Is It Art

[Glenn Hodges]

This is an age old question for us woodturners. When I do a show a few people offer a compliment about me being an artist or my work being art. I never argue with them, and I never call my work art. I think of it as me making something. When I did my first show I was put in my place by 2 gentlemen while I was setting up my booth. One was a deputy sheriff and one was a security guard. I think I was the first woodturner at this show, and they were watching me pretty closely. When I unpacked a hollowform and placed it on the table one of them asked me what it was used for. I asked them if they had ever heard of art before? The deputy said, "Sure have, he works at the service station across from the tobacco warehouse downtown." They put me in my place and taught me a valuable lesson.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Great lesson Glen! Thanks.:)

[Glenn Clabo]

Glenn,
As I grow up I more and more appreciate what people like you create...When people say things like that to me now...I smile and wonder what they find enjoyable in their lives. The definition of "art" is "the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others." Why would you not believe what you do is art? Me thinks you are cutting yourself short by letting some people who can't (or don't want to because of some macho thing) appreciate your skill. You have the right to call yourself whatever you want...but an artist you are.

[John Hart]

The culmination of our life experiences is what we are....and how we think of things. Everyone has myriad life experiences unique from everyone else and we can't expect anyone to see things the same way as another. Someone may have met an artist early in life that was a complete idiot, and therefore associates art with morons. Conversely, art appreciation is instilled in others by people that may appreciate different forms of art. Some people see art in a chair...or a chair rail....while others seek the functionality of things.

I see art in nature. The unlocking of the beauty of the wood in a turned form is the essence of art to me....more so than a painting on canvas.

Turning is a collaboration with nature.

Turners are cool.:)

[Frank Kobilsek]

Glenn

There is a saying I picked up on some turning forum. 'If it would hold water its a craft if it won't hold water its art.' So the burly HF guys are the artist among us.

In reality its mind set as Glenn Clabo said. I really enjoy sharing my turnings with other artist of other mediums. A couple weeks ago the little gallery that shows my work had a reception during an ice storm so no one came except us 'artists'. We spent the evening discussing each other's work; a bazaaro painter, a glass blower and me. Between the personalities and the free wine it was a great evening. It may come done to dedication to the craft that converts one to an artist.

Lastly I think there is a marketing aspect to the craft or art question. Calling yourself an artist will increase the price point which can be reached.

Good Question.

Frank

[Mark Cothren]

Everyone has myriad life experiences unique from everyone else...

Are you saying we are all unique - just like everybody else? :D

[George Tokarev]

Art delights the eye of the beholder and pleases the soul of its creator. I'd rather the deeper experience.

Since it is so personal, no objective standards could possibly apply. Not so with craft. It has to be objectively suitable to some purpose. Somewhere in the neither fish nor fowl category is what we do.

Difference is 100-300% in price between a "craft" show and an "art" show on the same piece, so accept the designation as an artist, regardless.

[Paul Engle]

Glenn
It still amazes me how God gives one thing to one and another thing to another , imagine how increadably dull this world would be if it were not for those with the gift to bring out the beauty that so richly surronds us on a daily basis.When Solomon built the temple , God said he would give specificly the skill /s to do the metal work , the wood work, and the weaving. People like your two at the show ,, well , one can only hope that the dullnes in there life does not slow you down.As more of us " step out " in a world of falsness and sham and drudgery, let us never forget the joy and beauty we ( collectively ) have brought to someones life. And yes I would call us Artist, for we see that which is common as unique and that which is good for nothing as inspiration. Keep on turning !!!! Today is first day of the rest of your life .... Go man Go.

[Keith Burns]

Glenn, this makes my head hurt !! Keep in mind these are "my opinions" and I hope I don't offend anyone. Is woodturning art ? Yes and no. I think the way I see it is perhaps the way a lot of the non-turning public may see it. Anyway I'll try to explain. If I am looking at utilitarian pieces such as Pepper Mills, salad bowls and maybe even bottle stoppers I don't see them as art, I see it as "craft". Now when I see a Natural Edge Bowl, a Hollow Form, a Lidded Box or a Display bowl, I see it as art. Takes the same amount of talent/skill to do any of these pieces. So, I think a lot of us can be considered both craftsman and artist. Perhaps we do our craft partilly to support our art. And yes Glenn, I consider you to be an artist.

[Mark Pruitt]

Well, I was going to say something but then Keith's comments made more sense than what I was going to say so I'll just ditto Keith.:D

[jeremy levine]

I've heard it said "That any craft in its highest form is art".... glass blowers , black smiths, turners , tool makers, pottters...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I agree with everything everybody has said so far......I'm just concerned that some are skilled artists/craftspersons......and I'm not!:(

[John Hart]

Are you saying we are all unique - just like everybody else? :D

Yer a funny guy Mark!!:D

[Neal Addy]

Keith sums it up pretty well. There's "craft" (utilitarian, functional) and then there's "art" (everything else). I see nothing wrong with considering myself both an artist and a craftsman at the same time. Very little of my work would be thought of as art by any purist, but that's OK. I don't consider throwing paint on a wall to see how it splatters as art either.

I'll never be a Tibbetts or Liestman but the world already has one of each of them. Turning gives me an opportunity to express what little creativity and talents my Maker gave me. That's enough for this old simple boy.

[Jonathon Spafford]

I'll never be a Tibbetts or Liestman but the world already has one of each of them.
Ya... but nobody else is going to be a Neal Addy! :D We all kinda contribute something unique to the world of art as turners!

[Raymond Overman]

As I was reading my most recent copy of American Craft magazine this month I noticed that they used the word "art" in a lot of their articles. When it comes to some of our work we truly do put heart and soul into each individual piece and try to convey an emotional component as well as a technical expertise in the craft of making it. Ask a classical painter or musician if pottery or glass is art and they may waver in their answer. Ask someone who is a woodturner if his salad bowls are art or craft and they'll probably humbly say they are craft. As for me, each piece is individual. Each piece has a certain idea and I want to convey a sense of comfort and contrast. Though I used craft to create it, for me it's art and that's all the definition I need.

As for responses for what to say when someone asks you what a HF is used for, I recently posted these in another forum (Not that I've actually ever said anything like this). For those of you that missed them here they are:

"Sir, you could give it to your mother-in-law for Christmas and satisfy your need to aggravate her by giving her something that just further clutters her house and has no discernible purpose."


"Ma'am, It would make a great conversation piece at dinner parties. Especially if you painted it blue. I can do that for you at an extra cost."


"What do you do with that art you bought last Summer, Ma'am? Why you hang it on a wall and let it collect dust of course... while occasionally admiring it as an overpriced purchase you made while vacationing."


"It's a spittoon Sir. You spit in it." (especially effective when talking to someone who dips)


"It's a chamber pot ma'am, for people with very small backsides."


"It's a bong." (Especially effective for shows on the west coast or near colleges)


"It's art Ma'am. Oops, I missed a zero on that price tag. Let me fix that."


"Now that you mention it Sir, it is cr@p. However, your wife likes it so it's probably going home with you anyway."


"It is what it is." (Especially gratifying when you wander off after saying it)

[Mark Cothren]

All good discussion... I've enjoyed reading...

I've been referenced as an "artist" a few times, and to be honest with you it really feels strange... I'm just plain ol' country boy who enjoys spinnin' wood and makin' things that I like and a few other folks like. It's really just that simple for me.

As scary as this sounds to me, I guess I kinda agree with what Keith said...:eek:...and also most of what everybody else has said.

Bottom line for me? I enjoy doing what I do whether what I'm makin' is "art" or whether it is ________.

Good discussion, Glenn!

[Keith Burns]

As scary as this sounds to me, I guess I kinda agree with what Keith said...:eek:...and also most of what everybody else has said.



Still my beating heart...................................

[Bill Wyko]

Keep in mind that those 2 guys probably think of a black velvet painting of a clown as art.:D All their taste is in their mouth.:eek:

[Glenn Hodges]

I am enjoying this discussion also, thanks for all the replies. I was exhibiting at a fine art show, and was attending an artist dinner on the evening before the show started. While standing in line for food a lot of the artist were talking, and I was listing to their banter about art and the shows they had attended. They seemed to be in a clique of which I was obviously not a member. One of them turned to me and asked what medium I was working in. I replied that I was just a bowl turner. The guy said, "Just a bowl turner, if I could do what you do I would be considered a fortunate man." I was shocked with his reply because after listening to their talk about painting and working with clay, I kind of felt out of place, but his remarks made my day so I thanked him. BTW, these artist visited my booth to see why I was sell so much at the festival. They could not believe all the customers that were in my booth for the 2 day show.

[Dick Durbin]

Keep in mind that those 2 guys probably think of a black velvet painting of a clown as art.:D All their taste is in their mouth.:eek:

I hope you aren't insinuating that my black velvet painting of the Virgin Mary holding the Baby Elvis is tacky.

Being a form follows function guy, I rather like what Sam Maloof had to say:
"If any arts have lasting beauty, they must certainly exist in utilitarian objects created by people aware of the materials, forms, and colors, and surfaces that please the eye and the body—and consequently live on through the years, growing more mellow and beautiful as time passes."

[Curt Fuller]

I tend to see it like Keith Burns and Mark Cothren in that what you turn has a lot to do with whether it's art or craft. But working with wood as the medium is a bit of a joint effort between the turner and God, Mother Nature, or however you believe that wood came to be. And sometimes if the medium is right even a simple bowl becomes a work of art even when the turner is only a craftsman.

[Doug Collins]

Great thread!

Mr. Webster says art is: the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced

I believe that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that what can be construed as art is also rather subjective.

Anything we turn, regardless of our intent and purpose, can be seen as 'art' by somebody, even if it's not us.

[Jeffrey Fusaro]

this is a great thread! i've really enjoyed reading it!

i wanted to reply yesterday, but my mind was working waaaay faster than my fingers.

i think this sums it up...



The definition of "art" is "the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others."


by definition, woodturning would be considered to be art.

try not to let "art appreciation" cloud the issue. the diversity of opinion would take up too much time and energy to debate.

if you ask enough people, you will find folks that love what you do, and folks that are indifferent to what you do.

how well a particular art form is appreciated, or not appreciated, doesn't change the fact that it is still art.

design, form, selection of materials, textures, colors, execution, and craftsmanship prove the "skill level" of the artist.

i don't feel that you need to achieve a certain minimum level in any of these aspects to be considered an artist.

i think you become an artist the moment you start to turn your vision into substance.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Did I miss something? I thought the moral of the story had to do a little with humility.:confused: Oh well. so much for that thought...:)

[Bill Wyko]

I hope you aren't insinuating that my black velvet painting of the Virgin Mary holding the Baby Elvis is tacky.

Being a form follows function guy, I rather like what Sam Maloof had to say:
"If any arts have lasting beauty, they must certainly exist in utilitarian objects created by people aware of the materials, forms, and colors, and surfaces that please the eye and the body—and consequently live on through the years, growing more mellow and beautiful as time passes." Hey now, Elvis was an artist so he doesn't qualify:D

[Loy Hawes]

i think you become an artist the moment you start to turn your vision into substance.


Well said.

[Rich Stewart]

I have noticed that to the untrained eye, almost any turning is a work of art. I have also noticed that most eyes are untrained. My fear is maybe someday overpricing a piece and a woodturner seeing it and labeling me a hack. Guess I'll go with what Jeffrey said too.

[Skip Spaulding]

My Wife says if she can't find a practicle use for it it MUST BE ART!

[Stephen Hibbs]

I agree woodturning is an art form. Especially after looking at Malcom's or Travis's, or just about anyone else on this forum's work. I've had others call my work art, and maybe it is, but it never seems so to me, and I get the feeling it's like that for most of us. I turn for fun, and the bowls are a nice end product. That's why I don't think I could ever sell my work, I just can't see my own work as art, and I fear overpricing and being considered a hack as someone else said, or underpricing and undercutting the real artists.
This is a neat little discussion.

[Jim King]

I think it is close to art when no one wants to touch it or use it.