to keep them parallel to the blade. Rikon has a little rotating anvil affair that when under the table leveling bolt holds the table perpendicular to the blade. To make the taller fences parallel to the blade, move this little anvil out of the way and the table can tilt 10 degrees past perpendicular. Pretty slick.
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Is this saw a competitor to MiniMax or Aggazani? Clearly not. Not really a competitor to the 17-18" saws such as Grizzly, General Int'l etc. either. It does however fill a niche for hobbyists like myself with limited space & basement shops, and possibly the small commercial shop that's not a heavy band saw user. It's a viable alternative to the cast iron 14" saw with a riser block. Would I buy it again? Without hesitation, teething pains and all.

Curt

[Al Weber]

Curt,

The customer support group at Rikon are great people. Give them a call and see if they can steer you in the right direction.

Can you detail the adjustments you used for the tension system? I've got the same problem with a Rikon 18" and the systems are the same so your experience will be valuable.

[Curt Harms]

Curt,

The customer support group at Rikon are great people. Give them a call and see if they can steer you in the right direction.

Can you detail the adjustments you used for the tension system? I've got the same problem with a Rikon 18" and the systems are the same so your experience will be valuable.

Hi Al

I'm going to attach a pic, I hope
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When I got the saw, the double nuts were down against the spacer, which limited the wheel travel upward. I loosened them and moved them up against the slotted piece and retightened them. Seems to work fine. Interestingly enough, the built in blade tension gauge doesn't seem to far off, as Mark Duginske indicated in an earlier thread. This is the first saw I've had with the tension gauge so I can't speak for other saws. The tension wheel isn't as easy to turn as the cast iron wheel with handle that I had on my prior saw but with the quick release, I don't move the tension knob nearly as much either.

Curt

Edit- I just thought of one thing. If the wheel moves up further, you'll need to loosen 2 screws that hold the tension indicator mechanism and move it up-it's slotted. I had to remove the top wheel in order to reach one of the two screws. I moved mine all the way up and it seems to read about right. YMMV on this

[Al Weber]

Thanks Curt. I've noticed major differences in the length of the bandsaw blades I've bought from various places. I order some a year ago which I could not get onto the bandsaw because they were short. When I measured them against other blades, the differences in length only seemed to be about 3/8 to 1/2 inch difference. Then I bought a Timber Wolf blade from Suffolk a while back and it was so loose I couldn't tension it sufficiently. I called Rikon and there tech rep, who is very good indicated that Suffolk always makes the blades a bit longer than the actual measurement. Why they do this is unknown to me. The behavior of the long blades was that even though I tensioned them using the flutter method, they "bellied" in the beam direction, that is front to back. Rikon indicated that this was an indication of insufficient tension. I increased the tension and the behavior disappeared but I'm still fighting some tracking problems so I think I need to adjust the upper wheel height to compensate. As you said, the manual doesn't describe this. Other than buying a tension gauge, is there any other way of dealing with this difference in the length of blades?

While bandsaws are simple machines, they are very touchy about adjustments. I'm still learning, usually the hard way.

[Curt Harms]

Thanks Curt. I've noticed major differences in the length of the bandsaw blades I've bought from various places. I order some a year ago which I could not get onto the bandsaw because they were short. When I measured them against other blades, the differences in length only seemed to be about 3/8 to 1/2 inch difference. Then I bought a Timber Wolf blade from Suffolk a while back and it was so loose I couldn't tension it sufficiently. I called Rikon and there tech rep, who is very good indicated that Suffolk always makes the blades a bit longer than the actual measurement. Why they do this is unknown to me. The behavior of the long blades was that even though I tensioned them using the flutter method, they "bellied" in the beam direction, that is front to back. Rikon indicated that this was an indication of insufficient tension. I increased the tension and the behavior disappeared but I'm still fighting some tracking problems so I think I need to adjust the upper wheel height to compensate. As you said, the manual doesn't describe this. Other than buying a tension gauge, is there any other way of dealing with this difference in the length of blades?

While bandsaws are simple machines, they are very touchy about adjustments. I'm still learning, usually the hard way.

Hi Al

I ordered 2 bands from T'wolf with the same result as You had. I also got a couple of 1/4" "beater" bands from a local source so if they get damaged from metal or whatever, I won't be upset. The "beater" bands and T'wolf blades seem identical as far as length and tensioning go and seems to be longer than the blade that came with the saw.

Perhaps we overthink the band tension thing, as Mark Duginske mentioned in another post. As long as they don't flutter and deflect about 1/4" with moderate finger pressure with the upper blade guide raised and bearings set to use, I figure it's good. With my old saw I just experimented with various levels of tension and scrap wood, and used what gave the best result. I found on my old saw too much tension on 1/2" Timberwolf blades produced a rougher resawn finish than the recommended "just tension it until it quits fluttering" method. I did find with the Rikon saw the factory setup didn't permit enough tension to remove the flutter, so I found a way to increase the upper wheel travel.

I don't have an aftermarket tension gauge. I readjusted the built-in tension gauge when I lengthened the upper wheel travel and find that the 1/4" band when tensioned to 1/4" on the built in gauge works pretty good. Likewise the 3/4" band so for the moment I'm happy with that. If I get bored, I may tweak further;) I haven't checked the alignment and tilt of the wheels yet, but the bands seem to want to run the same on both wheels i.e. if the band is toward the outside of the top wheel it's toward the outside on the bottom wheel as well so I'm not inclined to mess with that. As far as learning the hard (expensive) way, I can relate to that:o but if I develop a real understanding of how something works as opposed to a rote response, I figure it's worth it.

Curt

[Stefan Bukowski]

It was stated that Sufolk makes their blades a little long. What is the ideal length for the blade so that you can tension it properly. Is the reason that they were too loose because they were made > 111 inches?
If I instructed them to make the blades EXACTLY 111 inches would that be good, or do the Timberwolf blades have extra stretch. Would it be better to order them undersize? 110 inch or 110 1/2 inches?
Thanks, Stefan

[J. Z. Guest]

Does anyone have an idea of why manufacturers don't design a soft-start circuit for power tools powered by induction motors? Then, we could have higher hp motors without worry of tripping breakers with the inrush current.

[Stefan Bukowski]

Hi,
How flat should a bandsaw table be? I just got a Rikon 10-325 14 inch deluxe.
I measured the table flatness.
Diagonally it has a dish of about .015 in the center.
In the resaw direction in front of the blade, it dips about .007 if I'm measuring across the area that a board would travel as I'm ripping it.
This seems a little extreme to me.
What have other owner's experiences been?
Thanks, Stefan

[Curt Harms]

Does anyone have an idea of why manufacturers don't design a soft-start circuit for power tools powered by induction motors? Then, we could have higher hp motors without worry of tripping breakers with the inrush current.
I realize this is not just about the Rikon motors. Re the Rikon motor/saw, One thing that might help would be sure that the 120 volt breakers involved are motor rated. I'm not sure mine are. I got 'em at the borg so who knows. Nevertheless, the motor did draw 40+ amps on 120 volts for 2-3 seconds during startup & acceleration. Resawing only increased the amp load by only 4-5 amps or so over idling amperage which surprised me. The saw will work fine on a properly sized 120 volt circuit.

Curt

[Curt Harms]

Hi,
How flat should a bandsaw table be? I just got a Rikon 10-325 14 inch deluxe.
I measured the table flatness.
Diagonally it has a dish of about .015 in the center.
In the resaw direction in front of the blade, it dips about .007 if I'm measuring across the area that a board would travel as I'm ripping it.
This seems a little extreme to me.
What have other owner's experiences been?
Thanks, Stefan
Hi Stefan-
I just put a level on my table. I can't slip a sheet of paper underneath the level anywhere between the miter slots. Having said that, I wonder how much a few thousandths matter,especially for resawing. You're most likely going to joint, plane or sand the resawn surfaces which may correct any tiny errors, or perhaps induce new not-so-tiny errors. Also, the surface that seems to have the most bearing on resaw accuracy is the fence, not the table.

HTH

Curt

[James Hart]

Curt,

Sounds like you've been successful with a 3/4" blade on this saw? I was afraid the crowm on the wheels wouldn't let it track properly.

Jim

[Curt Harms]

Curt,

Sounds like you've been successful with a 3/4" blade on this saw? I was afraid the crowm on the wheels wouldn't let it track properly.

Jim
Hi James

Yes, the 3/4" timberwolf blade tensions fine. In fact, one time I forgot to tension the quick tension release so the blade was running with not much tension at all. Still worked okay but not recommended:o. The supercut premium gold seems like another good choice, the cut quality seems similar.

HTH

Curt

[Joe Spear]

Yes. the 3/4" Timberwolf tensions and tracks well on the machine. The first time I tried to install it, I couldn't get it to track. I must have been tired or something, because a month later I had no problem at all. Carter does have a version of the stabilizer specifically for the Rikon 14" You can get the model number by going to the Carter website. My local Woodcraft just happened to have one, so I got it there. It works well with narrower blades.

[Stephen Edwards]

One item of business was a mobile base. I had an unused Delta mobile base on which the lifting cam mechanism had worn so the caster wouldn't come level and the swiveling caster didn't swivel well at all. As I, like many woodworkers am cheap...er thrifty I came up with this. It cost me a few bolts and nuts, the rest came from rummaging.
57228

I laminated 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood and fastened it to the 4 forward facing bolts of the Delta mobile base. The hinges are mortiseless hinges I had in a junk drawer. I may have to replace these with stouter hinges, we'll see. The hinge on the "petal" came from the same junk drawer. I did bevel the brace piece so when there was weight on the base, the brace piece stays solidly in place.
57229

To use, just step on the T hinge. The 2X4 with casters rotates, the end lifts, the brace piece drops underneath the little lip. To lower, step on the T hinge, lift on the rope and lower.
57230
Works fine, should last a long time, is more stable than a single caster, is prototype crude and...."inexpensive":D


I really like your mobile base! Thanks for sharing your innovative idea.