Router mishap?

[Al Willits]

Hopefully I can explain this well enough to make sense.
Last night I was making the base for some storage cabinets I'm making, the base was white oak and 1x4" in size, I had the 4 pieces cut and will screw adjustable feet into the bottoms because the basement floor isn't perfectly level.

I thought I'd cut a kinda flatten n section out of each bottom piece so the base wasn't flat all the way around.
Made a couple of jigs with the curve and traced out on the base pieces and cut with the band saw, so far so good.

Then double sided taped the jig back onto the piece and was gonna used a flush trim router to remove the excess the saw left.
Jig on top of the piece, router jig had bearing on outer end and set at the level of the jig....still good so far....

Router bit was 1.5" and was long enough to do the inch thick piece in one pass, but I knew I to take easy passes, so I started to feed the piece into the router, that's were the problem starts.
I'm using a router table and a PC router btw
Part of the piece disappeared, another part has cut tracks across it and what was left was still partially in my hands.
I also am two band aids short in my first aid kit.

I'm guessing the cutter caught the edge of the wood, and with the thickness of the wood, it didn't cut as it was fed in, but hooked (?) the piece enough to pull it in further and then launched itself?

Was thinking of buying the Rigid belt/spindle sander and this might just speed that up a bit, but I'd like to know what I should have done to prevent this....other than not doing it...:D

Thanks for any help, not having someone here to help with the learning curve, you all have been a great help.

Al.....who's just bought more band aid stock

[Joe Pelonio]

Which way did you feed it? If you go the wrong way the rotation of the bit will do this, freehand or on a table. Clockwise on inside edges, counterclockwise on outside edges, feed the table right to left.

[Mark Singer]

Al,
Double stick tape on small pieces doesn't work! They need to be held in a sled or small parts jig with hohld downs...r clamps. Catching the end grain probably did it. Itis better to work away from the edges starting at the center. Thatt way you don't ever catch...sorry....could have been worse.
I have seen more router accidents on SMC then any other machine or tool.

[Al Willits]

Standing at the table, the wood between me and the bit and starting at the right side, going right to left, is what I was attempting.
Al

[Al Willits]

Thanks Mark, sounds like exactly what happened.
No more double sided tape on small things.
I don't have a clamp system that will work for something like that, probably will though..:)
Any suggestions?

For now I'll finish the project with a sander, probaly safer till I can come up with a better way to use the router and table.
But next time I'll start in the middle, makes sense if ya think about it, thanks.

Al

[Kyle Kraft]

I made a baseplate for the skull of a European mount which was essentially a tracing around the skull on a piece of Red Oak. There are some contours which will result in a climb cut into end grain no matter what you do. How can a feller deal with those situations?

[Carol Reed]

Wood between you and the bit, moving wood right to left was a climb cut. You are fortunate you only needed two bandaids.

You see a router bit in a table spin in a clockwise direction. Wood movement has to be left to right to feed into the cutter when the wood is between you and the bit.

As for holding the wood. The smaller the piece, the bigger the sled. Give the bit something to bite into besides your hands. Stops on the sled work real well. I pin nail stops against the wood on edges not being routed. Then add DS tape underneath. Never use DS tape by itself.

Or make a vacuum jig. Still need the stops, though.

Many ways to skin that cat.

2 cents worth. You probably have change coming. :)

[Al Willits]

Little confused here Carol, I'm using the Rockler table with a PC router hanging underneath it, I was told to hold the work next to the fence and feed right to left.
It has worked up to this time when I didn't use the fence, with what you say I'm gonna figure I've been lucky up to this point?

So general rule of thumb is feed left to right on a router table then?

Kept my fingers away from the bit, but the wood departed fast enough to tear a finger nail....stuff happens fast in this hobby....:)
Al

[Carol Reed]

Sorry I wasn't more clear. And I was wrong!

Let's try this:

bit with bearing
(as you look at it in the table, it is spinning counter-clockwise)

wood

you

push wood from right to left

I had to go get a router bit and look! I have been in school too long. How soon I forget!

or with a fence:

fence
bit exposed from fence

wood

you

push wood along the fence from right to left.

As for quick, darn tootin'!

[Russ Filtz]

You can climb cut successfully on both the table and handheld. I do this on pieces that tend to splinter otherwise. The trick is to take VERY light cuts and be VERY careful! I usually cut the piece normally in passes, and then do a climb cut to the finished level taking off as little wood as possible. Doing this you minimize the chance of launching the piece.

Also remember doing freehand pieces on the table to use a starting pin to initially brace the work.

[Al Willits]

Thanks all, I have a few things to work on now, starting pins and clamps for a start.
I also wondered over to the local Borg and picked up the Rigid oscillating belt/spindle sander, figure I'll use that when possible, least wises till me and my router become friends again...:)
Al

[Charlie Kocourek]

Hi Al,

Thanks for the post. I'm glad to hear that it was only a 2 band aid incident.

[Al Willits]

No prob Charlie, I see a few other newbies posting from time to time and if me ending up in a few band aids helps them, I feel I've not only helped myself, but them too.
Things happen very fast in this hobby, I've learnt to try and do things with body parts as far away and safe as possible, kinda hard at times though.
Al

[Vijay Kumar]

As others have pointed you were climb cutting. Generally a no no. There are few exceptions.

What helps is if you were to draw the spinning direction of the bit with a sharpie marker on the table then it is always a visual cue as to how to feed the stock.( as you look down on the table from above it will be counter clockwise.
Hope this helps.

[Mike Cutler]

Al.

I might also recommend some books. Pat Warner, Bill Hylton, and of course Carol Reed are considered to be authorities on the router.

A router can do a lot of damage very fast. It can cost you a lot of $$$ and time if it gets away from you. Even if you don't get hurt.


Carol.
You sold some routers to buy a lathe!:eek: :eek: . Well, at least it spins.
You'll always be the Router Lady, no matter what your sig says.;)

[Al Willits]

Thanks again, Mike I've read a bit on router usage, also read a bit on TS, BS,CS,Plate cutters, and who knows what else, this old guy just has a bit of trouble keeping it all straight....its that learning curve again...:)

I'm getting so I do the same thing when I drag raced bikes, get my program all together, and just before lining up to start the race, go though it all again, just missed it this time, hadn't used a jig and flush trim bit in that scenario before, I should have known/remembered about climb though.....brain fade strikes again.

Piece by piece I'm getting my power tools and me to function more safely, due in a major part to to you all.
I gotta thank ya all for helping me, I think the reason nothing major has happened is due in a big part to stuff I've picked up on this forum, so thanks for putting up with me.

Al

[Joe Petersen]

At least I'm not alone. I did the same thing today. 'Cept it took more then a band-aids worth. The edge of my finger. It caught the end grain. The worst part is now I have to re-make the piece.

[Alan Greene]

Al,
Here is one option for holding small parts. Other places have similar items.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/accessorysafe.html

No affiliation etc.

I am glad you only required 2 band aids

[Mike Goetzke]

I made a baseplate for the skull of a European mount which was essentially a tracing around the skull on a piece of Red Oak. There are some contours which will result in a climb cut into end grain no matter what you do. How can a feller deal with those situations?

I'm by no way an expert but I have an excellent book on using the router (Woodworking with the Router - Bill Hylton). I'm pretty sure on this that to avoid catching the grain you flip the work piece over (leaving the template on) and rout using a bit with a bearing on the opposite side of the bit (i.e if you started w/ top bearing go to a bottom bearing). I can't remember off-hand but I recall there is also a reason to use as large of diameter of bit as possible. It's explained and shown much better in the book.

Mike

[Al Willits]

Hopefully you'll heal quick Joe, my biggie was cleaning the oil off my 8" jointer and not noticing the blades had turned a bit, I used many band aids and towels to get them cuts to stop bleeding....

Looks good Alan, the piece I was doing might not have fit in that holder, but it might be a good tool to have, I can see me making something like that only a bit bigger too, thanks.

I had always thought the table saw would be the big culprit in accidents, but I'm starting to believe Mark when he says its routers, seem I read so much about sliding saws, sawstops and just general posts on any and all safety devices for TS, routers just kinda got forgot about....well at least until I launched a piece of wood off my router...
Mike, I'll look for that book, thanks.
Al

[John Buzzurro]

Hi Al,
As far as holding small pieces at the router table, I use this one: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5296

Works like a charm.

[Al Willits]

Thanks John, Alan already suggested it, must be a popular tool..:)
Like I said before, not sure if it would have held the 1x15x4" piece I was working on, but for under $20 looks like a good deal anyway.

And it does seem to keep the fingers even further away from them Oh so sharp blades.

I went though a bit of a learning curve with my TS, well, actually more than a bit, but with the sleds, buddies, magnetic finger boards, push sticks, reading this forum, and several books, to now be able to at least get though most of the day with out launching something into the garage door...or me.
I guess its the routers turn now...:)

This stuff isn't exactly plug and play is it? :)

I figure I'm having a bit more trouble with all this than most, but I will say for any of the other newbies out there, be careful, this is a hobby that can bite...and take big chunks too.

Al....you old timers be safe to....:D

[Terry Flowers]

As others have pointed you were climb cutting. Generally a no no. There are few exceptions.

What helps is if you were to draw the spinning direction of the bit with a sharpie marker on the table then it is always a visual cue as to how to feed the stock.( as you look down on the table from above it will be counter clockwise.
Hope this helps.

Carol already corrected her incorrect post. You might want to do the same, so no one is confused. He was NOT climb cuuing. Feeding right to left is the correct direction for that operation on a router table.

Just a suggestion.

Terry

[Richard Keller]

You see a router bit in a table spin in a clockwise direction. Wood movement has to be left to right to feed into the cutter when the wood is between you and the bit.


Uhh... If you are looking down at the router table the bit is going COUNTER clockwise and feeding from right to left is correct with the wood between you and the bit. (I just went and checked my router table to make sure - because I have always feed from right to left, with no launch sequence activated.)

I would recommend using a starting pin with any router bit with a bearing. I assume because you had curves, you wern't using a fence. The bit may have grabbed the corner, if you tried to start at the end. The piece may have pulled sideways, and then activated the launch sequence.

Richard.

[Al Willits]

""""""""""
I would recommend using a starting pin with any router bit with a bearing. I assume because you had curves, you wern't using a fence. The bit may have grabbed the corner, if you tried to start at the end. The piece may have pulled sideways, and then activated the launch sequence.
""""

You are correct, no fence or starting pin, this was one side of a base that a storage cabinet was gonna sit on and between the corners I put a radius to give it a better look.
Radius is probably the wrong word, but think a flattened n between each corner..ya see it a lot in cabinets or sideboards. Sorry, not sure what to call it.
But I did start at the edge, next time in the middle though.
Al

[Al Willits]

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Had a couple of PM's and it appears maybe there's a bit of confusion on what I was doing, if these pictures load you should be able to see what I was doing.
The three small pieces are what was attached to the right side, they were part of the original piece.
Hope this helps.
Al

[Don Bullock]

Al,
I'm glad you're fine and ready to tackle the router table again.

There are many of us out here just like you that are new to all this. I just used my router table on it's first project after some practicing. Your post made me more aware of the dangers and I stepped up my precautions. Thanks for posting. BTW --- It all came out great. I'll post pictures when the project is done.

[Al Willits]

No problem Don, glad to do it.
This is one definite hobby that can bite you, and if my having to use a few band aids helps someone else be aware, and not do the same thing, it was worth it.
Did use the my Laminate router today and have to admit I was a bit nervous, it all worked out well, but I doubt the indentations of my fingers will come out of the router...:)
Al

[jonathan snyder]

Al,
Glad you are OK. Get a starting pin. I just drilled my insert for one today before doing some pattern routing. Having something to brace your work against when you engage the bit, make it feel much safer. The other thing I have found that helps when pattern routing is to band saw as close as possible to your line.

I'm sure you could make a starting pin, but I got a brass one from Hartville Tool, $2.99 IIRC.

Jonathan

[David Rose]

Al,

The part that you are working requires you to start at the left edge and work toward the right to not be climb cutting. Thanks for the pics. That does explain things better. A climb cut is basically moving the wood in the same direction that the cutter wants to move it. When you are feeding *against* the cutter, it is a normal cut. Think about the way that the cutter would shove it if you just pushed the wood gently into the cutter. A normal cut has you forcing the wood in the opposite direction or into the cutter.

I wouldn't try either without a starting pin. With a pin, feeding gently but with good support, a normal cut is usually not a "grabby" cut. However, coming out on the right end of your piece would likely have a bunch of tearout. Any corner cuts coming at a right angle to the grain will probably tear out.

If I were doing a pattern cut on a piece like you show, ideally I would do like another user suggested with the bearing on the opposite of what you used for that part of the part (flipping the part). Otherwise, I would set the cutter about 1/2" from the fence and gently climb cut to the fence on that corner taking a little at a time. If it "kicks", it shouldn't move the part far enough to be alarming. Then when you feed from the normal cut direction into the area where you made the climb cut, you shouldn't tear out the corner.

David

[Lynn Sonier]

Was doing frames for mirrors a while back. Had trouble going out against the grain and came up with the following: Use two routers - one with a top bearing bit and the other with a bottom bearing. I cut about half the frame on the router table, with the bottom bearing bit and then, using the handheld, cut the rest. Didn't have any trouble with tear out as everything was cut going downhill.

[glenn bradley]

That looks like how I do it. I do keep my cuts down to about 1/16 by trimming on the BS or using a jigsaw first. I have had the experience of a piece of wood just blowing out when all else seemed fine. Did the same cut on another piece with no problem. Same bit, same setup. I assume there was just something in the grain of that particular piece. You are right though, when it happens it happens fast. Just a reminder to me that we need to be ready for the unexpected, even when all seems well. Glad it was only band-aids. Get better soon.

[Al Willits]

Lots of good info, thanks.
Is there a reccomended spot to put a starter pin, or does it depend on the piece you doing?
I can see how that would help.
Lots of stuff to remember...:)

Al

[jonathan snyder]

Lots of good info, thanks.
Is there a reccomended spot to put a starter pin, or does it depend on the piece you doing?
I can see how that would help.
Lots of stuff to remember...:)

Al

Al,

I was wondering the same thing yesterday. I placed the pin to the right and a little forward of the bit. That was not the best placement, as the heart shape I was routing hit the pin a couple of times. I plan to re-drill (its a shop-made acrylic plate - so no big deal) the plate tonight and install it to the right and a little to the rear of the bit.

Hope my mistake helps you!

Jonathan

[Al Willits]

Thanks Johnathan, I'm thinking a few holes might be in order, but didn't want it to look like swiss cheese, maybe someone else has a suggestion?
Al

[Brad Kimbrell]

Here is my answer to router problems after I learned of the ability of the machine to launch parts around the shop. Someone here recommended a lead in and lead out "ramp" to transition into the piece being cut.

Big handles (away from the bit) and secure toggle clamp to hold the piece.

These two sleds allow me to cut both sides of the lids to an odd-shaped jewelry box.

Now I can operate with much less risk to the wood and to my forehead / fingers!

Good luck and be safe.

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[Kyle Kraft]

Mike,

That sounds reasonable, but I was using a Roman ogee profile bit, and wanted that form on one side of the plaque only. If I flipped the part over it would look funny.

[Al Willits]

fwiw
In case anybody other than me has had problems with their router table and launching wood, the Fine Woodworking magazine April issue #190 has a excellent article on routers and router table use.
They show a jig for doing template routing and a method that should keep the wood launches to a minimum.

Al

[Rod Sheridan]

I agree, I always extend the pattern shape beyond both ends of the workpiece. This, in addition to a starting pin, makes for smooth, safe transitions into and out of the workpiece.

Good to hear that you weren't seriously injured........Rod.