New member, Vortex-bound

[Mark Schwobel]

Vortex, part one:
My son (14yoa) and I are constant companions and we regularly make stuff. Recently, we began to make and sell some shelving units for scrapbook stamp pads. We bought a portable table saw and had good success. We went to out local Woodcraft store in Ft. Worth to look at some dust collectors and they were holding a lathe class with a room full of JET mini lathes. My son was totally hooked and stood planted at the classroom door, drawn into the hypnotic vortex.

Vortex, part two:
I thought that a lathe was the last thing we needed because, in my 30 years of small projects, I never needed to turn anything. He kept bugging me about taking a class, so I looked at just a few web pages and saw the wicked awesome cool ornaments, pens and boxes and stuff and stuff . . .
I guess we will get a small lathe. I found this site and began to read and have a couple (hundred) questions:

I’m leaning toward the JET mini, but which one (the talked about $199 sale in February sounds sweet).
What’s an "indexing head" that is talked about on the new mini model (and when will it be available?)
Is it practical to make small bowls with these mini lathes, or should we hold out for a larger one?Thanks for all the contributing info that I’ve sifted through and your thoughts.
Mark

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mark....First....Welcome to the Creek! Neat place to trade info!

The Jet Mini is a well liked mini-lathe. So is the Rikon and others.

An indexing head has hole drilled in it at regular angular intervals. This allows you to lock the head and therefore your turning at a specific angle and then work on the project. For instance...You could lock the head every 30 degrees for instance and drill a hole in a pen. Fill the hole with colored stone dust and epoxy or super-glue at regular intervals around the pen and then finish the pen.

You can make bowls and hollow forms (HFs) on a mini but you are usually limited to roughly 10 inches in diameter.

Again...Welcome to the Creek and the Vortex!

[Neal Addy]

Welcome to SMC, Mark!

The Jet mini is a very good lathe. And yes, it will turn anything up to 10" in diameter and/or 14" in length. Don't think it's not a serious lathe just because of the name 'mini'. That little guy will take take you a long way. A lot of folks get one as a starter lathe and then upgrade later. But they usually keep the mini.

The new mini coming out has two new features. The "indexing head" you asked about is simply for marking a piece at precise intervals (for decoration like fluting, etc). It's one of those "nice-to-have" features that most folks never use. The other new feature is the spindle lock. This just makes it easier to get a chuck or other attachment off the spindle.

The $199 price is hard to beat. Definitely a deal to take advantage of if you are even considering a mini. I paid the same price 3 years ago and have rarely seen it that low since. I know that the FW Woodcraft has them in stock already. A friend of mine just bought one there yesterday.

I'd encourage you to get you and your son to attend a meeting of your local club. Woodturners of North Texas meets on the last Thursday of each month.

[Mark Schwobel]

Thanks for the info. I looked at the Woodturners of North Texas page tonight and will likely attend. If I understand you correctly, the $199 sale is on now at Woodcraft?

[Travis Stinson]

Ahhh, the pusher man gets another one. ;)
I see at least TWO new lathes in your very near future.:D Just throw your arms back and do a swan dive into the abyss. Welcome aboard!

[Neal Addy]

Yep. Chris (at Woodcraft) just sold the new non-VS model to my friend at the $199 price yesterday. He was picking it up tonight.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Welcome Mark to SMC. You might as well jump in and just get 2 mini's while you are at it. :eek: :D Just a thought.

[Mark Schwobel]

Great idea, Bernie. But I think we'll do one mini now and if we stay with it, we'll maybe add a larger lathe in the future.

[Kevin McPeek]

Thats a good way to start, as long as you realize its just a start. LOL I have made bowls upwards of 8" on my mini. But being the vortex that it is I have a bigger lathe now.

[Jonathon Spafford]

The jet mini is perfect. It is super tough and has withstood all the wood and catches and banging-up that I can give it. I got the manual version ... the indexing system would be nice, but it isn't terribly necessary. If you need to lock the headstock (which I never have) you can get one later or make one yourself. If you want to divide up the piece evenly, you can do that with a piece of tape and a pencil. I only have a Jet mini... yes, I have been able to withstand the pull of the vortex in terms of upgrading (but I have a ton of tools and wood instead). Anyhow... it is a very versatile lathe. I have turned scoops, mushrooms, platters, bowls, boxes, spatulas, spoons, tops, pendants, magic wands, lamps, pens, etc. You are not very limited, believe me! There is so much more you can do than that - your imagination is the limit!

Just have fun and don't fight it... you lose every time. :D Join the black hole!!!

[Terry Quiram]

Mark

Which ever brand you decide to get make sure its a variable speed lathe. Its a real PITA to have to keep changing the belt for your speed selection. I have a Jet mini and I really want to upgrade to a Oneway 1224.

Terry

[Mark Pruitt]

...I think we'll do one mini now and if we stay with it, we'll maybe add a larger lathe in the future.
Mark,
You're on the right track in approaching it this way. When you do buy a larger one in the future, save up enough to buy a Powermatic or something in its class. The Mini will still have its place.
'nuther Mark

[Steve Schlumpf]

Mark - wanted to jump in and Welcome you to the Creek!

Looks like the Jet Mini for $199 would be a great way to start off in the turning. IF possible take some classes and join the local turning club. That would save you years of figuring out for yourself what works and what doesn't.

Have fun, be safe and post often!

[Mark Schwobel]

the local woodcraft now only has thge variable speed in stock for $299. I may get that one, but 199 looked a lot better for starters.

[Neal Addy]

the local woodcraft now only has thge variable speed in stock for $299. I may get that one, but 199 looked a lot better for starters. I know that some disagree but I honestly don't feel the variable is worth the extra $100. The non-VS pre-set speed settings will handle anything you need and moving the belt position is quick and simple. Takes 10 seconds, tops. Also, the VS comes at a small sacrifice in torque at low speed. Note that low speed on that lathe is 500 RPM. You'll be doing a lot of turning at that speed and need all the torque you can get.

[Mark Schwobel]

Hey Neal, thanks for the quick response/info. The Fort Worth store is out of the $199 mini's and the Dallas store is unaware of any such 199 deal. I think I'll go to the Fort Worth store again and see what's what in person. I was hoping to do this as a b-day deal for my son this Sunday, but we may have to wait.

[Lisa Gilbert]

Mark, I have no advice to offer, since I'm a rank beginner, but want to encourage you in this new hobby with your son. I also became addicted with my 14-year-old son. My husband encouraged us to take a pen class at WoodCraft, and realized when we got home that he had created a couple of monsters. After sticky notes all over the house saying "We want a lathe", and the same note scratched into several pieces of firewood (along with "Turn it, don't burn it"), he took the "hint" and got us one for Christmas. Now if it would get stay above 0 in the shop so we could enjoy ourselves.... We get out there on "warm" days.

I think it's great that you and your son are enjoying woodworking together. It seems to have been a good start on the teen years for us.

[Jonathon Spafford]

I know that some disagree but I honestly don't feel the variable is worth the extra $100. The non-VS pre-set speed settings will handle anything you need and moving the belt position is quick and simple. Takes 10 seconds, tops. Also, the VS comes at a small sacrifice in torque at low speed. Note that low speed on that lathe is 500 RPM. You'll be doing a lot of turning at that speed and need all the torque you can get.

I would definitely agree here. I have the manual belt system on my mini and it is perfect for beginning. When you first start out you ain't in a hurry and your just glad to be turning; so the 10 seconds it takes to switch the belt is worth saving the 100 bucks at this point! Put the 100 towards a nice grinder!

[Adam Bauer]

Thanks for the info. I looked at the Woodturners of North Texas page tonight and will likely attend. If I understand you correctly, the $199 sale is on now at Woodcraft?

Hi Mark,

You just missed the latest Woodturners of North Texas meeting last Thursday. The next one will be on February 22 at 6:30 PM at the R.D. Evans Rec. Center in Fort Worth. If you know where the Woodcraft is you know where the Rec. Center is. That cross road at the south end of that plaza is the road the center is on. You just get on that road, go over 30 and then go about 1 mile and the rec center will be on your right. Additionally, the club has members who specialize in all sorts of woodturning tasks (ie. pens, bowls, segmented, etc..) and will be able to answer any questions you might have. Additionally, they'll be starting up their mentor program again this year where they have more experienced members open their shop up to the other members and help them learn some new skills/techniques.

Adam

[Mark Schwobel]

They seem to be out of the $199.00 lathes, but more are on order. I'll have to wait a bit as I continue to cypher out the cost of accessories. It looks a lot like razors, the handles are virtually free compared to the cost of the blades, blades and more blades.

If I cannot lay hands on one of the mini's at 199, I may look for a used one somewhere - - or maybe a larger model.

[Neal Addy]

It looks a lot like razors, the handles are virtually free compared to the cost of the blades, blades and more blades. QFT. The cost of a mini is often less than the total cost of accessories. Factor in the "essentials", like tools, sharpening system, pen kits, mandrels, bushings, finishing supplies, and DON'T forget the safety equipment (dust masks, faceplate, etc). And that's just for pens! My $200 mini cost me $500+ before I ever left the store. I was back two days later. Hasn't stopped yet.

The best accessory I ever bought was my Talon chuck. And it cost as much as the mini!

[Tom Sherman]

All right Mark, Good that you and your son are so close. Like Travis said just throw your hands back and dive in you'll be glad you did.

[Jim Ketron]

One thing about turning that differs from most woodworking, is you can use FREE found wood! Thats the good part once you have the tools that you need the expense goes down to almost nothing for turning, you will always need finishing items like sandpaper and finish but thats about it. The accessories cost when you first get started, but always buy top quality items and you will only have to buy them one time;)

[John Hart]

Welcome Mark!!! Good luck on this and all future decisions that will ultimately steal all your money.;)

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Mark, WELCOME TO THE CREEK, you and your son!! How cool!! a Father and Son team. What a way to fall into the Abiss... Two for the price of one!:eek:

[Mark Schwobel]

I should have a Jet 1014 with my name on it ready for pick-up at the Dallas Woodcraft tonight. I'll likely get a basic set of tools and some wood blanks for starters.

I was shown the three piece pen turning set at the Fort Worth store and it looked like a good size set. What additional tools would be "must haves" for getting started? We will probably experiment for a while before doing pens. Heck - I don't know what we'll end up with 'cept shavings all over the garage. Thanks for answering all my questions.

Mark

PS: my son will squeal with excitement this evening - for sure.

[Neal Addy]

Congrats, Mark. You'll love that lathe.


I was shown the three piece pen turning set at the Fort Worth store and it looked like a good size set. What additional tools would be "must haves" for getting started? Those are 'scaled-down' tools. Don't get me wrong, they have their uses but you need to start collecting full-size tools. Bigger tools mean better tool control.

I started with the Crown mini set of 5 tools. I was back two days later buying full-size. I still love the little set for fine detail work but small tools are much harder to do serious turning with. You want big and beefy.

That 3-piece set might be fine for pen turning but you can get an 8-piece set of Harbor Freight HSS tools for the same money. Yes, they're cheap Chinese made but if you mess them up while you are learning to turn and sharpen, who cares? You're out less than the cost of one Sorby scraper.

[TYLER WOOD]

face plate, chuck, pen madrel, wood, grinder, sandpaper, cheap set of chisels, chain saw with a muffler (good to trim you neighborhood trees at night), band saw, a wife that will understand your time in the garage. Other than that the rest is small stuff!:)

I'll tell you why cheap chisels, untill you learn how to sharpen, you will waste a lot of steel on the tools. Learn to sharpen on the cheap stuff, get the quality as the second set so they last!

[Neal Addy]

Check here for the HF set:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47066

There's a Harbor Freight at I-20 and Granbury Rd in FW. They should carry these in stock.

BTW, I highly recommend Woodcraft's adjustable "Professional Pen Mandrel". It's worth the money.

[Neal Addy]

And whatever you do, DON'T forget the safety equipment:

1) Faceshield
2) Dust protection
3) Proper lighting
4) Comfortable floor covering (not concrete)
5) List of excuses for the spouse on why you spent so much

Well, at least get the first three. You don't want to turn without them.

[Mark Schwobel]

We got the lathe and probably over-bought on a set of the large penacle tools. I did call both area HF store and the were out of the less-expensive (dang, I mean way less-expensive) chisel sets. We got a DVD and will watch it tomorrow before spooling up some ripped 2x4's.

http://webpages.charter.net/mes549/small_0345.jpg
Out of the box

http://webpages.charter.net/mes549/small_0352.jpg

Ready to go


Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement.

Mark (and Evan)

[John Hart]

Too Cool!! Great pictures Mark (and Evan);)

I have that same set of Pinnacles....They work quite well. I've found the skew to be versatile with it's rounded shaft to cut some mighty fine surfaces and I really like the shape and length of the handles.

Congratulations on your joint dive into the abyss. Kinda like Thelma and Louise!. :)

[Andy Hoyt]

And matching hoodies too. Most Excellent.

[Daniel Heine]

Mark,

I have the same story as you. I took my son the the local Rockler store one day, looking for some carving supplies. They were having a turning demonstartion that day, and afterward a freedom pen turning session. My son was enthralled after seeing the demonstartion, and turning a pen. So, now both of us are deep into the abyss. I bought a mini lathe, and this past spring had to move up to a 15" full size lathe. He wanted to turn bowls. Start saving now!!!! Great choice in tools. You will love the Jet lathe, and the Pinnacle tools are top notch. I have a few of them, and I like them better tha the Sorby's. Big, long handle really gives yiou control.

My son and I also do almost everything together. You and I are very lucky to have such great kids. We ride the trails on our bicycles in the summer, go to ball games, campouts, you name it. Most of my sons friends would not be caught dead hanging around with their Dad!

If you want to try your hand at turning pens, I would recomend Arizona Silhouette. They have very high quality kits, and very reasonable prices. Great service too. Here is the link:
http://www.arizonasilhouette.com/

Having a son has been the best experience of my life. Mine is 16, and a sophmore in high school. High honors every quarter, National Honor Society, volunteers at local hospital. Great kid.

Happy Turning,
Dan Heine

[Tom Sherman]

Mark you already had a great gloat going this just puts it over the top. Congratulations

[John Chandler]

Check here for the HF set:
BTW, I highly recommend Woodcraft's adjustable "Professional Pen Mandrel". It's worth the money.

I plan on doing pens. What makes the "Professional Pen Mandrel" worth it compared to their basic mandrel - is it made better and easier to work with?

[John Chandler]

We got the lathe and probably over-bought on a set of the large penacle tools. I did call both area HF store and the were out of the less-expensive (dang, I mean way less-expensive) chisel sets.
Mark (and Evan)

Mark, first off - congratulations on the new lathe. I am waiting on my stand to come in so I can set mine up. While I am waiting, I am getting my workshop part of the garage ready and organized.

I went by the HF off of Granbury just south of I20, since it is on the way home for me, and I picked up a set of the 8 piece hss turning tools. Online they show them for $36.99 which I didn't remember at the store, but their price at the store was 44.99 (I just wrote their cutomer service to see if they normally charge more at the retail location.) Anyway, they had at least 2 more sets when I left if you still want to break in your sharpening skills on them.

[Mark Schwobel]

Thanks, John.

I do want to get the set from HF (just like jello - there's always room for something from HF).

I look at the Pinnacle set that we paid over $100 for, plus an additional parting tool, and I'm really wondering what significant difference there is between this HSS "made in China" product and the HF tool set.

The quality difference is more apparent in looking at the Sorby and Crown. Is the Pinnacle stuff worth three to four times the price of the HF set?

My brother-in-law will be teaching us how to turn sharpen tomorrow. Between the HF set and an aluminum-oxide wheel on my bench grinder - - we should get a decent start. I'm going to be on the lookout for a lower-speed grinder at a good (read "really cheap") price.

We will watch a DVD on turning this afternoon and start spinning pieces tonight.

Thanks again

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mark.....The nearest turning club is 110 miles from me. I'd never seen someone turn. One member recommended a book. I have DVDs by Raffan and Grumbine but my go to source is that book as I can take it to the shop and put it on the bench beside the lathe for instant reference. The book...."Wood turning - A Foundation Course" by Keith Rowley.......I'd highly recommend it. He covers the presentation of each type of tool, sharpening, bevel angles...a multitude topics and has a neat and organized group of projects. The book is geared for the beginner. If you follow his approach, he takes you through a variety of turning projects that follows a natural progression for beginning turners. I'd also recommend the free videos you can view at the Woodcraft site.

Good luck with you and your son's endeaver to learn turning.

The idiots here gifted me with a lathe on Tuesday before Superbowl Sunday last year. I managed to put off using my Jet Mini until late February/early March IIRC....It's changed my life.....I have a new passion. I was 1-2 weeks from having my new shop completed. I still haven't completed my shop....but I'm sure having fun.....I used to always have a hundred dollars or more in my billfold...well...now days I'm broke or saving for another turning tool or some special wood....or finish or more sandpaper....well...you can see where this is going. Turning is addictive and almost instant gratification. Enjoy the journey!

[Ron Raymond]

Online they show them for $36.99 which I didn't remember at the store, but their price at the store was 44.99 (I just wrote their cutomer service to see if they normally charge more at the retail location.)
Hi John,
FYI, my local HF sells both sets. From what I can tell, there's a different sleeve around the wooden case and the handles are a different color, but they sure look like the same tools to me!:confused:

[John Hart]

Another resource for watching various turning techniques is the internet-based "The Woodworking Channel". They usually have some sort of turning show scheduled everyday. I learned how to French Polish, how to turn a pocket watch and picked up some decent spindle techniques so far. They have sharpening shows and a bunch of fundamental woodworking. Good site. http://www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/

[Neal Addy]

Mark, you're off to a really good start. Smart buys all the way. Wish I had been as smart when I started. Didn't know about these forums then so all I had was the salesmen in the store to guide me. Luckily the Arlington Rockler was a good bunch of guys. Looking back they did me right.

I'd second Ken's recommendation for Rowley's book. It is highly regarded as a good intro.

For the grinder I VERY highly recommend the Woodcraft 8" slow-speed grinder. It goes on sale pretty regular so keep an eye on it. Chris (WC) might even be willing to cut you a deal between sales. It comes with 2 decent AO wheels that would cost nearly as much as the grinder itself. Good deal.

Also check out Oneway's video on the Wolverine sharpening jig (see linky below). It explains some of the mechanics of grinding HSS tools as well as pitching the Wolverine. IMO the Wolv is a good investment in that it will save you on tools over the long haul. I thought I was good at sharpening until I bought it. MAN! What a difference.

You'll note that the Wolverine instructions recommend a high-speed grinder for best efficiency. I've had no problem with the slow-speed's grind. Can't imagine it being any sharper and the tools don't heat as quickly.

http://www.oneway.on.ca/multi-media/wolverine_videos.htm