Help using a drawknife and a spokeshave?

[Luke McFadden]

I just got these tools (along with some planes) from ebay. The drawknife is in decent shape. But the blade looks pretty rough. I did my best to sharpen it, it is cut much better now. However, I'm having trouble with it digging in too deep. I'm testing it out on some 2"x2"'s and some 2"x6"'s to get used to it. Several times it would make large piece of the wood crack and break off in far from beautiful pieces. Am I using the tool wrong, is the angle on the blade wrong? Any help would be appreciated.

The spokeshave I have is a Stanley #53. And the more I use it, the better I seem to be able to control it. But after working in an area for a while, the spokeshave seems to start to shutter, and make waves in the wood.

Any thoughts here as well?

Thanks!

Luke

[Zahid Naqvi]

Luke, the waves(chatter) you are referring to for the spokeshave can be caused by one of two things, the blade getting dull or a cut that is too deep. Spokeshaves are generally used for forming curves, and as such only take narrow shavings. If you try to make a cut which is the full width of the blade the spokeshave will struggle. There is a possibility that you are gradually flattening your work piece and as the width of cut increases the thickness of the shaving and the sharpness of the blade start becoming a factor. Try puling back the blade to where you can barely take a shaving. Then again if you are working on a flat surface the full width of a spokeshave a block plane will be better suited.

I don't have much experience with the drawknife so can't help you with that.

[Louis Bois]

Drawknives differentiate from spokeshaves in that you have to manually control the depth of cut and you can remove a heck of a lot of material very quickly. There's no "fine tuning" the setting of the blade as on spokeshaves.

There are generally 2 types of drawknives - straight blades and curved blades. The first thing to do is to get the tool sharp. The easiest way I've found to do this is to clamp the tool in a vise and sharpen it with sandpaper adhered to blocks. Have 3 or 4 blocks, depending on your usual grit progression.

When using the tool, securing the work is a high priority as you're usually pulling this tool into your chest area. Shaving horses are ideal for this application, but not necessary.

In use, I tend to skew the tool a bit and slice it across the wood as I pull towards me. This tends to give a smoother action through the wood and I find it easier to control the depth of cut using this technique as well. You really have to get a feel for the tool by practicing a few different methods on reasonably straight-grained wood...which brings up a whole other matter. You'll get lots of what you describe above when going against the grain. The tool will dig deep into the wood resulting in cracks and splintering rather than smooth shavings.

Practice is the key here...and it sounds like you're on the right track. Don't lose patience with it as that magic moment is only a few more practice boards away.

If you have a subscription to Fine Woodworking Online, you should have a look at a video by Brian Boggs on using a drawknife and spokeshaves. You won't believe how quickly he makes his chair parts using these few tools!!!

[Luke McFadden]

The more I think about it, I was going against the grain when I had my big break offs. For some reason I thought I was going with it. I will try that out tonight.

And as far as my spokeshave problems. I think Zahid nailed it. Once I got it tuned to where it would take off edges well, I'd just keep working at it until it was relatively flat. That is when I had my problem with the tool bogging down and making the waves. I wasn't trying to actually accomplish anything last night (as far as building something) other than working with them and trying to get a good feel for how they worked.

I really appreciate the insight.

Unfortunately, now I think I'm going to have to subscribe to Fine Woodworking's website, as it seems there is a GREAT wealth of information there. Woodworking tends to do bad things to your budget, or rather my ability to follow my budget.

Thanks

L

[harry strasil]

skewing the spokeshave works very well too and if skewed at a 45 or so degree angle and it is sharp it does a reasonable good job on end grain.

[Bill Houghton]

Some people prefer to use drawknives bevel down, so that you can control any tendency to "dive." Others stone a back bevel for similar reasons.

My experience has been that paying attention to grain direction is the most important part; that and not getting any rougher than you need to for the amount of wood you're removing.

Drawknives are neat tools: once you get it sharp (which, as with all edge tools, matters a lot) and get comfortable with it, you can go from hogging great chunks of wood off to smoothing just by how you manipulate the tool. When I'm working right, I can get a surface that looks every bit as good as a planed or spokeshaved surface on many woods.

As with everything else in hand tools, part of it is "practice, practice, practice."

[Luke McFadden]

Some people prefer to use drawknives bevel down, so that you can control any tendency to "dive." Others stone a back bevel for similar reasons.

Beveled down to what angle? I did mine to around 30 degrees (hopefully), since that what most of my other bladed tools are.

Back bevel as in the back side of the blade is bevel the opposite direction of the cutting edge? so the back would be \ and the front would be \, so it could rock back? I'm have trouble understanding this as well.

I appreciate the input!

Luke

[Bill Houghton]

Most drawknives have a distinctive shape to the blade, with (in cross-section) a flat back and a beveled side. When I say "bevel down," I mean holding the drawknife so that the bevel side is presented to the wood. You'll need to hold the handles at what seems like an odd angle to do this (which is one reason that I don't use my drawknives bevel down much), but it's kind of like presenting a chisel to the wood bevel down - it tends to run out of the wood instead of into it.

As for the back bevel, I can't help much, never having done it, but my memory is that people suggest a 5 degree bevel, and not a big one - practically a microbevel.

[Ian Gillis]

The drawknife is to the spokeshave what the chisel is to the plane. Put another way, a plane is a chisel holder with a depth of cut limiter - the sole. A spokeshave has a very short sole, allowing work on curved surfaces. The drawknife has none.

Theoretically you could do most woodworking with a chisel and a saw - most cutting tools evolved from the chisel.

When you use the drawknife you're using a very short and wide chisel. There is no sole to limit depth of cut - controlling the cutting angle of the blade falls to the operator. You can do darn near anything with it if you can guide it properly, but it requires some finesse and careful attention to the wood you're cutting.

I think the best way to get used to a drawknife is to use it on some green wood. Green wood is hard on planes, but drawknives excel with it. Green wood is more pliable and forgiving. Try taking a green branch or small log and bring it to square with a drawknife. Then turn around and bring it back to a smaller cylinder. You can learn a lot by experimenting this way - adjusting the angle of attack, changing the skew angle for knots.

I like the drawknife on green stock, but I'd rather use hatchet and spokeshave on seasoned wood if I'm working from stuff "in the round". Doesn't happen often enough :(

Cheers

[Bob Smalser]

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7081299/91882340.jpg

Tuning and using the drawknife...there's nothing like pictures ;):

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=7528&highlight=drawknife

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3854395/47520434.jpg

The spokeshave is just a mini version of the drawknife with a sole for finer work:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=7415&highlight=tune

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3302197/41734999.jpg

The big gotcha is learning to read the grain of the wood. Master that and the type, hardness or moisture content of the wood is no big deal.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=10036&highlight=oars

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4518261/56705287.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4518261/56996406.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7081299/91841729.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7081299/99960843.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7711190/101687783.jpg

[Jerry Palmer]

Grain direction is of utmost importance with both the drawknife and the spokeshave. On this tabletop, the drawknife excelled at forming the curved front.

http://www.sawdustersplace.com/Workholding/ViceHoldfastStop01.jpg

Downhill grain on both sides of center. It took less time with the drawknife than I could have done it on my bandsaw, and the cut only need a little squaring to the face and fairing with a compass plane.

[Philip Duffy]

I must say I don't think I have ever seen such a compilation of great advise about one subject in all my years of looking at web page! Every single response had something very important to the novice and for those of us a bit more seasoned. Well done to all hands!! Phil

[Mark Singer]

Let me just say...Bob that was a great explination!
Expertise with these tools comes from practise....you make 10 chairs that match and you soon get very good....the wood and the tool are the best teachers once you get the basics which Bob has explained with great pics

[Bob Smalser]

...you make 10 chairs that match and you soon get very good....

And that's the key. An important drill is making two simple things that match, like chisel handles...and don't be afraid to follow the drawknife and spokeshave with rasps:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=5771&highlight=chisels

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3302197/41734982.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3302197/42016002.jpg

It's easy. You'll find that making identical shapes by hand is actually easier than getting them perfect on the lathe.

And again...the other important skill required to make two identical shapes is sharpening your tools freehand without jigs.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=12747&highlight=basic+sharpening

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/69053195.jpg

If you can't duplicate a consistent angle while sharpening, how do you expect to duplicate one with a spokeshave, rasp or drawknife on wood?

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5090019/69053973.jpg

And of you can't see the flat you made on the bevel using the stone and correct for it in your next pass, how do you expect to do the same with any hand tool on wood? Yes, even saws.

Newcomers get entirely the wrong idea about sharpening, freehanding is an essential skill that becomes the foundation for all other hand tool skills. As results in wood using hand tools will never be absolutely perfect....but that's the charm of hand-made pieces....neither will your sharpening. But we're working in wood, not aircraft machine parts, and your sharpening doesn't have to be anywhere near as perfect as mechanical jigs will produce.

Your sharpening will get better as you use your hand tools duplicating things, and also vice versa. If you've come to believe that you can't begin to do fine work without a perfect Tormek edge, I'm afraid you have it entirely backwards.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7081299/93859833.jpg