Help!! Lid supports for chest

[Jerry Olexa]

Final stages of a toy/blanket chest I am building. Have the lid (24"X50" solid walnut) attached w a 48" piano hinge and today test installed two lid supports (example shown below). It failed! Lid opened and closed like there are no safety lid supports (no dampening or softening). I don't want to harm my little 14 month old grandaughter's hands!!Is the lid too heavy (I compute around 360-480 inch lbs. I estimate 3/4" lid weighs 30-40 lbs). I bought these 2 Stanley hinge supports @ local Menards (no weight capacity listed). Should I: 1.) get new (3)weight listed supports @ Rockler (they have several, one @ 125 lbs ) or 2). look at gas assisted soft supports or3)Other options?? Project has gone well till now (pics will follow soon) but this final safety step is frustrating. I await your counsel. Thanks in advance...

[Brian Hale]

Have you tried the Flap Stays from Lee Valley?

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&cat=3,43740&p=43745

Brian :)

[Jerry Olexa]

Have you tried the Flap Stays from Lee Valley?

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&cat=3,43740&p=43745

Brian :)

Brian" No but I like that "adjustability"feature built in. Have you used?? Did you like? Sounds like a good option.

[Mack Cameron]

Jerry; there was a thread here the other day regarding this subject, but I can't find it now. While Brians suggestion from LV is OK, I have used their softdown stays. The instructions are somewhat complicated at first. Now I can do them very quickly.

All of the above brings me to this point from the thread I mentioned. Carlson Capitol Mfg. Inc. in Rockford Il manufactures the hardware I will be using from now on. Self balancing Lid Supports. They will sell to the woodworking hobbiest.

Roger Kjellstrom 815/398-3110. They have lid supports from a low limit of 20 in pds. to a high limit of 125 in. pds, both side and back mount. Their literature explains it all. Just rec'd my literature the other day and I'm convinced it's the hardware to use..

[Brian Hale]

A friend at work bought them for a built window seat that he uses for his kids toys and said they worked very well. The was a while ago and no complaints.

Brian :)

[Jerry Strojny]

Jerry,

Could you take the lid off and put it on a bathroom scale to get the actual weight? (Hoping it may be a little lighter than your estimate.) Other wise I would just go with four of the 125# type from Rockler. Woodcraft has them also. I used these on a blanket chest I made for my sister-in-law. They work just fine.

Jerry

[Jon Shively]

Are those lid supports on backwards? Would this influence them negatively?

[Mack Cameron]

Hi Jerry; while I did post and provide you with the one and only proper and safe solution to your dilemna, I'm very concerned it is not having the proper attention paid to it, mainly by the other solutions I see being offered.
Kindly read Pete Brown's offering in this thread I have attached. It's down near the end of the thread.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=51036
I am not an American so am not held to these standards, but I will be holding myself to them, now that I have been made aware of the dangers to little ones. I trust this advice will be taken in the spirit it is being given, and not in the manner in which it is given. Diplomacy is not my strong suit!

[Darrin Davis]

I just built a 18" x 36" oak toy box for my daughter. The top is 3/4" oak plywood with 3/4" x 1 1/4" trim around the top. I used 2 "soft down supports" from Rockler item number 69732. The top closes just right.

[Jerry Olexa]

Jerry,

Could you take the lid off and put it on a bathroom scale to get the actual weight? (Hoping it may be a little lighter than your estimate.) Other wise I would just go with four of the 125# type from Rockler. Woodcraft has them also. I used these on a blanket chest I made for my sister-in-law. They work just fine.

Jerry

Jerry, the lid is attached using about 48 brass screws (soft metal). I don't really want to have to reseat to weigh as I had to redrill several holes as the original brass screws slipped and lost its slots in the process. I've lifted the top several times before installing and I estimate at least 20 lbs to as much as 40 lbs.(3/4 in X 24"X50") Thanks Good advice

[Jerry Olexa]

Are those lid supports on backwards? Would this influence them negatively?

Jon: that pic is from Rockler's website. I've seen the same orientation on other sites w same product. Believe its correct...

[Brian Hale]

According to my book, walnut weighs 38lbs per cu ft.

A 3/4" x 24" x 50" equals 900 cu in.

900 times .000579 (convert cu in to cu ft) equals .521 cu ft.

.521 times 38 equals 19.8 lbs.

Not extremly heavy but more than heavy enough to hurt someone.

Brian :)

Yes, it's a slow day...... :rolleyes:

[Jerry Olexa]

According to my book, walnut weighs 38lbs per cu ft.

A 3/4" x 24" x 50" equals 900 cu in.

900 times .000579 (convert cu in to cu ft) equals .521 cu ft.

.521 times 38 equals 19.8 lbs.

Not extremly heavy but more than heavy enough to hurt someone.

Brian :)

Yes, it's a slow day...... :rolleyes:

Thank you Brian, i'll use your #'s when I buy new supports

[Jerry Olexa]

Hi Jerry; while I did post and provide you with the one and only proper and safe solution to your dilemna, I'm very concerned it is not having the proper attention paid to it, mainly by the other solutions I see being offered.
Kindly read Pete Brown's offering in this thread I have attached. It's down near the end of the thread.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=51036
I am not an American so am not held to these standards, but I will be holding myself to them, now that I have been made aware of the dangers to little ones. I trust this advice will be taken in the spirit it is being given, and not in the manner in which it is given. Diplomacy is not my strong suit!

Mack: Thanks for your concern and responses...

[Mack Cameron]

Jerry, the lid is attached using about 48 brass screws (soft metal). I don't really want to have to reseat to weigh as I had to redrill several holes as the original brass screws slipped and lost its slots in the process. I've lifted the top several times before installing and I estimate at least 20 lbs to as much as 40 lbs.(3/4 in X 24"X50") Thanks Good adviceHi Jerry Olexa; You might consider flat head machine screws LV item #44Zxx.02 next time (they actually look like bolts) and have much stronger holding power. They do require a wood Tap & Drill set LV item #44J06.xx. The other beauty of them is they can be inserted and removed many times without losing the hole or breaking the screw. Lee Valley had a full page article regarding their holding power etc. tested at a local community college in their Tech Bulletin issue #6 in Jan. '95 as well as a 4 pge spread in their "WoodCuts" woodworking journal issue #6 Winter of '93.

I hope in some small way this information has been helpful to you.

[Jerry Olexa]

Hi Jerry Olexa; You might consider flat head machine screws LV item #44Zxx.02 next time (they actually look like bolts) and have much stronger holding power. They do require a wood Tap & Drill set LV item #44J06.xx. The other beauty of them is they can be inserted and removed many times without losing the hole or breaking the screw. Lee Valley had a full page article regarding their holding power etc. tested at a local community college in their Tech Bulletin issue #6 in Jan. '95 as well as a 4 pge spread in their "WoodCuts" woodworking journal issue #6 Winter of '93.

I hope in some small way this information has been helpful to you.

Thanks, Mark. Again very useful, good info.

[Pete Brown]

According to my book, walnut weighs 38lbs per cu ft.

A 3/4" x 24" x 50" equals 900 cu in.

900 times .000579 (convert cu in to cu ft) equals .521 cu ft.

.521 times 38 equals 19.8 lbs.

Not extremly heavy but more than heavy enough to hurt someone.

Also keep in mind that the danger to smashing little hands is there, but it not the primary danger. The primary danger is the top coming down on a kid's head and pressing their neck into the side of the box, strangling them.

It doesn't take much to do that.

Pete

[Jerry Olexa]

Using Brian's formula: the lid 24" wide X 20 lbs=480/2= 240. My current lid supports (stanleys)have no weight capacity listed. Rockler's heaviest (26203)are rated @ 95-125 lbs ea. So, return the oldies and buy 3 of this series from Rockler and it should handle it ,I think. It seems to be a issue of a heavy lid (20-25 lbs) with low capacity lifts. We'll see. Stay tuned. Its 6 below 0 here today so I may not go to R until tommorrow. Thanks for your inputs..:)

[Mack Cameron]

Using Brian's formula: the lid 24" wide X 20 lbs=480/2= 240. My current lid supports (stanleys)have no weight capacity listed. Rockler's heaviest (26203)are rated @ 95-125 lbs ea. [quote]So, return the oldies and buy 3 of this series from RocklerOr get in touch with Carlson Capitol Mfg. 815/398-3110 and ask Roger Kjellstrom for their series 700 self balancing lid support. So sorry to keep piping in here, but I am so convinced they are the only proper closure, I can't stop myself.
As well they are recommended by the C.P.S.C. (US Consumer Product Safety Commission) for toy, blanket, & cedar chests.

[Jerry Olexa]

[quote=Jerry Olexa]Using Brian's formula: the lid 24" wide X 20 lbs=480/2= 240. My current lid supports (stanleys)have no weight capacity listed. Rockler's heaviest (26203)are rated @ 95-125 lbs ea. Or get in touch with Carlson Capitol Mfg. 815/398-3110 and ask Roger Kjellstrom for their series 700 self balancing lid support. So sorry to keep piping in here, but I am so convinced they are the only proper closure, I can't stop myself.
As well they are recommended by the C.P.S.C. (US Consumer Product Safety Commission) for toy, blanket, & cedar chests.

Mark: I did speak w Carlson Capitol and I will be getting that 700 series lid support you spoke of. They make it for both Rockler and Woodcraft but @ Carlson you have the full range of weight capacities. Thank you again for recos and information...

[Jerry Olexa]

Mack, Installed today the two heavier springs 105 Lb lid supports on the chest and they work perfectly. Project is done. Thanks for your help!!

[Jerry Bittner]

I have the same type supports, purchased from Rockler, installed on a blanket chest.

They work fine -- will hold the lid up even at a 45 degree angle. If I recall correctly, there is a formula for calculating the weight of the lid to match the supports.

[Mack Cameron]

Mack, Installed today the two heavier springs 105 Lb lid supports on the chest and they work perfectly. Project is done. Thanks for your help!!Hi Jerry; glad I was such a PITA, but so happy that everything worked out for you and the little ones.

Right now I'm just trying to figure out where to put those holes the C.P.S.C. recommends!

[Irvin Cooper]

Hello Jerry.

I JUST went thru this on two cherry blanket chests! Like last weekend.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=51036

I have read all the formulas, etc... they basically are irrelevant. There are too many variables at play with dimensions, weight, lid support placement, etc.... .

I tried three different sets of hinges until i found a set from Lowes that works. I started with the same ones you ahve on your box now.

PM me and I can get the part # to you from lowes, and will provide you with any other relevant points that I can send your way.

Regards.

Irv

[Pete Brown]

Hi Jerry; glad I was such a PITA, but so happy that everything worked out for you and the little ones.

Right now I'm just trying to figure out where to put those holes the C.P.S.C. recommends!

Stick them on the sides, and finish as hand-holds. If done well, it'll look like they belong there :) Putting them on the back isn't recommended as the back is often up against a comforter or blanket hanging off of a bed.

Pete