So, Jim is it out of the box?

[Don Bullock]

So, Jim is it out of the box yet? Inquiring minds want to know. ;) :D We're waiting for the pictures of the actual item contained in that big box, if there is actually something in it.

[Ted Shrader]

Nah! It was just a box full of rocks. Just enough to get everyone going. ;) :)

Ted

[Cecil Arnold]

I have the feeling Jim is not going to be posting a lot today. I sure wouldn't if I had a nice beastie like that to set up and do a self orientation and test (play with).

[Don Bullock]

I think that Jim is still having too much fun with his new "toy." We've been abandoned.;) :D Hey Jim, we hope all is going well.

[Mark Singer]

Jim is now in the box ....sliding...yes he is so excited he has reverted to his childhood and is more excited about the box then its contents. as he slides he emulates the MM saw....ripping and crosscuting as he slides in both directions with precise accuracy:confused: ...this is a common phenomenon among woodworkers....with a great deal of effort ....a pry bar and some manteca (lard) my wife managed to get me out of the Marcou plane box....it was tight and I was dumb for going in there, but the BFP struck me:rolleyes: (box fetish phenomena)

[Jim Becker]

Yes, it's out of the box. I have a LOT of photos to pick through, massage and then post, so please bear with me. Right now, I want to get out to the shop and do some final things so I can start using the beautiful beast. It really is sweet. In the mean time, here are a couple teaser pictures...

56977

56978

[Per Swenson]

Nice, real nice.


Per

[Mark Singer]

Jim, I think your out pf the box now:rolleyes:

[Gary Keedwell]

Congratulations Jim, you must be exicited. I have been following your adventure vicariously. It has been over ten years since I have experienced the pleasure of waking in the morning and rushing down to my shop to play (err work). My juices are flowing.....now where did I put that confounded catalog?......
Gary K.:D

[Mark Rios]

WOW....nice Super Bowl present Jim. It's nice to see someone else celebrating all of the really important holidays.....Super Bowl Day, Daytona 500 Day, Indy 500 Day, World Series Days, etc. What did you and the family get in your footballs hung on the mantle?

That's a very cool saw!!!!!



:D

[Darryl Lunn]

Jim,

Let me wipe the drool from my face. That is one impressive piece of machinery.

Congrats.

Darryl

[Bart Leetch]

Those foot balls on the mantle must have been(past tense) stuffed with lots of money or a now topped off credit card.

I hope you have loads of fun with your new saw Jim.

Please don't take this wrong but I always find it hard to see shops that are not production shops with production equipment. Especially when I remember back to my Dad struggling along producing cabinets when this equipment was not available even to a production shop.

Gee Jim do you still have room in there if so maybe you need to put in a time-saver or at least W&H moulding machine. I think your this old house could benefit from some moulding.:D

[Jameel Abraham]

I'm pretty new to these big machines, actually I've never seen one before. Very impressive. I always assumed machines of this size were destined for big pro shops, so I always kinda glossed over them. I'm assuming the major feature of this saw is that it moves the panel on a rail system instead of the operator sliding it past the blade, so doing large panels with angles and such is really easy, right? Can someone also explain to how a $9000 table saw would fit into the hobbyist shop setting? (I'm assuming Jim is running a pro cabinet shop, but not sure since I'm kinda new here, and just assuming SMC is hobbyist-based). Can a saw of this magnitude really be used to its potential in a one-man shop?

[lou sansone]

I'm pretty new to these big machines, actually I've never seen one before. Very impressive. I always assumed machines of this size were destined for big pro shops, so I always kinda glossed over them. I'm assuming the major feature of this saw is that it moves the panel on a rail system instead of the operator sliding it past the blade, so doing large panels with angles and such is really easy, right? Can someone also explain to how a $9000 table saw would fit into the hobbyist shop setting? (I'm assuming Jim is running a pro cabinet shop, but not sure since I'm kinda new here, and just assuming SMC is hobbyist-based). Can a saw of this magnitude really be used to its potential in a one-man shop?

on the $ 9000 dollar thing and it must be a pro shop, all I can say is look at ebay and see all of the expensive Harley Davidson motorcycles with less than 5000 miles on them.

[Per Swenson]

Hobbiest,pro,money?

Don't matter.

I have a few hobbies that I rarely discuss, but I pay for em by mangling wood.

Two of them involve R/C vehicals.

One truck, no larger then a tonka dump truck is in to me for $6000.

Now the airplanes, spend 1/2 that on a motor.

I can't fly em and I don't race em.

But I sure enjoy a well built machine.

Per

[Jerry Olexa]

Jim, you ARE da man...Awesome....You're out of the box!!

[Jim Becker]

Bart, to help answer the questions you raised (gracefully, too), I am a hobbyist who builds furniture and cabinetry for my own home. I don't spend money on alcohol (outside of an occasional bottle of good wine for a special meal); I don't smoke and never have; I haven't played golf in 5 years; I don't buy expensive clothes; I don't carry balances on any credit cards and the only debt I have is my mortgage and an auto loan; I do most of my home improvement myself, subcontracting where it makes sense; I put a lot of money into savings; and for this purchase, I saved for over two years to make it happen when the deal was right at the end of 2006. I did use my AMEX card to pay for the saw (points and all that... :) ), but have already sent them the money...

I actually was going to build some of the saw cost into the addition, but with the extra unexpected septic costs, that idea was nixed and I came up with a little more cash through an options exercise. But if we forget about that for a moment, the GC estimate for addition cabinetry, etc., was about $13K. (two baths including a very large master suite bath, a wet bar, a laundry room and some other built-in needs) Let's say I paid $8K for the saw...and then subtract what I sold my cabinet saw and a few other things for. That leaves a really nice opportunity to use great material and still come out way under budget as well as including some additional furniture projects to benefit the new space. Enough savings so that I can pave the 325' driveway plus the parking area in front of my shop--something not included in the budget. And I have a machine that I've wanted to have in my shop since about 2001 when I first saw them at IWF in Atlanta.

I think that Gary illustrates something important, too. In fact, someone I was communicating with recently said, "I could join Lookaway (a private and very expensive country club near my home) or I can invest in some really nice woodworking equipment." This fellow was absolutely correct...and I believe is choosing the woodworking equipment.

Honestly, I think that we all sometimes focus too much on the cost of something and forget there is a lot more behind a purchase decision. Everyone's situation is different. I am thankfully blessed with the ability to equip my shop well now while I am younger...woodworking is my avocation to lower stress, improve the quality of life of my family through the things I make and provide the chance to learn new skills and explore creative ideas...and I do try to share all of that with others along the way. The bottom line should be to buy the best you can afford and try to save a little more for the next level if you can. Key word: save for what you want.

I may do something completely different for the next machine I want, however...find a vintage shaper and restore it. But that will have to wait for quite some time...I have a lot of cabinetry and furniture to build!

----
Jameel, panel cutting is certainly a lot easier, safer and more accurate and repeatable with a sliding table saw. But outside of some of the cabinetry projects I'm working on for the addition, I work primarily in solid stock. With the slider, I gain the ability to do straight-line ripping that is jointer-straight. I gain the ability to keep my hands completely away from the blade at all times (unless doing a conventional rip where it's business as usual) and that is a big safety issue, especially if my girls take a hankering to any woodworking in the future. Most of the time, whatever material I'm cutting is clamped to the wagon (what the Euros refer to the slider as) and that means safety and quality. I just tested this before coming in to eat lunch. Ripped the edges off two cherry boards. The surface was absolutely smooth with zero saw marks...almost like it was hand-planed. The two freshly cut edges went together like they had been carefully jointed...a "glue and go" situation if I was making something. I never had that happen on my cabinet saw, even with the greatest of care. Clamping the material to the slider insured the quality of the edge was as good as it could be...and that was with a Forrest blade that has been in use for over a year without sharpening.

BTW, SMC is a mixture of hobbyists and pros, including many who dabble on both sides of that equation. I like that mix because it offers the ultimate in learning opportunity for all of us.

[Jameel Abraham]

Jim, thanks for the explanation on both the function of the saw and the monetary justification for it. I have to admit, when I saw your post I thought it was a bit ridiculous from a hobbyist standpoint (again, not knowing whether you were pro or not). But I can see your point. I actually justified a purchase a few years ago based on the same criteria. I built two kitchens for my family, and the old Delta xl-10 had to go, so I bought a Unisaw to do the job. It paid for itself the first day. Granted, it's not $9000, but I figured I saved much more than even that doing the cabinets myself. So I can see where you are coming from. I'd personally have a hard time doing the 9k, but it's not like a car, that saw will be worth that for quite some time.

[Dave Harker]

Jim, you do not need to justify this saw to anyone.

This is no different than a car enthusiast buying a Porsche, when a Geo Metro would also do the job.

You are busy, and optimizing for time and safety makes sense, production shop or not.

Enjoy the saw,
Dave

[Larry Fox]

Outstanding addition to your shop Jim - congratulations.

BTW: I post this willing to accept the wrath that just might be coming but when did we stop simply sincerely congratulating a guy on a new toy and start questioning how he spends his money? We can all look around us and see things that we have and don't absolutely NEED but we still have.

[Bruce Page]

Personally, I think how hobbies, mortgages, or how anything else is funded, is nobody’s business but the person doing the funding. I erks me when someone want’s to see my shop and then makes a comment like “I could buy a nice car with what you’ve spent in here” or “how do you validate the cost?” I didn’t ask that person for one plug nickel to fund my shop, why does he/she think I owe them a validation?
Sorry, rant off.

Beautiful equipment Jim. I look forward to seeing the masterpieces that come of of it!

[Keith Starosta]

I do believe that Jim's response was stated a bit more eloquently than the, "Mind your own business", that I would have posted. :rolleyes:

She's a beauty, Jim. I can't wait to see her in person!!

- Keith

[Gary Keedwell]

I'm with Dave, Bruce and Larry on this one, Jim. Everybody is on a different plateau financially speaking. Years ago. I was struggling, and now I'm not. I did not envy people who had more then me...I emulated them.
Sounds like you got your priorities in the right perspective, Jim, and I hope you have a grand time with your new toy, er I mean tool.:)

Gary K.

[Jim Shaver, Oakville Ont]

Hi Jim,

That is one amazing looking table saw......Congrats!

[Wayne Watling]

The only person you need to justify your purchases to are yourself and family. Having said that, you nailed it with your explanation, your reasons for purchase are almost the same as mine - don't smoke or do drugs (never have), very light drink, dont have any other hobbies, dont have children and I saved and went with using what hand tools I had for a good 2 1/2 years to get my machine. I'm just so glad that I purchased quality in the beginning instead of buying upgrade after upgrade never quite happy with the lack of quality found in asian machines sold in North America. Now we can enjoy the machine instead of wishing we had purchased better in the beginning.

Best wishes, enjoyment and fun with your machine.
Wayne

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I doubt it came in a 'box'...:D:D...more like a huge crate or two!! Congrats Jim, that sure is a nice looking saw.

[Mike Cutler]

Very, very nice Jim. That is one fine looking piece of machinery. What is the drawer assemble to the left in the photo? It looks like an "Easy Bake Oven" but I know it's not.

Have fun setting it up.

[Jay Brewer]

Great looking saw Jim, looks like you found just the right spot for it. I think its great that you took your time and SAVED for it in todays" I got to have now" society.

I think my first post on this forum was why are these saws so expensive. After owning on now I know, worth every penny and then some.

Again, congratulations

[Don Bullock]

Wow!!!!It's definately out of the box. :eek:
Congratulations Jim. She's a beauty. Have fun getting her all set up. I am definately looking forward to seeing more and reading more about what it can do.:D

[Jim Becker]

What is the drawer assemble to the left in the photo? It looks like an "Easy Bake Oven" but I know it's not.

That's my router table tucked in behind the right-extension table...good spot to store it as it frees up space elsewhere. I plan on putting a router table next to the slider forward of the blade (same position as a shaper would be in a combo) in the future and may or may not keep the dedicated router table. That will free up space for a very nice rolling tool cabinet for my growing Neander tool assortment. By putting the router table in there when it's not in use, I was able to move the drum sander over so it would not interfere with the slider coming back all the way...something necessary when you change the blade or adjust the riving knife. More on that later.

[Bart Leetch]

I do believe that Jim's response was stated a bit more eloquently than the, "Mind your own business", that I would have posted. :rolleyes:

She's a beauty, Jim. I can't wait to see her in person!!

- Keith

To put it nicely & gently I just nicely said what my thoughts were & Gentleman Jim answered as always a gentleman. I just wish I lived closer to some of the nice people I've met on SMC so I could get to know them better.

[Martin Shupe]

Congratulations, Jim.

[Jim Becker]

I just wish I lived closer to some of the nice people I've met on SMC so I could get to know them better.

I hope you get to meet a bunch of folks from here, Bart. One of the small pleasures I take when saddled with business travel is to try and hook up with folks whenever I can. That's a really big treat...almost better than a new tool. LOL!

[Scott Vigder]

I'd like to comment on a topic Jim touched on, that being he saved his money to buy the saw.

Too many people finance their toys with credit cards, justifying this method of purchase becasue they have an extra $100 each month and need to have that new fangled widget NOW.

For whatever reason, it seems difficult for folks to understand that by saving their money over a period of time and then making a planned purchase with cash, they avoid finance charges that accumulate at an annual rate of 16-20% or more.

A $5000 purchase on a high-interest credit card can take $7000 or $8000 or more to pay off over a few years!

I run our household finances like Jim. Zero credit card debt, planned savings and planned purchases. And saved money may be available for when that shiny new doohickey reaches that irresistable price point. If the money isn't there, the purchase is not made. End of story!

Congratulations on your purchase, the way you bought it, and the way you shared your decision-making process with us. I am proud to be a Creeker. I think I'll break out my SMC hat for the SuperBowl tonight.

[Gary Herrmann]

Nice choice Jim. Don't think I'll ever be able to get one of those down the stairs to my shop, so I'll just have to get my thrills vicariously.


And I'm glad you admitted you're a tease - especially since you only posted two pics. :D

[Scot Ferraro]

Jim,

Congrats on a great tool. Looking forward to hearing about your experiences once you get it up and running.

[Gary Keedwell]

Last post was 6:23. Where did everybody go? Oh well, guess I'll put on the TV and see if there is anything on........

Gary K.

[Christopher Stahl]

Congratulations Jim! I'm drooling over your new purchase. I may have to drive down to play some time in the near future. :)

[Mike Jobe]

Congrads, that is a dream machine all right... :)

[Corey Hallagan]

Awesome Jim and congrats on the new equipment. Enjoy!

Corey

[Tom Sweeney]

WOW Jim,
That sure is a beauty & I'm certain you deserve it. Like you said you could spend 15 or 20 grand just for the upfront fees for some of the country clubs around here. And I've felt your generosity of time and materials first hand.
Have fun with that baby - I hope you have time to enjoy it with the 2 girls & all (hint: when they turn 13 you'll want all your dream tools in place cause you'll be wanting to escape to the sanity of your shop all the time ;) )

PS check The local CL for an old shaper it's on there now. I was thinking of checking it out, but don't have anywhere to put it right now. It's been on for a few days so I'm not sure it's still available.

[Tom Hamilton]

Hey Jim, congrats on your new slider. Can't wait to see the details of the unpacking and assembly.

Best regards, Tom

[Martin Shupe]

I just wish I lived closer to some of the nice people I've met on SMC so I could get to know them better.

Bart, I wish I lived on Whidbey Island. I visited once, a long time ago. My first choice out of flight school was A-6's Whidbey, second was EA-6B's Whidbey. I didn't care so much about what I flew, I just wanted to live in the Pacific NW. The "needs of the Navy" sent me to Jacksonville, FL.:mad:

I was bummed for a long time about those orders.

They say the grass is always greener. I'll bet it is on Whidbey Island.

[Mark Rios]

Jim, I've downloaded your pic and enlarged it, I've been to the company website and poured over the pics and the specs but I just can't for the life of me see where the coffee and the toast come out. And where the heck is the iPod dock??????









:D :D :D

Boy-o-boy that's a nice machine. :cool:

[John Miliunas]

Gee, you must not have a whole lot of non-MM equipment left in that shop! :D Congrats, Jim. Shore is a beauty! :) :cool:

[Karle Woodward]

I guess no one else is gonna ask (maybe you all know), so I will. What does it do? Obviously it cuts wood, but how is better than my $500 Jet? What it the advantage? Just curious as I've never seen one before. It does look impressive.

[Mark Singer]

Jim,
Use it well! Its a beauty! I know you will really enjoy working on this great machine!

[Jameel Abraham]

I guess no one else is gonna ask (maybe you all know), so I will. What does it do? Obviously it cuts wood, but how is better than my $500 Jet? What it the advantage? Just curious as I've never seen one before. It does look impressive.
Karle, check back a few posts. I asked that very question and Jim explained it quite adequately for his application. I didnt know what it was either. I think though that a few people took it the wrong way, maybe like I was criticizing the purchase. (I don't even know Jim or his woodworking situation, so criticizing him would be moot.) I actually took a look at the Minimax website to check it out further, and I'm actually still not sure that what it does is worth ~$8000 more than my Unisaw. Keep in mind that "worth" is the operative word here. I guess some people would readily pay that kind of money to be able to saw up 4x8 sheets with the greatest of ease. I'd rather pocket the 8 grand.

[Rob Will]

Regardless of whether one is a pro or an occaisional user, it makes us feel good to own and use such an engineering masterpiece. Who cares what it cost or what it is used for.

Why do people buy Ferraris when an old beater would provide transportation? ......Because they can.

I can't afford a Ferrari but I still like to look at 'em.

Congratulations Jim!

Rob

[Robert Mahon]

Jim,
I, like many others, have been watching this thread for a while.
Nice to finally see what all the excitement was about.

Back when I was working for a living I heard someone say "Anybody can make good parts using good machines. A REAL Machinist can make good parts on any machine".

With a pice like that even I could (maybe) produce good work.

Nice catch........good for you.

"Rewarding, very, very rewarding".

[Hans Braul]

For the past 8 years I have been involved in Masters rowing. In my youth I was trying to make national team, and was a pretty decent rower. My dream was to own a new single scull. In today's dollars they cost between $8000 and $12,000. Most Olympian wannabees can't afford them. Now, show up to any masters regatta and have a look around. People in their 40's, 50's and 60's (even some 70's and 80's) keeping fit, having a great time, and racing in brand new boats. As far as I'm concerned there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. People following their passion as their budgets allow. Jim, I'm dying to see how this thing works. Looks fantatastic!

Hans

[Tyler Howell]

[quote=Bruce Page] It erks me when someone want’s to see my shop and then makes a comment like “I could buy a nice car with what you’ve spent in here” or “how do you validate the cost?”

I often get " you could buy a really nice boat with what you spent down here:mad: " I tell them they could buy some really nice tools with what they spent on their boat.
Nice haul Jim. You made it you spend it!!!!;)

[Jim Becker]

Folks, I'm still working on the pictures...got 20 done last night before bed, but I had a 5am conference call/web presentation to some folks in Europe this morning, so I couldn't stay up late to finish. There are a LOT of photos (thankfully) and a lot to write for them...thanks in advance for your continued patience... ;)

[Keith Starosta]

Folks, I'm still working on the pictures...got 20 done last night before bed, but I had a 5am conference call/web presentation to some folks in Europe this morning, so I couldn't stay up late to finish. There are a LOT of photos (thankfully) and a lot to write for them...thanks in advance for your continued patience... ;)

5:00am?!?!?!?! I can only assume it's an overseas client....sheesh!!!

Take your time, Jim. Ain't nobody goin' anywhere....:D


- Keith

[Joanne Adler]

Sorry folks. It's partly my fault it's taking Jim so long to post the pictures. One of my main jobs on Saturday was to take the pictures. I try to be good at my jobs! And Jim has such a cool Nikon that it was great fun to use and snap pictures all over the place. So I did. And when I wasn't doing so, Jim or Robert probably was! Consequently, Jim has oodles of pictures to sort through. If you know anything about Jim, you know his write-ups are detailed, thorough, and full of great pictures. The Wait will be worth it!

This is one amazing saw! Some of you ask what it does or what it does that your Unisaw doesn't do. I'm sure Jim will respond, but I will say this--Simply: it cuts wood. But it does so with incredible ease, accuracy, and neatness. There is a scoring blade to help eliminate chipping on plywood or melamine, although, even without it the stock blade made a clean cut on plywood. Even a short woodworker (like me at 5'2½") can safely cut a full sheet of ply or mdf or something big on this saw. I cannot do that on my tablesaw safely. In the time it would take to cut a sheet to accurate size on this saw, I'd still be fussing with a straight edge to make a rough cut with a circular saw or jigsaw. Or more likely, I'd still be measuring to place the straight edge or line and making sure wasn't going to cut through my electrical cord! I didn't get to witness general crosscutting or ripping, but I'm sure it makes those tasks just as easy and simple.

So, ease, accuracy, safety, verstility, timesaving. For someone who builds cabinets and large furniture, this saw saves time, material, and makes the finish look professional. Even for a hobbyist, if you want your projects to look good (and not consume your entire life), that's important.

So be patient. Jim will make your wait for his review worth it.

[Keith Outten]

No matter what a mans passion it is a real joy to reach a personal goal.

Congratulations on your new saw Jim, it's a real beauty.

.

[Al Willits]

""""""""""""""
I'm pretty new to these big machines, actually I've never seen one before. Very impressive. I always assumed machines of this size were destined for big pro shops, so I always kinda glossed over them. I'm assuming the major feature of this saw is that it moves the panel on a rail system instead of the operator sliding it past the blade, so doing large panels with angles and such is really easy, right? Can someone also explain to how a $9000 table saw would fit into the hobbyist shop setting? (I'm assuming Jim is running a pro cabinet shop, but not sure since I'm kinda new here, and just assuming SMC is hobbyist-based). Can a saw of this magnitude really be used to its potential in a one-man shop?
"""""""""""""

I don't think that was a poor question at all, and I don't think he was asking Jim to validate why he bought it personally, I think as a newbie he wanted to know (correct me if I'm wrong) how a hobbyist could justify that much money on a saw?
The average person can't, considering a wood working shop full of comparable tools would be more than the average person prob makes in a year, $9000 (?) is more than most will spend on a saw.
Take a poll here on this forum, how many have a 9k saw??
Small percentage I bet...very small.

Jim and others have evidently the disposable income to purchase these types of upper end equipment, whether they gave up other hobbies, lifestyle changes, or just hit the power ball, they have the ability and desire to buy one of these things, not all do.
I would probably bet, anybody in a logical frame of mind would not recommend a person of limited financial ability, buy one of these, considering the total cost of setting up a functioning wood shop, a 9k saw would break most of us.

So for him to ask why, after Jim posted he bought one, I don't think is being rude...imho
Think technical, not personal maybe.

btw, damn nice saw Jim, or whatever it is....:D

[Jim Becker]

5:00am?!?!?!?! I can only assume it's an overseas client....sheesh!!!

Nope...internal call. I was doing sales and technical training on a new solution for our associates on the "other side of the pond". (Fortunately, I remembered to set the timer on the espresso machine to come on early enough to be fully heated by the time I got up...) Such is life in a global economy!

[Don Bullock]

Folks, I'm still working on the pictures...got 20 done last night before bed, but I had a 5am conference call/web presentation to some folks in Europe this morning, so I couldn't stay up late to finish. There are a LOT of photos (thankfully) and a lot to write for them...thanks in advance for your continued patience... ;)

Take you time Jim. I know we all are looking forward to your report, but you do have other things you need to get done and I'm sure that time with your new saw is one of them. Again --- Congratulations!!!!:D

[Greg Cole]

That is one beaut of a machine Jim!
From everything I've seen & read from you, you and the contents of the aforementioned box will serve eachother well, very well indeed.

[Zahid Naqvi]

I know who I will be visiting the next time I go to Philly :cool:

Nice acquisition Jim.

[Dennis Peacock]

She's a real beauty Jim. Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Todd Solomon]

Yes, it's out of the box. I have a LOT of photos to pick through, massage and then post, so please bear with me. Right now, I want to get out to the shop and do some final things so I can start using the beautiful beast. It really is sweet. In the mean time, here are a couple teaser pictures...


Looks great, Jim! It looks like they've made a lot of improvements since my SC4-WS (which had the same chassis and slider as the S315). Frame looks different and beefier, slider looks beefier, nicer controls. I'm going to IWF this year, so I'll swing by and check the beast out. Looks absolutely at home in that shop. It looks like you custom-built and painted your router table to match that MM.

Regarding justifying my sliding table saw, I just point in the driveway. I bought my SUV for $20K. I would say that the average price of the cars and trucks driven by my friends is about $30K (some a lot more expensive, especially the SUVs). There ya go, $30K - $20K = sliding table saw.

Todd

[Paul B. Cresti]

Beautiful saw Jim. You know it gets my approval and why. Looking forward to exchanging ideas with you...

[Jim Guy]

I don't post alot, I guess because I don't know alot. However I'm here most every day. (By the way, I don't talk much either.) Some of the comments about how Jim spends his money are just unbelieveable to me. If he spent 20K for a Harley or 30K for a boat, many think that would be acceptable. What he has purchased is a tool that will help produce a product and bring joy to not only himself but to others. I don't know Jim personally but from where I stand he seems always ready to share his knowledge. I don't need to know anything about his finances or how much he spends in his shop. I'm hope your comments have not robbed him of any of the joy of an addition to his shop. And what an addition!
Looking forward to the pics.

[Alex Berkovsky]

Jim,
Polzuisya nazdorovye! Ask your daughters to translate. :D

[Mike Holbrook]

Nice saw Jim. I was just looking at Mini Max at the Atlanta wood working show. All I want is a MM16 Band Saw and a FS30 Jointer Planer. Then I can turn some of my trees into boards. One day!

Congratulations, enjoy!

[Jim Becker]

Jim,
Polzuisya nazdorovye! Ask your daughters to translate.
They can't...after over a year of not speaking Russian, other than just for the first few months...they no longer speak or understand more than a few words. But I thank you for your kind good wishes!

OK, folks...I have 61 pictures prepared and am working on the text. With any luck, I'll have a thread up tonight with all the gory details...:eek::o:p:D

[Alex Berkovsky]

They can't...after over a year of not speaking Russian, other than just for the first few months...they no longer speak or understand more than a few words. But I thank you for your kind good wishes!
I see - then I will translate... Use it in good health.

[Jake Helmboldt]

I guess no one else is gonna ask (maybe you all know), so I will. What does it do? Obviously it cuts wood, but how is better than my $500 Jet? What it the advantage? Just curious as I've never seen one before. It does look impressive.

Well I don't speak from experience, but I can tell you I'd bet my paycheck that it will do a lot of things better than your (and my) saws. After just spending a lot of time (AGAIN) aligning the trunnions on my Powermatic 64A only to have it go out of adjustment as soon as I cranked it over to a full 45 degree bevel, the MM and others of that caliber will be virtually dead on at all adjustments, and will stay there I imagine.

On top of that, Jim mentioned he is doing a kitchen cabinet remodel. If his is a slider (which I believe it is) he will whip through sheet goods while you and I are struggling to avoid eating a full size sheet of ply or at the least, getting a clean cut.

I say, if you've got the money and can actually do the saw justice with your skill, spend the money. I would if I could.

JH

[Jim Becker]

I see - then I will translate... Use it in good health.

Alex, the girls can't do the Russian thing any more, but I translated it on sight. Strangely enough, some of the language I learned "stuck". Not enough to converse, but more than I expected.
----

Jake, the kitchen was back in 2003--documented on my web site. This is an 1850 sq ft, two story addition with a master suite including a large master bath, laundry room and study (my new office) upstairs and a guest bedroom, guest bath, large multi-purpose room, foyer and new front entry on the first floor. Lots of opportunity to put the whole shop to work. You can see some renderings at the addition BLOG I started awhile back (but have been remiss posting to) in the plans link on the left-side menu. http://toscax.us/blog/addition.htm

[nic obie]

I don't post alot, I guess because I don't know alot. However I'm here most every day. (By the way, I don't talk much either.) Some of the comments about how Jim spends his money are just unbelieveable to me. If he spent 20K for a Harley or 30K for a boat, many think that would be acceptable. What he has purchased is a tool that will help produce a product and bring joy to not only himself but to others. I don't know Jim personally but from where I stand he seems always ready to share his knowledge. I don't need to know anything about his finances or how much he spends in his shop. I'm hope your comments have not robbed him of any of the joy of an addition to his shop. And what an addition!
Looking forward to the pics.


That's right. Enough said.

[Dave Malen]

Jim,
You don't have to justify it to anybody. What a great tool . My motto . Life is short. Do what makes you happy.

Dave

[Terry Hatfield]

j,

Super nice!!! Congrats!!!

t

[Jim Becker]

Ok, have at it folks!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=51276

[Al Willits]

"""""""""""
I guess no one else is gonna ask (maybe you all know), so I will. What does it do? Obviously it cuts wood, but how is better than my $500 Jet? What it the advantage? Just curious as I've never seen one before. It does look impressive.
"""""""""""
I think some of you are a bit paranoid or something, guy asks what the saw will do that his cheaper saw won't, or someone asks what the saw does to justify 9k and you come unglued, chill out a bit will ya.
btw a 20k Harley ain't a good example, standard road bikes now days costs close to 15k+, consider the saw he bought costs percentage wise way more than the Harley over another bike.
So I'll repeat myself again...
"So for him to ask why, after Jim posted he bought one, I don't think is being rude...imho
Think technical, not personal maybe."

Al

[Kelly C. Hanna]

In just about everything in life there is a good/better/best selection. Jim chose the best category for his new saw.

You can drive to work in a 1970 Cherolet truck like I do or a brand new $45k living room on wheels. They both have very similar functions, one is more luxurious and easier to start in the morning. While Jim's saw may not be for everyone, it is what he wants for his shop. I can safely say that given the choice, I'd pick that one too!

[Al Willits]

I think we're mixing up him buying the saw, and what the saw does, personally I'm glad for him, bit envious maybe...:)
But I think what at least three of us are wondering is, what the heck does it do to make it worth 9k?
I understand quaility and such, being a Bridgeport, Harding and Starrett fan, but it seems there's several of us who haven't a clue on sliding saws.
So we asked why?
Its not a PERSONAL thing.
Al...who just loves the written word......usually

[Jim Becker]

Al, you've asked the same questions several times. I and some others will try...over time...to help you understand some of the functional advantages of this kind of machine over a typical North American design saw. Paul Cresti already has a series of informative threads and I plan on complimenting them with my own comments. One clear advantage is safety, but there are many others. Please bear with on that. I personally need to spend my time right now learning new methods and getting going on my many cabinetry and furniture projects that must be completed in the next 6-8 months. (largely on weekends)

As to the cost...I can't justify it to you or anyone else, only to me. The machine costs what it costs. I put a lot of thought into my own needs...and desires...and acted on them when I was able to do so and when the deal was right. (in other words, I didn't pay the posted list price) That's pretty much where I'm going to leave the topic of cost at this point as I already addressed it in this thread earlier. ;)

Please open your mind that there are many ways to do things and even if one way isn't the best for you, learning about it can be an enriching experience. It really isn't about cost.

[Al Willits]

Let me try again, I've asked several times because I evidently am not asking my question correctly.
I don't give a darn as to what you paid, neither should anyone else, suffice to say the list price appears to be about 9k and let those who want to buy one make their own deals.
You want to offer a better way to buy it, more power to ya, but that's neither here or there.
Personally I and others were curious as what the saw did to warrant the expenditure, it must have some benefit???

I was also more in response to those who seem to take it personal that someone had the nerve to ask you what made you buy it, and that they were in the wrong to ask.
These posts were not directed at you, btw.

If they had asked how could you buy this saw while your family starved, THAT would have been personal ...imho

I think maybe when it gets so your critized for asking someone about a tool they bought, its time to quit asking.
Al

[Todd Solomon]

Let me try again, I've asked several times because I evidently am not asking my question correctly.
I don't give a darn as to what you paid, neither should anyone else, suffice to say the list price appears to be about 9k and let those who want to buy one make their own deals.
You want to offer a better way to buy it, more power to ya, but that's neither here or there.
Personally I and others were curious as what the saw did to warrant the expenditure, it must have some benefit???

I was also more in response to those who seem to take it personal that someone had the nerve to ask you what made you buy it, and that they were in the wrong to ask.
These posts were not directed at you, btw.

If they had asked how could you buy this saw while your family starved, THAT would have been personal ...imho

I think maybe when it gets so your critized for asking someone about a tool they bought, its time to quit asking.
Al

Hi Al,

Mark Duginske wrote an article that does a very good job of communicating the benefits of a sliding table saw. Patrick Anderson was kind enough to post it on his site. Take a read, this should answer your questions. If not, you can ask Mini Max or Felder to send you a video. Pretty compelling, once you've seen these things work. I've been using them for years, I'm a certifiable fanatic of sliding table saws. Here's the link:

http://www.siliconbauhaus.com/misc/Duginske.pdf

-Todd

[Paul B. Cresti]

OOPs should have posted this here...these two simultaneous posts are getting me dizzy. Please my post at the endhttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=520750#post520750

[Keith Outten]

Once you use a slider, even an aftermarket add-on slider, you will never look at a table saw the same again. Everything you machine is done differently and almost all of your saw sleds and jigs can go right to the dumpster.

Jim's new saw is probably a bit more precise than lower priced saws, this is evident when you can machine lumber without saw marks. I expect there are lots of other reasons but for my money the slider is the big attraction in the higher end table saws.

.

[Al Willits]

Whew!
Thank you Todd and Keith, these were the answers I, and I'm assuming the other two posters were looking for, nothing personal about this..imho

Al...who's gonna go lurk for awhile.

[Al Willits]

Jim, I must apologize to you, I never intended my post to continue on and probably spoil what should have been a great topic.

This was not a personal quest as to why you were able to buy it, just what mechanically made the saw worth was it is.
I believe the two others that asked this question had that same thought in mind, not a refection on your personal habits, or lifestyle.
Once again, my apologies for bringing rain to your parade.
We just wanted to know more about the saw.
Al

[Jim Becker]

Not a problem at all, Al...asking questions is what this community is all about.

[Jerry Olexa]

I don't think Jim will ever buy a tool again and post it:) :D Sure stirred the pot...Enjoy your new tool, Jim

[Jim Becker]

Of course I will, Jerry. Didn't you know that tools are like Crack... :D

[Mark Pruitt]

Jim, for some reason here I am over here in the Flatwork Forum, I guess because I didn't get any spinny stuff done this weekend:eek: but I do wanna say that's one beauty of a machine. (I gotta hurry back over to the Abyss--ENJOY that new tool!)

[George Morris]

Jim great saw, use it in good health! Who ever took the pictures did a fantastic job! Good to see you had such great friends to help with the unvalling and the explanations were great with the pictures, good luck with it ,I can't wait to see the finished projects! George

[Jameel Abraham]

Great article by Duginske. Great answer to my original question. Now I can see why Jim is so excited about this purchase. I kinda feel like my 3 year old Unisaw is now a dinosaur. Time to do some research on sliders....:D

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I didn't think you meant anything adverse in your original post, but I do think the way it was worded gave some folks pause. I don't own a slider, but I think I can shed a bit of light.

The ability to cut a 4x8 panel of anything safely and easily is something else not done on a cabinet or contractor saw. Even with tables on all sides, it's much easier on a slider. The whole sheet moves with the big table through the blade so there's no pushing just the plywood, you push the sliding carriage with the plywood or solid stock firmly supported.

Accuracy is the name of the game in fine woodworking. At my shop, I cannot get nearly as accurate of a cut as Jim and Steve can in their shops. Being a carpenter at heart and just having a bit of experience in the finer furniture end of the vocation, I don't work in those extremely accurate worlds. I would love to have the shop equipped to do so someday.

Where your Jet is more accurate than most contractor saws like the one I have, the big sliders are more accurate still. They offer superior dust collection and safety and as far as I know they are also much longer lasting tools cause they are built like battleships.

The bottom line is until you see one and see it work, you will probably still wonder no matter what anyone types in this forum. There's really no answer that takes the place of seeing one in action.

[Steve Jenkins]

Jim congrats on the new saw. I know you will enjoy the ease with which you can accomplish many tasks that are near impossible with a U.S. type table saw without a lot of jigging-up.
Use it in good health.

[Jerry Olexa]

Of course I will, Jerry. Didn't you know that tools are like Crack... :D
Jim, I know it well. Just bought a new Delta 12"CMS which was an upgrade and now looking for a Framing nailer for a project in the shop. Ah, the never ending quest for Tools..Keeps us out of trouble, I suppose:) :D

[Chris Padilla]

Sweet!!!!

Wish I had room for that beauty...perhaps one, perhaps one day! Hmm, do I really need a 1/2 bath on the first floor............

Forgive the question, is this machine a combo at all or "just a slider" (and don't take that wrong! ;) )

[Jim Becker]

machine a combo at all or "just a slider" (and don't take that wrong! )

Just a slider. I toyed with the saw/shaper combo, but it pushed the limit beyond my savings and budget.