SketchUp drawing book for woodworkers???

[Mark Duginske]

I’m working on the idea of a book on the SketchUp drawing program.
From what I can see it is the one of the most useful drawing programs for woodworkers. For my latest book THE NEW COMPLETE GUIDE TO THE BAND SAW I used the program. There are a couple of books but I do not find them user friendly and I think there is a need for a better book, especially if it is oriented toward the needs of a woodworker.

There are two versions, one is free and the professional program cost $500. For the free version do a google search for “free SketcUp program” or go to http://www.sketchup.com/. to see the pro version.

I use my pro version on a Mac but it is also available for a PC.
I’m curious as to how many woodworkers at SMC us SketchUp
and if there are suggestions for a book.

Thanks,
Mark Duginske

[jim gossage]

looks like a cool program. i'm downloading it as i browse the forum!

[Dan Lee]

Mark
Dave Richards in the SMC Design forum created some excellent WWing SU tutorials. I can now use it regularly for project designs.
Dan

[Ted Shrader]

Mark -

I use SketchUp. Have been through the last three versions of it. It is very useful for designing pieces to get proportions/features right. I also use it to show the customer the end product for approval.

Actual construction details are not from SketchUp. I just use the overall dimensions and work from there for the individual components. That might change with a little bit more education on the finer points.

Dave Richards has built some great tutorials and posted them here at Sawmill Creek. The users here have access to them. Those woodworkers that are not members here (yet) would benefit from a book. Dave has even been kind enough to spend a couple evenings on the phone with me walking me through the finer points of texturizing, etc. Dave would be a great source (and potential co-author) should you decide to take on the project.

Regards,
Ted

[Dennis Peacock]

Dave Richards is The Dude when it comes to SU. I like using the free version to help me get furniture designed, sizes laid out, and get proper dimension before any cutting starts.

[Steven DeMars]

I currently work in Auto CAD as an industrial designer. I would ask that whatever you put together for a book that it not be a tutorial only.
A reference as to "how to" perform functions without having to try to apply the tutorial to your own project would be nice. It is nice to be able to say "use the copy function" without trying to find a "lesson" that incorporated the copy function it.

I have never used Sketch-up since I work in Auto CAD now . . . .but would love to try it without a huge learning curve that would be necessary with tutorials only . . . .

[Art Mulder]

I’m working on the idea of a book on the SketchUp drawing program.
...
I’m curious as to how many woodworkers at SMC us SketchUp
and if there are suggestions for a book.

Mark,
I first grabbed Google Sketchup (Free) last spring for my mac, and I've used it off and on since. I keep getting a bit better - but being a hobbiest I only get so much time using it.

It was all the Sketchup people here at SMC using the program that got me interested, so I grabbed it pretty much as soon as the free version was available for the mac. So I think if you did a survey, you would find a LOT of people who use it here, and over on Familywoodworking.org.

I also hang out on two canadian woodworking forums, and it does not seem to be much used on those yet.

But is a book useful? I really don't know. I know that there are lots of online tutorials available that I could try following, if I had the time. So I don't know how much I could be already learning if I spent the time and effort.

If you did write a book, then obviously it'd be the woodworking stuff that we'd want focus on. How to make profiles for trim quickly and easily. and so on...

One thing that I find is that I do NOT usually completely duplicate the project in sketchup -- so far I don't bother with the hiddent joinery. I use it to get proportions, and get an idea of the look and design... but then I make adjustments in the shop when I actually build the piece.

best,
...art

[Jim Becker]

Mark there are quite a few SketchUp! users here at SMC...spend some time in the Design Forum and you'll see a lot of neat things, in particular from Dave Richards. Todd Burch, who has written quite a few of the outstanding Ruby Scripts is also an SMC member.

[Art Mann]

Steven,

I have used both Autocad and Sketchup quite a bit. The learning curve for Sketchup is much, much shorter than for Autocad. OTOH, I think you will get frustrated by it's limitations.

Mark D.,

I would pay for a text on Sketchup that focuses only on woodworking applications. An accompanying CD with examples and a library of common objects would be even better. I say go for it and annouce it at the Creek when you are done!

Art

[Dave Richards]

What limitations are those Art?

[tim rowledge]

Mark, I wouldn't suggest a *book* on using SketchUp at all; I'd suggest a *website*. Paper doesn't help much with interactive stuff.

A well written website - preferably done in collaboration with @Last and linked into their built-in help/info system - would be of significant value. Obviously you could include exemplar skp files, movies of how to do things, all that. Someone with SU expertise and writing skills could do a number of specialised (sub)websites for various user communities.

I'd suggest using the software I'm working on (www.sophieproject.org) as a way of making a good electronic book but it just isn't ready (enough) yet.

[Bob Wingard]

I'd buy a book, tutorial cd/dvd, workbook, whatever to flatten out the learning curve to any such undertaking !! !! !!

[Brad Kimbrell]

Mark,

I would welcome a book with examples. The guys are correct in that Dave Richards has done some great work on the subject.

I learn most technical tools by diving in and trying examples. If you could expand on the skills that Dave has transferred via his examples I would purchase your book immediately.

BTW, I love your BS fence and book!

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I would have to agree with Art's assessment about SketchUp's limitations becoming frustrating. This frustration comes after investing lots of time to learn other high end software which are so much more powerful.

However, on the other hand, AutoCAD is eye poppingly expensive and not targeted for the casual or hobbyist user. Other industry softwares like Catia, Pro Engineer, Solidworks and Inventor are even more expensive that it's almost cheaper to buy a car. SketchUp is free. Can't beat that.

The learning curve for AutoCAD, and other softwares, is also a huge investment. However, if one's professional woodworking career doesn't pan out , knowing AutoCAD may come in handy if you need to seek new employment in the architectural/engineering world.

-Jeff :)

[Mark Duginske]

Thanks Jim B. and Dennis P. for the suggestion. I have been in contact
with Dave Richards and we will explore this idea. He and I are neighbors
(Wisconsin and Minnesota). After using SketchUp for a while I now consider it a "foundation" tool like the jointer. Now, I draw it first. And then work on making the project.

To the other participants, thanks for the feedback. Woodworking is a lot of fun, but tools are important, I now consider SketchUp important like an accurate square and very sharp block plane.

I learned woodworking from my dad, who learned from his father who learned from my great grand father. Times have changed, and the task now is to help people learn in a new, more efficient way, and groups like SMC are part of the equation.

Best Regards,
Mark Duginske

[Art Mann]

What limitations are those Art?
Please note that i am referring to the free version of Sketchup. The commercial version may be more sophisticated. Here are just a few examples.

1. The dimensioning tool in Sketchup is a very crude manual operation. Autocad has a world of dimensioning options to make life quick and easy.

2. The tools for drawing arcs, circles, curves and ellipses are very limited. Autocad allows you to draw these elements in a wide variety of ways in relation to other elements in the drawing. This is hard to explain unless you have experience with programs that suport these functions. The bottom line is, Sketchup forces you to draw all sorts of temporary construction lines and points to achieve accurate placement of these elements.

3. The tools for replicating objects in a drawing are much more powerful and sophisticated in Autocad.

4. Autocad can export and print drawings in a wide variety of formats and scales. For example, the .dxf file format is an almost unversal format for exchanging information between design programs. I would guess that the pro version of Sketchup will also do this.

Having said all that, I would have to agree with Mark D. that this program is quickly becoming the standard design tool for the woodworking community. It can be learned with only a few hours of practice, whereas becoming really proficient in Autocad (which I am not) takes days of training and months of experience. That is a huge benefit to people who are more interested in woodworking than drawings. I think it is agreat tool and am amazed that Google is giving it away!

[Mike Cutler]

Looks like I'm going to have to upgrade my Mac to run sketchup. I have 10.2.8 on my laptop, system requirements are 10.3.9.:( ,;)

[Bart Leetch]

Sounds like a great idea Mark.

[John Schreiber]

I think this sounds like a very interesting idea and as a SU devote', I like anything which spreads the good news.

I wonder though if there is still a market for books about software. If I am working on a computer, I am on-line. If I am on-line, I am inclined to look to the web for answers to my questions. It takes a lot of searching sometimes, but I can almost always find answers if they are out there.

I don't know how typical I am, but that's one data point.

[Mark Duginske]

I agree with the comments. The "book" would probably not be the traditional book because things change so fast. Or, it would be a book with a web site like my new band saw book. Or, it might be a series of pdf(s) or even a magazine type format. It would also have a website that would have an updated source list especially the videos such as: www.go-2-school.com/

They have a neat "Digital Woodworking" video. There are a number of sources of SketchUp drawings including http://www.formfonts.com/ and others. A google search of
“SketchUp components” will show you what is available. Although some of the components are really neat and showcase a lot of skill they are not always applicable to the average woodworker.

What would make sense is to have the woodworker’s who use SketchUp create a library of images available at a good price.
I’m now working on a kitchen cabinet library. It doesn’t make sense for all of us to be trying to reinvent the wheel. My idea is that those contributing to the SketchUp drawings library be given a royalty for their work similar to an author. The beauty of the web is that it allows people to deal directly with each other and bypass filters like traditional publishing. This could function in a way like the old fashioned co-ops.

I’m just throwing some ideas out there and trying to find out how many woodworkers use SketchUp.

Mark Duginske

[George Matthews]

I’m just throwing some ideas out there and trying to find out how many woodworkers use SketchUp.

Mark Duginske
I have used SU for 3D concepts.

When it comes to details, I use OmniGraffle Professional on Mac OS X. It really is an advanced drawing application, and not a full scale CAD.

I render all the details full scale and have used it for all my projects for the last four years.

http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnigraffle/

[Glenn Clabo]

Mark...Great idea...I'll be waiting for whatever you do...especially if DaveR is involved.

[JC Bagley]

Mark,

In learning Photoshop I went through many tutorials, books, CDs, and DVDs. None were as enlightening as the tutorial movies that show the UI while the author annotates each action. It's akin to looking over the shoulder of a guru while they work their magic. You can learn how to use an application so much faster that way as compared to a (long) written document with embedded screen shots. I would suggest any tutorial author research how these movies are done.
For an example, here's a link to a few free tutorials on Photoshop.

http://www.photoshopuser.com/how.htm

J. C.

[Bart Leetch]

The thing to remember here is that each persons learning style may be different. I like reading instructions & seeing screen shots in a book of what the results are supposed to be. I also like learning one on one asking questions & learning from anothers past experience. I don't particularly like to use on line or cd's to learn from.Maybe its the clicky clicky to look & see what to do & clicky clicky back & try it then clicky clicky back to see what I missed or didn't understand. I like a book in my lap with the keyboard & mouse available so I can look at the book & keep the work at hand on the monitor & keep on plugging along at my own pace.
It my way others have their way.

[Dan Bundy]

I also prefer to put the book in my lap and follow along. there's just not enough room on my screen for something online, plus the program and it's really frustrating to click back and forth.

I'm dying to learn SU, but it's learning curve for me has been so steep as to be almost past vertical. I'm self-taught on a number of complicated pieces of software, but this one has me pulling my hair out. A book would be great.

DB

[John Schreiber]

It's akin to looking over the shoulder of a guru while they work their magic.
I agree with JC on this. Some kind of annotated video would be perfect for SU.

SU is in some ways simple, but because of the realities of working in 3D on a 2D screen, it really is deceptively complex. That makes it very FRUSTRATING in some ways; things which look straightforward can be just about impossible unless you know the tricks.

When I look back at things which frustrated me early on, I'm not exactly sure what it is that I'm doing differently. I have figured out the tricks but I'm unable to explain what I am doing that is different from what I tried before.

The thing to do would be to have a draft version of the training, then beta test the training while carefully observing the learners to see where they pick things up and where they miss things. That would show what the training is leaving out because they are obvious to the instructor, but not to the learner.

This sounds like an exciting project.

[Roger Wilson]

I have no way to judge the marketability of a book on SketchUp but in general in providing some sort of manual for software, such as PhotoShop a cookbook or for Dummies approach is very useful (see Scott Kelly, PhotoShop CS2). Ideas about how professionals and amateurs use the software in their projects would be useful as well.

Just explaining how different functions work is nice as a reference but how to use them in an actual project is much more useful, especially if the program has a lot of functionality.

I'd suggest going thru the design of some projects, using the different functions along the way. The key here is taking the perspective of a user who has a problem to solve, say how do I draw a curved leg, or how do I dimension something to fit into an existing space, or how do I draw a 30"x72" table top with a beveled edge. Another big issue is how do I change a drawing, add something, delete something, redimension something. You might also do a comparison of drawing a project on paper (say with an architecural ruler and graph paper) versus doing it in SketchUp.

As far as projects I'd do workshop cabinets, workbenches, rolling carts etc., shaker furniture, Arts&Craft furniture, then for more advanced stuff Studio Furniture and maybe traditional furniture.

You might include some info on how to scale drawings to print on home printers and full scale at a local print shop. This is particularly important for curves that have been produced in SketchUp so you can produce templates etc.

Good luck with the project, I've liked your other work.

[John Seiffer]

Mark,
When I first got Sketchup I got a book called "3D Construction Modeling" by Dennis Fukai. It came with about 50 short video demonstrations on a CD. Between the book and the demos they walked you through every step of laying out and framing a small house. A very hand's on approach.

Something like that for woodworkers would be great.

[Eric Sabo]

I use Sketchup for everything from laying out future projects, to laying out rooms/rennovations for me and my family, to laying out entire structures (houses, barns, garages, etc).

Heck, I designed my workshop in it. Although it needs to be revised as it goes from a handtool shop to a hand/power tool shop. I'll be laying out my basement remodel in it over the next couple of weeks. I use the free version, both on my Mac and on my PC and have yet to hit any limitation besides those that are my own.

[Todd Burch]

I just noticed this thread. I spend more time on the Sketchup forums these days than woodworking forums.

If I can pat my own back... ;), I brought SketchUp to SMC a few years ago. It has gained in popularity significantly since then, and with Google's purchase of @Last Software one year ago, awareness of SketchUp, since it is now free, and even the free version can be used for commercial purposes, people are flocking to it.

SketchUp is an excellent communications and visualization tool. When I did woodworking professionally, SketchUp was my sales partner. I got every job I bid on using SketchUp drawings. People could see their "thing" in the context of their home / room / whatever.

I draw two ways. First, for visualization. This is the quick approach. Just outer surface faces, key dimensions, representative hardware and trim, in a setting (such as on a wall for a built-in, or a table in a mock dining room, etc.) Once the job was sold, I then redrew the full construction details (sans joinery - because that was just too much detail). It's very effective. @Last even invited me to Colorado to present my methods at their 3D BaseCamp User's conference in October 2005.

Dennis Fukai's books and CDs are very effective (and enjoyable) teaching construction. A similar effort could be done for woodworking. With SketchUp's TourGuide (slideshow) capabilities and animation capabilities, it works very well for demonstrating techniques, operations and assembly processes.

Bonnie Roskes has published several books on SketchUp. Professor "Bob" did one or two in the early days. Google is also working on a book now. I considered writing one on Ruby, but I just don't have the time.

There are hundrerds (literally) of mini-tutorials on the SketchUp forums. Jean "Johnny" Lemire is a machine when it comes to producing and posting pointed "how-tos". Dave Richards, as already noted, is a fantastic SketchUp resource.

I would be willing to bet the principles over at FormFonts (I was previously an artist for FormFonts) would be more than happy to assist with your endeavour for a mention in your book. We at www.smustard.com would also be happy to assist with any ruby scripting needs (or explanations) as well. Don't forget Coen Naninck at www.sketchucation.com as well. He's building a great repository of video tutorials. Art Stratemeyer (USA), gidonyuval (Isreal - userid on SU forums, he's here too - I think Gideon...) are other professional woodworkers that have found SketchUp as a key tool to their arsenal. And, finally, John Yurko made a splash on the woodworking scene with SketchUp back in the early days by modeling several home shop tools.

I continue to see SketchUp drawings more and more - on TV, in Woodworking Industry trade magazines and elsewhere. It's a hit. There are even several woodworkers working for Google in Boulder - Bryce and Johnathon Dormody (SMC member too)

Todd

[Martin Shupe]

Mark, I think you have an excellent idea for a book.

Let us know when it is published, so I can buy one.

[Steve Roxberg]

Mark,

I would buy a book like that in a heartbeat.

For suggestions I'd have to think about it and will post later on in this thread.

[Matt Lentzner]

I haven't yet used SU to design furniture, but I plan to. I did use it to design my new kitchen and it was invaluable. Especially since I ended up doing 30-something :eek: different designs before I finally decided on one I liked.

I picked it up pretty quickly, but I had prior experience with 3D drawing and animation programs. Working in 3D is not easy and I can see how someone starting from scratch would find it pretty tough. I think a book/video/other tutorial would be welcome. Especially welcome if it focused on woodworking since it would dovetail into a subject that the audience was already familiar with.

I like even better the idea of having some sort of repository for woodworking related drawings. Having premade hardware, legs, knobs, etc would save a lot of time. Often those little items are the most time-consuming items to make.

Mark, if you could partner with vendors on getting to-scale drawings that would be even more cool. I would think it would be in their interest since it is essentially an advertisement for their hardware or other item. I would think if a person used the part in their own creation they would want to buy it when they were ready to build.

Overall, it's a great idea for a great program.

Matt