Hounds Tooth Dovetail Tutorial/Drawer techniques...Blue Spruce

[Mark Singer]

I am to the point where I am making the drawers for the bed side tables. These are hand cut dovetail drawers. I wanted to put the slenderness of these chisels to the test, so I am making houndstooth half blinds at 7 to 1 ratio. That makes the small pins very fragle and easy to fracture. The chisels were great and held an edge.....they were immediate favotites and I used them to pare and also to chop using a medium carvers mallet with a light touch. To make things more difficult one edge is a half overlay front so the saw stroke is really limited. This is almost only possible with a pull saw, so the lip is not scared with the forward push strokes. It is an advanced dovetail, but the same techniques are used as for regular half blinds. I will post some pictures in a tutorial format tomorrow. I don't suggest anyone try these to start with, but in a short while , with practice it is very manageable.
The chisels are perfect for dovetails, period! I added my 1/16" Two Cherries and a coupe of wide Japanese chisels for the long stretches on the pin board. They are comfortable and even with these tiny dovetails were in control and a real pleasure to use. I have many different chisels and these are the best I found so far for fine joinery....I will post the pics tomorrow...I am Super Bowled out:rolleyes: but I know a couple of you were waiting to hear my review of the Blue Spruce....before pulling the trigger

The drawer making process starts with stock preparation...drawer sides are resawn...drum sanded ....cut to length with a sled....the results are dead square...there is no need to shoot for squareness. The lap is cut to depth on the sled and finished on the bandsaw and trimed w/ a large shoulder plane

[Martin Shupe]

Wow, Mark, that sounds like a great tutorial. I am looking forward to it. I need to try hounds' tooth dovetails myself.

[Rusty Miller]

Just waiting to get mine from Dave. They should be here pretty quick. Also should be getting my Wenzloff dovetail saw soon.

Rusty

[Jim Becker]

I'm also looking forward to the pictures and tutorial, Mark...and I didn't even watch the super bowl...well, except for a piece of the first quarter when we were eating "family dinner" in Red Robin.

[Ken Werner]

Mark, I'm looking forward to your posting too.
Ken

[Zahid Naqvi]

Bring it on :)

[Mark Singer]

The router table is used to groove the sides and stop short of the doves...A bevel square sets the 1 to 7 ratio drawn on the bench . Then from a simple picture frame moulding make a dovetail marker by transfering the angle and cutting on the bandsaw...I just saved you $25:rolleyes: This laps on the edge like a addle square...you don't need to buy a little gaget for every task! With a waste piece of stock the same width as a drawer side mark the layout with lines...all you do is lay this next to the side and transfer. For houndstooths you should have a seperate marking gauge or caliper to transfer the different pin widths. Watch the reference face that you are scribing from ,,,,with half blindes it is offset by the backset from the face of the front.

[Mark Singer]

more layout...The marking gauge markes the base line which is the board thickness plus 1/32nd to insure the pins protrude. Sawing is done at the tail vice using a good lamp at an angle to highlight the scribes...if you can't see forget it! Using a square take the pin scribes down the face with a knife line. This is important....use a pencil only to layout tails....once you move to the pin board it is very clear carefull scribes and sawing on the waste side. If you use a pencil here...please don't post the doves....they will not be pretty;)

[Roy Wall]

I see a "bowed curve" drawer face on the horizon.......

Nice Mark!!

[Mark Singer]

The sawing just takes practice...the saw should cut straight and it depends how you guide it. The overlay side on the walnut is not a beginner task...even I hit the lap with my saw and made a kerf. It is easy because you are focused on the cut. That is why you rarely see overlay hand blind dove drawers...they are just annoying , because you can't move the saw and a Japanese saw is the best way. The houndstooth pins are just pared back to the second base line..thats it! You cut them as full pins and transfer the depth then pair then with a chisel....break the cross grain and pair. I chop at the front vise so I keep the sawing and chopping seperate ....just walk from one side to the other ...take your lamp if you need it...It is essential on the sawing side. Accuracy is usually scribing or sawing...chopping is not a big deal....lay the chisel in the scribe and push down...bevel of the chisel is toward rhe boards edge...the first cut is not the deepest...Rod Stewart never cut dovetails obviously....:eek:The first downward tap is light...then with the bevel up on the edge remove about 1/16 of depth...now you have a shoulder to rest the chisel on

When you glue up clamps can tighten a saw cut that was a slight bit off...if its way off don't bother...The side pictured is the overlay side...that is all the same piece of wood...you can see my slip with the saw into the overlay.......the tiny pins are still whole and they are fragile...this is delicate work ...otherwise the are the same as half blinds with two sizes of pins...mitered doves are another story and I did that tutorial...from 1 to 10 those are a 9....these are a 4...and those are through mitered where it all shows,,,Notice the routed slot for drawer support...these will hang with no carcass...open drawer case...it was Ryan's idea???

[Mark Singer]

Blue Spruce take a bow...they were great! Comfortable sharp a pleasure to use... I will save them for fine joinery. Marking gauge...knife...mallet...my 1/16" Two Cherries chisel The parts for the second drawer are ready to go...I will post a pic of the finished doves soon. Mke sure on glue up you check the drawer for square ...

[Jim Becker]

Very kewel, Mark! Thanks for showing the steps...

[Mark Singer]

I still have another drawer to go and I will try to improve the images and add some detail on the smaller pins..and of course the final pictures of the drawer

[Mark Singer]

The pics show the hounds tooth dovtails with just a little clean up...careful layout, scribing and sawing make for tight clean joints...With finish applyed these will be quite nice...I think:confused: The routted groove will serve as the drawer slide ...wood to wood...like in days of old...

[Hans Braul]

Nice work Mark - great tutorial. I have just spent the day making a drawer for a night stand that is nearing completion. I don't know if mine will look as good, despite using "training wheels" (LV dovetail guide). But it is satisfying work and they came out ok. I will post when complete. I am envious of your use of generous dimensions of obviously premium wood. I tend to stick to what I have available until I run out, so I sometimes feel I am forced to make non-optimal choices.

Regards
Hans

[Mark Singer]

Nice work Mark - great tutorial. I have just spent the day making a drawer for a night stand that is nearing completion. I don't know if mine will look as good, despite using "training wheels" (LV dovetail guide). But it is satisfying work and they came out ok. I will post when complete. I am envious of your use of generous dimensions of obviously premium wood. I tend to stick to what I have available until I run out, so I sometimes feel I am forced to make non-optimal choices.

Regards
Hans

I don't like the guide because it delays your real sawing practice....you become dependent on it and then when you go free hand you are tentative. It is a little like driving a car...after a while you don't even think about it and you are just going straight down the center of the road....Practice! The whole drawer here is only 4" wide! The small pins are barely 1/8" at the fat end.....the larger ones not even a 1/4"..so it is very easy to break one...This kind of practice is good to sharpen the sawing and chisel ...hand tool skills. When you put the tails over the pins , they better fit or they break! That is the bit of pressure to hone your skills. Now what I do like is that by making them....even with the guide, you are learning the steps and the nature of wood....what shows and what is hidden.....theis is great! Then with time the LV guide will collect the dust that your hand guided saw is making....that will be a good feeling:rolleyes:

[Hans Braul]

I hear what you're saying and I know the day is coming soon when I will have to ween myself off the LV guide. The dilema I have is this: Having separated about 5 years ago, my new partner and I find ourselves with very little quality furniture. So I have a houseful to do before just playing for the sake of playing. Not that I am "all production" when I work - far from it. But I am definitely motivated to complete pieces that I can be proud of. I know that if I just quit cold turkey right now I would make some pretty bad joints, and they would live forever. I just can't bear the thought of spending all that time on a piece only to wreck it with bad dovetails.

What I am realizing though is it takes me a LONG time to cut a set of dovetails. I worked just about all day yesterday to build one drawer. Part of the reason for the long time is the guide. The saw is not very aggressive and takes longer to cut, and I spend a lot of time aligning the jig exactly where I want it. I have seen videos of people making dovetails in much less time and they come out beautifully. So.... if I am to launch into bigger projects involving 6 or 8 drawers, then I may want to drop the guide just to move things along. I mean, there's patience, and then there's spending 100 hours cutting dovetails!

Anyway.... for now I am happy enough with my training wheels but one of these days I'm going to have to just jump. Maybe I should take a day-long course somewhere to get me going.

Many thanks for your thoughts Mark.

Hans

[Mark Singer]

Hans,
I understand what you are saying....I often feel the same is true of dovetail router jigs. By the time you get it all set up, you could have cut I nice set by hand. Setting up the LV guide and getting it aligned for each cut takes time. Practice allows you to just move the saw....place it next to the scribe and in a few seconds you have a cut complete. A lot of drawer making time is in the stock prep as you saw above. The actual doves ...sawing , layout and chopping is about 2/3 of the time if that. I do all the tails for all the drawers first....number them ...each joint has a different number...they are paired by grain and appearance. Once the tails are cut...I just go one by one...Nothing wrong with what you are doing and you are ending up with fine hand made doves...that is the most important... Once you let go of the guide....you will be movng faster...and probably more accurate...you need to just make the move and trust yourself...a class might be good. The tutorials miss many important things, how to hold the saw...stance....paing...just tons of stuff that pictures won't capture. There are some good DVDs too. I don't have any, but I think Klaus and Cosman have very good ones

[Roy Wall]

Mark -

Those look nice!

When you flushed the pins on the overhang side of the drawer face - did you use a plane blade ( sorry if I missed it in the reading..:o )

[Mark Singer]

Mark -

Those look nice!

When you flushed the pins on the overhang side of the drawer face - did you use a plane blade ( sorry if I missed it in the reading..:o )

I used a chisel plane since there is no room amd then sanded with 150 to blend the plane marks

[Jim Shaver, Oakville Ont]

Nicely done Mark.:)

[Mark Singer]

Thanks, Jim....I must apologize, I had my camera on a different setting and the pics were very poor! With one more drawer to go I will try to get some better pics...if there is anything anyone wants explained in greater detail just ask....since I am still improving (I hope:confused: ) the tutorial

It basically comes down to some simple things:confused:
1. Mark everything perfectly
2. Saw perfectly
3. Chisel perfectly
4. Scribe perfectly
5. saw again perfectly
6. assemble perfectly
7. Go get a beer:cool:

[Dave Jeske]

Mark,
Nice work and tutorial. I guess I now have no tool-related excuse such as my chisels are not good enough :). I will stick to tool making for awhile.
BTW Two Cherries is not the only one making 1/16" chisels, I have almost finished a total of four :). Tiny little buggers. Nobody has theirs yet as they are not quite finished but they look pretty cool. concave sides and all.
Dave

[Dave Jeske]

Just waiting to get mine from Dave. They should be here pretty quick.
Rusty

Soon, Rusty, Soon
Dave

[Mark Singer]

Dave
I am not sure I made it clear...I love your chisels!
Thanks!!!!!!

[James Mittlefehldt]

Thanks, Jim....I must apologize, I had my camera on a different setting and the pics were very poor! With one more drawer to go I will try to get some better pics...if there is anything anyone wants explained in greater detail just ask....since I am still improving (I hope:confused: ) the tutorial

It basically comes down to some simple things:confused:
1. Mark everything perfectly
2. Saw perfectly
3. Chisel perfectly
4. Scribe perfectly
5. saw again perfectly
6. assemble perfectly
7. Go get a beer:cool:

I do all that stuff now Mark except for the perfectly bit at the end of each step. I have recently, after five years in the wilderness, ie contract and temp work just gotten to gainful full time employment. I had been thinking, rather hard about those bluespruce dovetail chisels that is the smaller sizes. You are doing a hell of a sales job lol.

[Mark Singer]

James,
Those are great chisels...no sales job from me. They really are the best for fine work and I have quite a few!
The perfect thing is kind of in jest but it is certainly a direction to work towards. My Father used to say "Do something right the first time and you won't have to do it twice"
Dovetails require some skill and some patence....every step leads to the finale....if a step is not good it shows at the end....so it is a process of refinement ...practice by doing. With many joints the detail is hidden like most mortise and tenon....only the adjacent surfaces on the outside show...there is less to be concerned about and fewer steps to potentially mess up...what is great regardless of what level you are at is the dialogue with the wood and the tools.....there is a level of concentration that is required that removes all other thoughts ...almost a meditation in a way
no router and jig can ever create that special feeling....trust me!

[Mark Singer]

In making the second drawer I got out my camera and tried to put it on te correct setting this time:rolleyes:
Here I show how to mark and pare the shorter pins....they are scated from the tail board. The fit should be just right straight off the saw ...tapping lightly ...I use a plastic mallet. The back of the drawer through dovetails should also fit well. Notice the pins and tails projecting....this is because I overscribe the base to insure that the pins come throuh then they are trimmed flush. In the second pic I make a light shoulder to bed the chisel. Pic 3 the tail board is tapped partially in ...there is about 3/16" to go and the fit is nice with all the edges touching....don't count on the glue to fill gaps...it will show! Pic 4 is the thru dove at the back ...first trial. Pic 5 shows the smaller pins after paring

[Jerry Olexa]

Mark: Beautifully done! Nice work...Not much margin for error on those DT's...Thanks for showing

[Pam Niedermayer]

Mark, thanks for the photos. It seems that you could use most any sharp chisel to cut back the short pins and remove the resulting waste from the pin board. Did you find otherwise?

Pam

[Mark Singer]

Mark, thanks for the photos. It seems that you could use most any sharp chisel to cut back the short pins and remove the resulting waste from the pin board. Did you find otherwise?

Pam

Your correct...the Houndstooth looks hard but actually you just cut it as a regular pin....I extend the scribe with my knife and then measure and pair back ...you need to chop at the base of the pin to break the grain...any chisel will work. ...

[Pam Niedermayer]

Also, did you mark both boards from measurement (vs cutting one board and marking the other board from the cut one)? It appears you cut the tails first.

Thanks,
Pam

[Mike Cutler]

Excellent work Mark. Thank you for taking the time to do the photo essay/tutorial as you are going. A picture really is worth a thousand words.

Those Blue Spruce chisels really nice. I just got a set of Sorby Firmers, but there may be some Blue Spruces in the future also.

Hans.

Too often we get dependent on machines and "jigs or fixtures". We've been conned into believing that they are faster and more accurate.
I'm relearning that "handtools save time" and projects.

Once again Mark. Excellent woodworking and teaching.

Thank You

[Mark Singer]

Also, did you mark both boards from measurement (vs cutting one board and marking the other board from the cut one)? It appears you cut the tails first.

Thanks,
Pam

I use a template with pin locations to set the spacing...then by transfering the centers each tail board is marked and is consistent. A pencil is ok here for layout. Once the tails are sawed and chopped the pin board (held in the tail vise...see photo on first page) is carefully scribed from the tail board...this is probably the most critical step in any dovetails...Then the pin board is sawed , staying on the waste or tail side of the cut. The waste is removed using chisels...The pins are first all cut as full pins and then the smaller houndstooth are pared back to the second scribe baseline...pare the waste...fit viola!

[Mark Singer]

One point I probably didn't make is that unlike mitered through dovetails , which are in my mind the most difficult advanced dovetails, the houndstooth half blinds are about as easy as regular half blinds. That is a nice option for drawer sides and it is the next logical step for a anyone that is cutting "half blinds" and "throughs" for drawers. The one issue is of course the size of the pins....these little "darts" I made here are very fragile and it is easy to split or break either piece somewhere in the process. I showed pictures during the layout sawing and assembly and you can see there are no splits or gaps that must be "doctored" so it is very possible....I say this often, if you take the time to do it right the first time ....you won't have to take the time to fix it(and it is never as good)

[Mark Singer]

Here is the second drawer after clean up...no finish or filling this is right of the saw...so this set is a little better than the last one IMHO...with oil and wax they will look nicer....notice the saw marks on the rabbeted overlay...those i will fix...that is from hitting it with the front edge of the blade and what makes this type of drawer very tough....you have little freedom to move the saw

[Pam Niedermayer]

Thanks, Mark. I had reviewed the photos on page 1 at least twice and still didn't see the pin board markup. Sorry for my obtuseness.

I don't understand the second photo above, with the rebate. I know about sawing the pins and how/why the saw exceeds its desired bounds; but what's the rebate for? Does this drawer front sit outside the cabinet?

Pam

[Mark Singer]

Pam,
This drawer will have a free side and no bottom sourrounding it. The side groove will engage a runner suspended from a small suspended piece...the drawer front will cover this side piece. On page one under "layout , scribing and sawing" the last pic shows me scribing the tail layout on to the pin board....this is conventional ...it is really the same if you do pins first just reversed

[Mark Singer]

I finished the bed side tables and this explains the rabbetted drawer detail. It extends a bit and acts as a finger pull. The drawers slide very smoothly after some adjustments and the fit is snug...no slop. Here are the finished drawers dhowing the hounds tooth dovetails...where I employed the incorrect technique:rolleyes: There are 2 side tables and each hang on the bed rail..there are also stainless legs that are currently not installed

[Roy Wall]

That must be a great fit to use the drawer edge as a finger pull! A very clean look...and on the correct side no less!:)

[Mark Singer]

Roy,
Yes the finger pull ledge is close to each side of the bed and theey slde great! The trick is to remove all the slop so they can only go back and forth without skewing and sticking. Hanging just off the glide rail there is no resistance or friction...it runns real smooth.
Another thing to note at the side table joint I ran a reveal to "detail " the verticle and horizontal elements....it is just a saw cut about 1/8" deep. It really makes the pure geometry clear .