Borg - frustrating experiences (long)

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
I know this is preaching to the choir, but I have to get it off my chest.

With any luck, maybe someone from Home Depot and/or Lowes will stumble on it and do something to correct the situation.
As a “newbie” to woodworking, at the tender age of 54, I find it’s difficult enough to learn all the right things, but the process is actually hampered by bad merchandise and bad advice.

Lowes – I was in the market for a portable table saw. I narrowed the choice down to about 3. On the advice of the salesperson at Lowes, I bought the Hitachi “jobsite” model for $199.99. While it’s quite a step up from my 20 year old promotional $89.00 (at the time) Builder’s Square table saw, it has one enormous flaw.
The miter slot is not industry standard ¾”. This makes finding even the most basic accessories difficult, if not impossible. The aggravation factor alone is worth the difference in price between the Hitachi and the DeWalt – which was also one I considered. The deciding factor came down to the features on the Hitachi as pointed out by the gentleman working in the tool department.
Having worked for one of the Big Boxes myself at one time, I can’t fault the salesman. I really blame Hitachi for it, as well as myself, for not researching it further.
I do blame Lowes somewhat though for not advertising the fact that the saw will not accept common ¾” accessories, or at least put some pressure on Hitachi to change it.

Home Depot – This past Friday evening I had to take the seats out of my Odyssey to make room for 4X8 sheets of plywood and beadboard. While it sounds fairly trivial, the seats are fairly heavy and awkward to remove. The near zero temperatures and the 50 foot walk through the snow in the driveway compounded the misery. I planned it for Friday evening since my son and grandson were coming over. That meant my son could give me hand getting the goods out of the van and into the house. Off to Home Depot we went. I managed to find 2 sheet of ¾” Birch plywood that weren’t too damaged to use.

The problem came with the beadboard. I need 3 sheets of 15/32” either Pine or Birch.
There were 4 sheets of each left on the shelf. The edges were destroyed, they were severely warped and they had water stains. I’m not exaggerating at all how pathetic these pieces were. They were not saleable merchandise, they were scrap.
While I don’t expect to find true cabinet grade goods, I do expect to find something that’s useable. I guess my question here is why do lumber sales fall into some different category than anything else? Had these been hamburgers at McDonalds that were in similar condition, I doubt if the CEO of home Depot would have silently bought them.

Round 2 started when I asked one of the workers if he could get one of the unbroken bundles down so I could buy 3 sheets of beadboard. He point out that there were 4 sheets on the shelf and offer to help me load it on the cart. When I pointed out their condition, he offered to discount each sheet 10%. I asked him if he would buy them himself. He kind of smiled and said no. He then explained that it was company policy…
Needless to say, it’s Sunday and I’m still without beadboard.
Personally, I would be embarrassed to have something that belongs in a landfill, sitting on the shelf of a store I owned, as saleable goods. Those 3 pathetic pieces of beadboard and their polices simply cost them close to $1900.00 is sales. Probably more since I doubt if I’ll go out of my way to shop there anymore.

What’s worse though is that I’m also very discouraged about woodworking in general.
I mentioned earlier that I was 54. I’m at the age where I’m thinking ahead for retirement.
Woodworking is one thing that I always had an interest in learning. My long term plan is (was?) to begin assembling the tools now while I’m working, in anticipation of having the free time in a few years to devote a lot of attention to making things and/or fixing up things.

You all here at SMC have been great answering questions and steering me in the right directions. I’m sure I’ll never be able to produce anything near the quality of some of the items I’ve seen posted here. I’m pretty realistic. The Almighty blessed some people as craftsmen, and I’m not one of them. Still, I enjoy it, and despite all the roadblocks, I’ll probably continue pursuing it. Maybe not with quite the gusto, unless Lowes and Home Depot can somehow clean up their acts. I can understand though why the nickname “borg” applies to these places.

Thanks for also listening to my rant.

Rich

[Greg Burnet]

Rich, I completely understand your frustration. However, don't give up on a great craft because the big box stores have corrupted the industry with their tactics. My advice would be to stick with it, & find stores that cater to woodworkers, both the hobbiest & the professional. These stores are out there in your area - you just need to do some digging to find them. Once you find them, you'll discover they're usually staffed with people passionate about the craft, & willing to share their knowledge. You may also want to look into taking classes offered by a community college. Just put yourself in a position of being around folks in the know, & whatever you do, stay away from the boxes unless absolutely necessary!

Greg

[josh bjork]

Rich, I'm going to bless you with my discovery and it will change your outlook. Don't ever trust the word of the big box employee. It is frustrating trying to be frugal. There is another place you can go that would treat you better and it would cost more? Or demand to talk to the lowes manager and waste your time doing that. My shopping experiences have sucked too. I mail order everything I can because of it. My neighbor gets everything he needs to trim a house delivered to the job site and from what I've seen, it is all better quality that what I get at the crappy stores, but he isn't worried about the cost. I think sometimes you have to go that way just for sanity.

[Chuck Wintle]

Rich,
I have had similar experiences in Borg style stores here in Quebec. Whenever I get bad/conflicting advice from a borg employee I remind myself they need no special knowledge to work there and are paid accordingly. But in your case maybe you should have located the manager, explained the problem and got them to undo a new bundle. As for losing sales I think borg stores are not very concerned about it. :D

[Jeremy Yorke]

Rich
Dont get discoureged about woodworking no one here either thing highly of the Borgs when it comes to woodworking . It can be very relaxing and rewarding, I myself I am looking forward when I retire to do it full time. If you want quality lumber for your projects than lumberyards or specialty wood suppliers is a good source ask here and I am sure somene will direct you to one. With regarding HomeDepot, you should have gone to the manager ( I dont if you did that or not) and demanded to bring down the new bundel. Again, my advice is stick with your desire. Woodworking is very fun and rewarding___ be safe
Jeremy

[Don Bullock]

...Woodworking is one thing that I always had an interest in learning. My long term plan is (was?) to begin assembling the tools now while I’m working, in anticipation of having the free time in a few years to devote a lot of attention to making things and/or fixing up things...

Rich

Rich, I share your frustration with the Borg stores, but I sure hope that you don't give up on your retirement "dream" because of them. I too am in the same position as you are, but even a little closer to retirement (1 1/2 school years to go, but who's counting;) ), and have decided to get back into woodworking after being away from it for about twenty years. I miss the local lumber yards that catered to people like us. There are some still out there but they are not as easy to find and get to as they once were. Hang in there. I'm sure as you start exploring your area you'll find some better places to find quality materials.

I sure hope that you decide to send the information included in your rant to those to HomeDepot for their policy on wood in the racks. Send a copy to the manager of your local store and send copies to anyone and everyone within the corporation that you can get a name and address for. If people like you don't complain they won't change their policy on stocking the racks. I've discovered over the years that bysending letters to a lot of people in a corporation or government can make a difference. Usually they all end up on one person's desk with notes to "take care of it." I hope it's "legal" to give you this link http://corporate.homedepot.com/wps/portal/Leadership to the Home Depot execs.

[John Kain]

Rich,

Go take a couple WW classes at one of the Woodcraft stores or at a local tech school. I will guarantee this will reinvigorate your interest. To see real professionals and their passion is very contagious.

[Bob Malone]

Rich, recalling those emortal words: "it's not what you know, but sometimes who you know that counts".

I like you, have been late to get into the wood working experience. My earlier years in the construction business, plumbing to be exact, taught me that while the big box stores have lots of items cheaper than wholesalers sell for - cheaper isn't always better.

Since getting into wood working I have frequented the local hardwood supplier, the local plywood wholesaler, and yes I have even sought out several local wood mills. I have never been shy taking them some Tim Horton donuts (Canadian coffee shop tradition) to these shops just before they have a morning coffee break! The lads remember me and are only to willing to help out when I have a stupid question or need an extra special board(s) for that right project. I am patient and let them serve the trades guys first, then cherish the time they can take to help me out.

Building up these contacts over the last 5 years have helped me to buy quality wood and I have never had to suffer the frustration you have felt recently at the big box stores.

Do I buy some wood working supplies at the big box stores? Sure I do, things such as brushes, screws and such - but almost never wood!

On larger tool purchases I will frequent those stores that specialize in tools. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that even my local hardwood supply store has moved into the better established brand tool names - so I am buying my bigger ticket tool items from them in addition to quality hardwood. Turns out they appreicate my business and have given me a small, but appreicated, trade discount based on my repeat business.

Part of the learning and enjoyment I have experienced in wood working is finding those specialized trade stores that can help me to find better wood, quality machines and put me in touch with some wother wood workers in a similar situation to my own.

Sometimes its not what you know, but who you know ....

Bob

[David G Baker]

I agree with all of the above. I have found that it is cheaper to purchase lumber from lumber companies that cater to the woodworkers. The up front cost is generally not cheaper but the poor quality and lack of material will be more than off set by quality. To get the quality lumber you will have to do some local research. Many cabinet builders in my area drive around 100 miles one way to get the consistent quality material that they need to build their cabinets.
My local HD sells Red Oak, the quality is not that great and I have to spend a lot of time searching for material that is not scrap. I have visited the HD at least 4 times over the past 2 months looking for Red Oak and they have not replenished their stock in that length of time. Even the scrap has been purchased. I can not believe how many times I have found numerous items in HD that have not been restocked.
We are getting a Menard's in our area that will open before too long. I have not heard how they cater to wood workers. Hope it is better than the HD. Maybe HD will get the message when their business drops off a bunch.
David B

[John Shuk]

Home Depot and to a lesser extent in my area Lowes seem to have more damaged or incomplete goods on the shelf than intact merchandise. I really try to avoid shopping there if I can. There seems to be no incentive for improving the rough handling of goods since they are able to charge back their vendors for most of it. They even charge back vendors for the lawn mowers and other equipment that people buy, and then use for a job or season and return. I can't see their business model living forever.
Rant over.

[John Terefenko]

A couple things happened here. First you found out that the big box stores are not the best place to buy equipment or material. But with that said to your material problem that is not neither Home Depots policy or Lowes policy to sell everything that is on the shelf first. You talked to a person that has no idea of store policy I guarentee it. Second what you should have said was you wanted 10 sheets of beadboard and then he would have had no choice. He probably did not know how to run the forklift so he hoped you would go away and he won. There is a 1-800 number you can call and you can tell the person of any complaints and they will be straightened out right there. The number and picture of the guy is pasted all around the store and mostly up front where the registers are. Any emplyee of either store does not want their name associated with this guy.

Next time you are in the market for a tool of signofigance such as a table top saw please stop by here or any other forum and ask questions and do some homework. This is how you learn about tools. Now of course we all have our favorites but you will get ideas and choices and usually if a product has flaws they will show up in the reviews. Welcome to the world of woodworking and these problems are not your last so do not get frustrated just learn from them.

[Kyle Kraft]

I had a similar experience with some 1/4" oak veneer plywood from Menards. I dug deep into the bunk to find 2 flat ones and bought them. After 5 days in my climate controlled shop, they wer so warped, bowed, cupped, twisted, et al that they wouldn't even make a good liner for a doghouse.

After a trip to a privately owned lumberyard that caters to contractors, I walked out with a $35 piece of oak veneer ply, and after 3 weeks in my shop is still as flat and true as the day I bought it.

I learned that you don't save money buying inexpensive materials, you only spend less money. It's like in the old days of cameras that used 35mm film. People would spend thousands of dollars on a body, lenses, filters, flashes, etc. then complain about film costing $5 a roll.

P-poor material is also a great safety hazard. Try ripping a piece of warped, misshapen ply on your monster table saw for a scare.

Needless to say, if the material is less than perfect, I won't buy it. I take my business elsewhere and support quality suppliers.

[David G Baker]

Kyle,
A friend of mine is a cabinet maker. He makes the trip from Clare MI, (30 miles North of Mount Pleasant) to a lumber supplier in Charlotte, MI every time he gets the materials list for a new job. Don't know the name of the supplier but they are supposed to be excellent. He uses an eight ply for his drawer sides. I doubt that there are any local suppliers that carry it.
I am not sure of the mileage but it is quite a trip with fuel prices the way they are.
David B

[Ken Garlock]

Hello Rich. Boy, it sure looks like things have gone to pot since I left Akron 27 years ago.;) :D

First thing to learn is that the Borg does not carry quality plywood, and their hardwoods are not much better. Say it over and over again until you can drive by the borg without stopping.:)

The last I bought from the local orange box had the plys bubbling up along the edges with in one week. I am, for one, getting tired of the crap coming out of China and be foisted off as plywood. I even went to a respected hardwood store in Dallas this last week for for 'shop grade' plywood and it was made in China. It is a notch above the garbage at the borg, but not much.

So what are you to do? Find yourself a good lumber yard that sells quality wood. They are around, it is just a matter of talking to fellow woodworkers until you get a consensus. Give John Hart a PM, or Email, he should have some recommendations. Keep an eye out for others posting here that live in the NE Ohio area. You might even stop by Homestead Finishing and visit with Jeff Jewitt, he will have some good ideas.

As said above, take a class or two at Woodcraft, or at Rockler. Look up a WW club in the area and attend a couple meetings.

Don't slam the door before you have experienced what is going on inside. This is not an apple barrel, and one bad experience doesn't ruin the hobby.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Rich....been there...done that...didn't buy the t-shirt as it was too ragged!.........One of our local lumber yards has the same attitude. I went there on a Sunday to buy materials. They started to load me up...I said....I'm going to high grade the stuff....the stuff they were trying to load into my pickup was warped.....had huge deficits......they said company policy prevented me from doing that......I told them my personal policy prevented them from buying or using defective materials. I took my receipt back inside....expressed my displeasure....the clerk repeated company policy of "No highgrading"......I got my money back.....I haven't been back since....

[Mike Seals]

Lowes and Home Depot are the Wal-Mart of the building stores. That is they only carry volume items, or items that sell fast. Most of these stores do not have any wharehousing so to speak, deliveries are made day and night and stock normally at night.

Small items that move quickly can normally be purchased at these stores for a reasonable price. Where I live, most decent hardware stores (the few we have) close on Sunday. The one that did remain open had their small items marked up from 100-400% over the others. I'm glad a HD did opened up in our town just to force the others to be more competative. But I will agree, the stocking for folks that like to do as we do is poor at best. And the quality of help is normally poor.

[glenn bradley]

Good rant and good to get it off your chest. I make peace with the BORG's knowing I'll be looking for a needle in a haystack when I go in. I consider them a resource but not my usual supplier of shop good / tools.

In my part of the country we have smog, congestion and all sorts of unpleasantness. I also have 10 places to buy lumber within about 10 minutes of my house. This is the trade off.

I hope you will continue to pursue this hobby which I have come to love despite my lack of natural ability. I would look around for a quality supplier of lumber. That way when you need certain items and they have to be "good", you'll have a source. For the day-to-day 'stuff' that I need now and then, the BORG will do.

I also go through the effort to fill out their on line surveys or send emails directly stating my point or experience. My 'realist' nature tells me 9 out of 10 of these fall on deaf ears but at least I feel better. the 'optimist' in me hopes that the big box stores will react and fix a few things.

I don't know about your area but my HD does not post prices on probably half of their lumber goods. What is so difficult about printing off the inventory sticker and putting it on the rack? Oops, sorry I almost got off on a sub-rant.

Good luck and enjoy the hobby. Don't let the BORG's apathy get you down. ;-)

[Nate Rogers]

I have a simple rule in life, I DO NOT SHOP AT BORGS! Period! It never turns out good. I always shop at my local lumber yard, the owner is always there and he CARES about the business, therefore he cares if you are happy. I don't care if it costs a bit more, it I get what I want, when I want it..Then I am happy, nothing hits my my truckbed that doesn't meet my specifications..Are all lumber yards this way? Of course not, do some research ask around and you will find that place..The same applies to tool purchases, find a good dealer..and be loyal to that dealer and they will be loyal to you! Price is important, but it is not the only thing that is important.

Nate

[Lou Ferrarini]

Round 2 started when I asked one of the workers if he could get one of the unbroken bundles down so I could buy 3 sheets of beadboard. He point out that there were 4 sheets on the shelf and offer to help me load it on the cart. When I pointed out their condition, he offered to discount each sheet 10%. I asked him if he would buy them himself. He kind of smiled and said no. He then explained that it was company policy…


Last time this happened to me, I bought the warped pieces and enough good ones to do the job. I loaded the good ones in the truck and immediately took the others right back to the return desk.

[Alfred Clem]

You might look at your situation from another angle. If the Borg hands you lemons and you decide woodworking is not for you, they have controlled you. On the other hand, if you decide to tell them -- verbally or otherwise -- to take their shoddy merchandise and customer-be-damned policies to a place where the sun don't shine, then you are in control.

Which is it going to be? Borg in control? Or you in control? I hope it is the latter because woodworking and the people who love it are your true friends forever.

[Kyle Kraft]

Dave,
You must be referring to Johnsons Lumber Co. a.k.a. Johnsons Workbench. I bought my cabinet saw and drill press from them....excellent customer service and products!!!

[Kyle Kraft]

Lou,
I love your solution!!! Kind of reminds me of what a friend of mine did to a store years ago. They ticked him off for one reason or another and he went back, filled a cart, then abandoned it in the store for the drones to restock. Hows that for customer service.

[Bill Turpin]

Several years ago a VP at HD corporate told me that I was abusing my Garden cart by taking it off of level pavement. Do any of you garden in your paved driveway?

I used to buy clear and better pine shelving at a local lumber yard for 25% less than Lowes gets for their PrimeChoice kindling! Unfortunately they went the way of progress. The only good thing about it was that ALL the employees (7) were old enough to retire together. :)

Bill in WNC mountains

[tim mathis]

just don't take their pencil.

[Frank Chaffee]

Rich,
Most of us has probably had a bad experience at a borg, just as we have at a bank, car repair shop, or online vendor. Part of the learning curve in woodworking is learning where to buy what, and to ask questions about which products satisfy your needs. If you peruse these pages for a while, I’m sure you will absorb much information that will help you get started in your new endeavor, and I’ll bet that you discover needs you were never aware of!

I once did about a year long remodel (hey, I’m slow!), and spent a lot of time at a nearby Home Depot. Through that period I got to know various dept managers, and so knew who to look for, or ask for when I had specific questions that couldn’t be answered by “Asile 3 and to the right”. Many HD employees worked hard to help me, and on several occasions managers recommended trade shops by name when they felt that HD’s offerings would not be right for me.

Once I walked into a strange HD needing ten sheets of *cheap* 4x8 stock. There were not ten sheets of 3/8 cdx in the rack, so the guy on the floor in lumber gave me ten sheets of ½” five ply for the same price. It worked for me.

There’s good management/bad management, good people/uncaring people, good advice/inappropriate advice everywhere.

Seek and ye shall find.

Happy trials to you…;) :)

[David G Baker]

Frank.
I agree with you.
I have had similar experiences with the Borgs, this is why I keep going back to HD. I have learned their limitations and try to work within those limitations. If it doesn't work they will take it back, another plus.
It is frustrating at times because I had access to the old style hardware and lumber stores. There are still a few in my area that I give quite a lot of my business to.
David B

[Jerry Olexa]

Don't give up on this time-honored craft. There are many good, honest people in this business who take pride in their work and provide quality goods/service.
But as said earlier, you have to seek them out and FIND them. I live in a BIG metro area (cHicago) and still there are only a handful of places and people that I really trust that understand WWers like us. As far as the BORGs, you're on your own when you go there. They are fast and convenient but BUYER BEWARE when buying there. YOU have to the advisor when you go there. You need to know more than they do (pretty easy)..Stay with us. Don't be discouraged. WWers by and large are good, honest, trustworthy people. Hang in there. We need people like you to stay...

[Loren Hedahl]

The problem with the narrow guide slots in your Hitachi saw is also found on other brands; Makita comes to mind.

But all is not lost!

Go up a couple of threads on this forum and make yourself a "SLED", custom made for your Hitachi. It will work far better and more accurate than any after-market miter guide you can buy.

Then install a top quality blade and tune up your little Hitachi. You will be surprised at how smooth the cuts will be that it makes. These are actually great little saws. Many trim carpenters make a very comfortable living with this saw and a compound miter saw as their main power tools.

Good luck and many great projects from your Hitachi!

Loren

[Wilbur Pan]

I think the key to dealing with the big box stores is to know exactly what they are good for, and what to stay away from. I've had two recent good experiences with the local Home Depots recently.

First, I bought a Wagner Power Painter that happened to be on sale. When I opened it, it was obviously a refurbished model, since I could see faint paint splatter on the sprayer. But since it was on sale, I figured that as long as it worked, I'd be happy. Problem was, it didn't work anywhere near what it was supposed to. I brought it back, obviously used, explained the situation, and my credit card was credited within 3 minutes.

Second, I have a project that required building a thick table top. One of the local Home Depots happens to stock kiln dried Douglas Fir 4x4 beams. They are a bit over $12 for an 8 foot 4x4 beam. Of course, I had to pick through the stack to find ones that were usable, but luckily it was on the way home to work. So I would stop in once every 1-2 weeks, pick through the stack, and come away with 3 beams that had at least 6 feet of clear Douglas fir. After a few trips, I had all the clear Douglas fir I needed, at $1.12/board-foot.

However, I do agree that overall buying lumber at a Home Depot is a losing proposition. But they are good for boxed items, like that Power Painter, that can be returned easily if need be.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

Wow! Thank you everyone for the encouragement and support.
You're right, WWers are real stand up people.

I'll be sure to look into finding a better source for materials. One problem is the local "borg" have driven out the other lumber yards in the area. Mail order or Internet buying is difficult since my wife and I both work and there's no one home during the day to accept shipments. I can probably work around that though.

Re: The quality of materials. My analogy here is that I don't expect Prime rib at hamburger and fries prices. If I buy a burger and fries though, I don't expect to be served a stale bun with rancid meat.

Hopefully, someone with the authority to change things at the borg will take notice of threads like this and wake up to the fact that they are shooting themselves in the foot. There must be millions of people like myself that are nearing retirement age that are looking for a new hobby or venture once they have the free time. While I'm no Rockefeller, I am at the point in life where I don't have to pinch every penny.

Loren,
Yes, I'm going to build a sled for it (the Hitachi).
I bought the Hitachi prior to finding SMC. I actually stumbled across SMC while looking for plans on how to build a sled last fall. It was then that I discovered that all the "easy" methods used standard 3/4" materials. I'll have to get creative with the Hitachi.
I guess I'm letting my frustration with that one thing dimish my view of it.
Overall, it seems to be pretty decent. I was impressed the first time I ripped a board to a 2" width. I set the fence at 2" on the guide and ripped the board. It measured dead on from one end to the other at 1 15/16th".:o Oops!:D I know better now and allow for the 1/16" kerf of the blade.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Rich - You have learned a couple of valuable lessons and received some good advice.

First lesson on the saw - Question: Do you know how to tell if a salesman is lying? Answer: If his lips are moving, he's lying. Don't rely on tool salesmen to give you reliable advice, especially in places like HD or Loew's. Do you own research and then go shopping for the best deal on the tool you have already decided to buy.

Second lesson on materials - Don't expect to find decent materials at the Borgs - it simply is not there. When I need the good stuff I go to a hardwood dealer or a woodworkers specialty store. I am lucky to have Woodworkers Source about 15 minutes from home. They are not inexpensive, but they always have the materials I need and it is never damaged. We spend the summers in a cabin near Flagstaff, which is about 30 minutes from the cabin. Flagstaff has a HD and a few lumber yards. I NEVER go to HD looking for materials, unless I need one or two pieces of 2X. I have found it is cheaper (time is money) to call the lumber yard and pay them to deliver materials, rather than mess around trying to buy, return and buy again from HD. Sad but true.

So please stick with this great hobby. Just change your shopping tactics.

[Al Willits]

Rick, newbie here too, I feel your frustration.
Easy to say go to your local lumber yard and buy their stuff, but consider a 4x8 sheet of 3/4 birch shop grade is about $50 where I go, kinda expensive learning wood.

I've been buying the $28 dollar stuff at Menards to learn on, I have to pick though it to find what I consider reasonably straight stuff and the store help has always been great to work with.
They've moved an entire pallet so I could get to some "good" stuff, helped me when I was alone go though a pile, and once when Beasty and I had about 7 or 8 sheets pulled out and sat on another stack of plywood asked if we needed help, I replied no, we're done, and just got to put this stuff back, they replied don't bother, we'll do it.

I think a trip to the managers office is in order in your case, you don't have to settle for bad merchandise.

For good plywood I'd hit the lumber yard, for learning stuff...the Borg is the place to go....unless of course you have way more disposable income than I have....:D

Al

[Paul Wingert]

It's not worth your time, in my opininon to try to find usable wood at HD or Lowes.. About 10 years ago, their cabinent grade plywood, although "B" grade, was usable. It's declined in quality every year. The last time I bought some plywood from HD, it had so many voids, that it ruined my project. Never again.

Try to find another local source to buy your wood and plywood.

[Paul Wingert]

.

Rich

I didn't realize you lived in Akron.. You need to go to Hartville Hardware. They have great plywood at a reasonable price. They have a big sale every November (I think they have another in late winter/early spring) that I use to stock up on Plywood. Check it out. The quality blows away HD, and the prices aren't that much more than the crap at HD.

[Paul Wingert]

Lou,
I love your solution!!! Kind of reminds me of what a friend of mine did to a store years ago. They ticked him off for one reason or another and he went back, filled a cart, then abandoned it in the store for the drones to restock. Hows that for customer service.

Not a good idea.. It may seem funny, but the poor guy that is going to have to restock all that stuff isn't responsible for HD's policy.

[Paul Wingert]

Hello,

Wow! Thank you everyone for the encouragement and support.
You're right, WWers are real stand up people.

I'll be sure to look into finding a better source for materials..

Someone said you live in Akron.. You've got to visit Hartville Hardware. That's pretty close to you. They have great plywood, and their prices are reasonable.

[Pete Brown]

I used to have a little craftsman table saw. The non-standard miter slots in that frustrated the heck out of me too. The strange retaining tabs punched into the slot would have made building a sled a real pain as well, as they'd either pinch, be too loose, or not go in correctly. I eventually gave it to my father-in-law and built (pretty much anyway (http://www.irritatedvowel.com/HomeImprovement/FrankenSaw.aspx)) a new saw to take its place.

Many of the smaller < $250 saws have aluminum tops with the odd-sized miter slots.

If you haven't already, return the saw and get a new one. If it has been less than 30 days, they'll take it back if you have the box. If it has been more, they might still - for a credit anyway.

Pete

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
Again thanks to everyone.
I'll have to take a run down to Hartville Hdw. next week when I'm on vacation.
I still need some beadboard, so hopefully they have some.