Powermatic Disappointment - rant

[Jeff Fritzson]

So I bought a Powermatic Bench top Mortiser (701) from Amazon back in October and it was delivered at the end of November. Great deal at $269 and got a $50 rebate to boot (which I just received.) Of course I have yet to be able to use my machine and here is why:


When I tried to use the machine the run out was pretty bad. Powermatic tech support said that a new chuck should fix the problem and they sent one out pretty quickly.
This did not fix the problem and when I called back they said to either send it back to Amazon or bring it in to an authorized service center. I chose the service center as it was less than 10 miles from my house.
I dropped off the machine on December 18th and they said it should not be later than the 15th of January.
Needless to say I did not get it back then. Today I finally get a call and they said they have tried everything that Powermatic could think of and that it still does not work correctly. I should pick it back up and send it back to the original point of purchase.
So right now I have waited 2 months since receiving the machine and it still does not work. I have received my rebate check and now they want me to repack it and deal with Amazon 2 months later.
I called Powermatic and the first person said well that is what you will have to do as you are within the first 90 days.
The second person said let me review this and I will get back to you. I am then told that they have a new motor and shaft (as they think the shaft on the motor is out of tolerance) and they can send that out to the service center. I now have to wait and find out if that will happen or not and I am still without the machine 2 months later.
What I cannot understand is that the amount of BS they are wasting on this by not sending out a new machine within all the tolerances and then taking my machine and putting it into their packaging material and either sending it back to Powermatic or they send it back to Amazon and work out the credit between the distribution agent (Amazon) and the MFG. Infact, I offered to have them send me the new one and I will pick up the bad one and ship it back to Amazon although I do not feel that I should have to pay for the shipping.

This poor service and lack of respect for customer time tables has proven to me that it is just not worth the extra money for the Powermatic name. They are supposed be due to the tolerances they supposedly live up to but in this case, they are way off. This is not the first problem with this batch of mortisers from what I have read on the forums.

I was considering the Powermatic 15” planer but that thought just left the my mind after this experience. I know there are a lot of people who really love the Powermatic brand but for me that was not so. I will evaluate the Grizzly, Sunhill, Delta and Woodmaster for my planer and Powermatic can keep theirs.

Sorry for the rant but this has been extremely frustrating.

[John Schreiber]

Thanks for letting us know. You deserve better. Anyone deserves better.

[Dave Lehnert]

Just one of the reasons I like to buy my larger items with a local dealer. Mail order is OK if you don’t have a problem but a PITA if you do.
I am going to guess your local service center is also a Powermatic dealer. If so, He is not going to be much help if you purchased it through Amazon. Local dealers like to see a person suffer who had problems buying (and saving a few bucks) through the internet. I go through this with Lawn Equipment dealers. Buy a mower through any one of the big box stores and you wait 9 weeks for a repair.

[Nancy Laird]

We just recently bought a Steel City Tools 15" planer and we could not be happier with it. Easy to read complete instructions, eazy assembly, everything fit as advertised, and the only minor problem was a dead battery in the height gauge. A call to Steel City Tool was answered by a gentleman by the name of Scott and he not only sent us two new batteries but a new digital readout via Fedex. I am totall impressed by the commitment of the company in their warrenty and their personal responses to customer inquiries. By the way Scott was Scott Box, president of the company, and he was just answering the phones that day. Tells me something about the company, their service and commitment.:D :D :D

[Carroll Courtney]

Thanks, to everything being made in other countrys,there's not much quality control.Make it fast and ship it out.I have several powermatic tools,made in the 70's&80's and like them very much.Don't make them like they use to.If I had to purchase again,I think I would investage Grizzy's products.Back to the problem at hand.Even through the tool is made over seas the service is still american made.There's not excuse for the way this problems was handle.Good Luck w/service center.

[JayStPeter]

I got a 701 around the same time period. While mine seems to be OK functionally, the fit and finish are not great. Probably among the worst of the machines I own. Nothing that compromises functionality, but not the exceptional I was expecting by getting a PM over the others. Fortunately, I didn't pay a PM price for it.

[Steven DeMars]

All I can say is . . . BUY LOCAL . . . Been there, got a T-Shirt . . .

A local dealer can always resolve your problem . . . .

Steve

[Stephen Morrison]

I went through a simular situation last month. I purchased a Bosch 5412 from Amazon and I could not get the thing to cut square (there was not enough play in the fence adjustment). I contacted Bosch service and they told me I had to deal with Amazon.

With one email to Amazon with the explanation that the saw was defective, they shipped me out a brand new saw that I received within 2 days! All I had to do was to box up the first saw and sent it back to Amazon on their dime.

I was surprised how easy the process went.

I would suggest you contact Amazon right away.

[Jake Helmboldt]

I recently posted my thoughts on the PM 64A contractor saw when someone asked about opinions. PM won't get another red cent out of me. I spent last night realigning my trunnions yet again and reshimming the wings trying to get them dialed in a little better.

But my PM customer service was much like the afforementioned; indifferent about the fact that I couldn't use my saw for three weeks when I bought it.

By the way Carroll, the reason I couldn't was due to the American-made AccuFence. I have three of them; two sitting on the shelf because they are so poorly welded up that they were not serviceable. I sent them a letter expressing my reservations about buying any more PM products (I was looking at bandsaws at the time) without being assured that the company had improved their QC and customer service. I never heard so much as a "thanks you for contacting us" from them. Case closed, they have lost a couple thousand in purchases from me as a result. Peanuts, but if many others share my sentiment that will add up. How the mighty fall. Gold Standard? More like baby-poop yellow standard.:eek:

JH

[Larry Rasmussen]

I put together a shop, more or less over the last year and many of the tools were purchased through Amazon. I have returned two, one just because I changed my mind. I groaned when in your intro you stated that you elected to deal with the local service center.

As far as I'm concerned there is only one way to deal with an intially disappointing product and it is simple. Send it back and choose to get a replacement or credit. You can go on line and run though a simple return process, no calling or waiting on hold. Pack it up, have UPS pick it up and forget about it. I also got a pin nailer and compressor combo from Woodcraft and the pins would not sink all the way. Same deal, quick and easy to return.

I'm really sorry to hear about your experience and I do miss the days when my hardware store guys were all well known. I knew which guy to ask about paint, which for lumber and so on. Ultimately though Amazon's easy and generous return policy has made life easier.

Best wishes and good luck,
Larry R

[Mike Heidrick]

Go over to woodnet and lookup a member named Toolman007. He is a product manager for WMH. Let him know your story and see if he can recommend a solution. He is a great guy to deal with and knows the CS folks that can get you taken care of. Good luck.

Mike

[Seth Poorman]

Just incase someone doesnt know, Powermatic is not Powermatic anymore - Powermatic is owned by JET since 2000..
I have old Powermatic Equipment (American Made) Im vary happy with what I have, I wouldnt buy from them now...

[Noah Katz]

"Powermatic is owned by JET since 2000.."

I thought they were both under WMH, or is that the same as Jet?

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I believe WMH owns JET, Powermatic and Peformax.

Powermatic was once part of a larger corporation that was defaulting about 6 or 7 years ago. However, the Powermatic division of the corporation was still profitable and was sold to JET/WMH. About this time, they also acquired Peformax sanders and some other smaller niche companies.

-Jeff :)

[Rod Sheridan]

You could always buy a Canadian made machine (General).

Familly owned, great product, although their manuals are poor.

The problem isn't whether the equipment is made overseas, or in North America, the problem is quality control, and price.

For a company to have high quality control standards, they have to be able to recover those costs through the sale of the equipment. This seems to be something North Americans have forgotten, we expect to have top quality equipment, without paying for it.

When I purchased my table saw (General 650) I also looked at the offshore models they sell through General International, and decided to purchase the Canadian made machine, rather than the Taiwanese machine. I had to spend an additional $700 to do this, however I am happy with the decision.

The same problem happens with mail order equipment, which may be a few dollars less expensive, however the service is non existant at the local level. Find an equipment dealer you trust, pay a few percent more and develop a good working relationship with them. You expect to be well compensated for your work, why would you begrudge some else, the same compensation.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. When I had a problem installing an aftermarket splitter on my table saw, the General field service rep came to my house to fix the problem, which he knew beforehand wasn't a problem with my saw, it was the splitter. That's customer service, which has to be paid for.

[John Schreiber]

The problem isn't whether the equipment is made overseas, or in North America, the problem is quality control, and price.

For a company to have high quality control standards, they have to be able to recover those costs through the sale of the equipment. This seems to be something North Americans have forgotten, we expect to have top quality equipment, without paying for it.
I agree with Rod. We want to have our cake and eat it too. <Rant>

I have a friend who worked with "communist" China on jet engines for commercial aircraft. There is no quality problem there. The Chinese can make products of the highest quality. The problem with the Chinese products we buy is that the companies we buy from spec low levels of quality so that they can make money selling to us. I also know people who have worked in Chinese industry on custom titanium bicycles for the American market and premium beer for the Chinese market.

There's no such thing as off-shore junk. Junk can come from anywhere; as can quality. We get what we are asking for when we make purchase decisions based on price instead of quality. Except for when we demand new products built like the "old arn," we will get equipment which is on the edge of price and quality.

Part of my point is to make it clear that the solution is with us. Where we demand quality and are willing to pay for it, we will get it.

</rant>

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I think John hit the nail on the head.

We recently investigated China's ability to fabricated large high precision electromagnets. A US deligation of engineers visited the Chinese facilities and were seriously impressed with their capabilities which were believed to possibly be superior to vendors in the US.

It should be understood that as the US manufacturing base continues to decay, US companies are looking to China for all their fabrication needs. Along with the need for China's fabrication services, US high technology companies are also providing China with key technologies.

As far as Powermatic is concerned, they appear to be now exploiting the Powermatic name to sell lower quality tools at a higher profit margin. A previous thread on their new variable speed drill press shared similar quality concerns. This near sighted philosophy will hurt both them and us. But the short term CEO will probably probably be rewarded with enough money to buy 500 new Felder sliders.

-Jeff

[Frank Snyder]

I've read posts regarding PM's lackluster customer service, but I've also read similar posts dealing with other manufacturers as well. A lot of times, it really is just that other person at the end of the phone who represents that company, and ultimately, your opinion of that company. If they're courteous and helpful, you'll think its the best company ever. If they've had a bad day and you're both frustrated, then you'll think that this is the worst company to deal with and you'll want to slander them. Talking to the right person at that company often circumvents a lot of these rants, which unfortunately, can only be learned by having to go through these "ropes" to figure that out. PM is not unique in this regard.

Personally, when PM suggested returning or exchanging this mortiser for a new one through Amazon, that would've been my first choice. It is the easiest route to take. Trial and error troubleshooting will eat a lot of time for you and that company, and your patience will be tested.


As far as Powermatic is concerned, they appear to be now exploiting the Powermatic name to sell lower quality tools at a higher profit margin. A previous thread on their new variable speed drill press shared similar quality concerns. This near sighted philosophy will hurt both them and us. But the short term CEO will probably probably be rewarded with enough money to buy 500 new Felder sliders.

Jeff - I was the guy who posted the review on PM's new VS drill press. As I stated in my review...it was really just based on my initial impressions, and not on a thorough or exhaustive evaluation. It does work as advertised. It's just not as "nice" in terms of fit and finish which I would've expected for something at this price point. I'm still in the process of giving it a fair evaluation and I will update that review in the near future.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Frank...my apologies. Perhaps I overstated the concerns regarding your drill press. But I will say that I'm seeing a trend on this and other forums about Powermatic and Delta products.

It's funny that many years ago in the 1980s, when I began being a serious woodworker hobbyist, I could not affort Powermatic, Delta or General. Instead, I bought the import clones or Sears stuff. Now that I can afford better quality, it seems that once again I'm looking at the imports! Go figure.

I look forward to hearing a follow-up on your drill press. I'm tired of black fingers when changing speeds on my old drill press. :)

cheers, Jeff :)

[Frank Snyder]

Jeff - No need to apologize...I just wanted to make sure that readers didn't assume that "initial impressions" meant "conclusive findings". I was ready to return it after the first day just because it didn't "feel" quite like I had expected it to and my bad for buying something sight unseen (try before you buy folks...or at least kick the tires a few times). It's actually starting to grow on me a bit (as ugly as it is) and other than the stiff table height operation and the collar-type depth adustment, I think I that is a decent drill press. Overpriced, but still decent. I need to spend more time using it before I'll make any "conclusive findings".

If you want to own American-made woodworking tools, there's always "old iron" for sale out there. If you want brand new American-made, Northfield is still churning out iron. And if you thought Felders were expensive...

[Ted Miller]

Since I deal with customer sevice with many vendors daily I make sure to be nice and just want to deal with the problem and get it fixed. I know it is not the fault of the C/S person on the other end of the phone and I can tell in 2 seconds how their day is going by how they answer their line. If their day is bad then I talk about weather or what ever comes to mind besides the problem. Its rare that in the last 20 years I did not get the problem taken care of. Main thing to remember with online orders is never I mean never discard the boxes or crates til you have the item up and running, you may just have to repackage and ship the item back. This one thing saves a lot of headaches having the original packaging especially if the product has concealed damage...

[paul aubin]

I have to Admit that there is a box on my front steps almost daily from amazon and any time i have had an issue with a produc the return policy and resolution has been superb. I am always a fan of replacing a defective product vs repair. I actually ignore the section of most manuals that say if you have an issue please contact the manufacturer and do not return to the store. well i always return to the store.
Having said that most of my large stationary tools were purchased and picked up locally . (dust collector is the only mail order tool). Now when it comes to commodity products price rules for me. and i have no loyalty to the local borg. We even buy groceries on Amazon as the price is great and i do not need to lug them from the store to the house.

On the quality note I have a mostly Delta Shop Unisaw ( made in USA older version ), Band Saw, Jointer, Dust collector ect. I was at the local tool dealer a bit back looking at a stationary planer (have a lunch box now) and he carries Delta, Jet, Powermatic and the related brands. The owner was steering me away from the Delta products since getting service since the B &D takeover in his words has been lousy.

I still need a planer but am sterring away from Delta right now. I even have Amazon up in another window right now trying to decide between the Delta and Jet Air cleaner Jet will most likely win unless i decide to build one. LOML says to buy one so i can get some more houshold projects done :)

Shop time is short with a fulltime job 3 1/2 year old girl and 18 month old boy.

/paul

[Pete Brown]

If you are talking about the triangle delta air cleaner, don't bother. No offense intended to anyone who has one, but it is crap. I bought one locally, tried it out, and then returned it. I now have a Jet air cleaner.

There are some other air cleaners that look better than the jet. I don't recall the brand, but they advertise in the magazines.

Pete

[Paul Canaris]

The problem isn't whether the equipment is made overseas, or in North America, the problem is quality control, and price.

Right on the money. My Fein cordless drill is made in China, it is the best I have owned to date and that includes Pansonics, Hitachi's and Dewalts. So it is possible to get quality goods made in China, it's a funtion of the effort the manufacturer puts into QA, parts sources and of course price.

[paul aubin]

Pete

No on the triangle one am leaning toward this one
Jet 708620B AFS-1000B 550/702/1044 CFM 3 Speed Air Filtration System with Remote and Electrostatic Pre-Filter

List Price: $301.00 Price: $229.99 FREE SHIPPING You Save: $71.01 (24%)
The JDS look nice as well but this one has a remote and timer and the filters seem to be reasonably priced. I still want to build one but my wife is right I need to get to some of the more valued projects 1st

Sorry about the Hijack

[Scott Neblung]

Steve-

Not always true. In my case my Delta 15" planer was leaking oil like an old '73Chevelle and they didnt want anything to do with it. Delta was paying them quite handsomely to come out and do it too I might add since it was warranty work.

I learned their stance from their competitor who traveled 2x's further to come do it. That incident alone left a bad taste in my mouth...




All I can say is . . . BUY LOCAL . . . Been there, got a T-Shirt . . .

A local dealer can always resolve your problem . . . .

Steve

[Pete Brown]

No on the triangle one am leaning toward this one
Jet 708620B AFS-1000B 550/702/1044 CFM 3 Speed Air Filtration System with Remote and Electrostatic Pre-Filter

List Price: $301.00 Price: $229.99 FREE SHIPPING You Save: $71.01 (24%)
The JDS look nice as well but this one has a remote and timer and the filters seem to be reasonably priced. I still want to build one but my wife is right I need to get to some of the more valued projects 1st


That's the DC I own. It's pretty good, but I wish I could use regular filters on it. The local box stores don't carry 12x24 3m furnace filters (the good ones). I have used 2 12" filters and crammed them in there, but they're a bit too large in all dimensions. So I have to get the ones from Jet.

I even used that air filter when the drywallers were in my kitchen. My expectations were low, but it did a decent job getting the airborne dust out of there.

The JDS is what I was thinking of. The magazine reviews put that above the JET, IIRC.

Pete

[paul aubin]

Pete

I buy all my filters here http://filtera.stores.yahoo.net/ the builder used some odd sizes on my returns. Shipping is only a $1 and no sales tax depending on what Merv level you want they have the 12 x 24 3m filters starting at 4.50 with a min purchase of 6



Paul

[Pete Brown]

I buy all my filters here http://filtera.stores.yahoo.net/ the builder used some odd sizes on my returns. Shipping is only a $1 and no sales tax depending on what Merv level you want they have the 12 x 24 3m filters starting at 4.50 with a min purchase of 6
Paul

Thanks Paul, that's a good find.

Pete