4000, 6000, 8000 beyond

[Howie French]

With all this chisle/waterstone talk, I am curious how high everyone goes
with their chisel sharpening. I currently sharpen to 4000, but am considering moving up to an 8,000 stone. Will I notice much of an improvement?

Howie

[Terry Beadle]

I take mine to 10,000 and it is sure noticable. I used to do 8000 but 10K is definitely better. The edge is also easily stropped several times as it's used and gets a little loss of edge. I use a leather strop with some of that Tormek abrasive paste on it. Some might think 10K is over kill but I enjoy a sharp edge for sure.

[Ken Werner]

I think 8K is alot better than 4. I then strop on some LV green rubbed on MDF.
My goal is a one molecule edge. Doubt that I'll ever get there, but it's fun trying.
Ken

[Mark Rios]

I think 8K is alot better than 4. I then strop on some LV green rubbed on MDF.
My goal is a one molecule edge. Doubt that I'll ever get there, but it's fun trying.
Ken


ROFL, Ken....why stop there? Take it down to a one atom edge.

:D :D :D

[Gary Keedwell]

A few years ago I was getting a little obsessive about sharpening my chisels ( had a down-sized shop for 3 years). I was putting a 14,000 grit on my secondary bevel, using diamond paste on a maple slab.
Last 2 years have a much bigger space and getting back in the woodworking groove. Thinking serious about a Tormek wet sharpener to save time.
Gary K.

[Mike Henderson]

The max I ever do is 8000, and I sometimes stop at 5000.

Mike

[Andrew Homan]

I take mine to 10,000 and it is sure noticable. I used to do 8000 but 10K is definitely better. The edge is also easily stropped several times as it's used and gets a little loss of edge. I use a leather strop with some of that Tormek abrasive paste on it. Some might think 10K is over kill but I enjoy a sharp edge for sure.

Hi Terry,
FYI, I'm fairly certain that the Tormek paste is around 6000 grit. If you like honing to a higher grit, you might like the green honing compound from Lee Valley.
-Andy

[Ken Werner]

ROFL, Ken....why stop there? Take it down to a one atom edge.

:D :D :D

Hi Mark,

Nah, I don't want to get too obsessive about this....

Ken

[Mark Singer]

With most chisels after a tap or two....10,000 is down to 8,000. I have a several Blue steel japanese chisels that really hold the edge...then 10,000 may make more of a difference. I have a disc for my Veritas MarkII with .3 Micron 3M....that is supposed to be 12,000 to 15,000 equivelent. It almost looks like regular paper....its pretty effective and you only need the micro bevel...the back I hand hone on 1 micron to remove the burr

[Ken Werner]

I read somewhere about some "master" who would take one cut with the chisel, then resharpen it, take another, resharpen...What you say Mark makes sense. Perhaps not practical to aim for the sharpest sharp, but still compelling [to me anyway]. Cheers.
Ken

[Eddie Darby]

With most chisels after a tap or two....10,000 is down to 8,000. I have a several Blue steel japanese chisels that really hold the edge...then 10,000 may make more of a difference. I have a disc for my Veritas MarkII with .3 Micron 3M....that is supposed to be 12,000 to 15,000 equivelent. It almost looks like regular paper....its pretty effective and you only need the micro bevel...the back I hand hone on 1 micron to remove the burr

Does Lee Valley sell this 0.3 micron disc?

[Eddie Darby]

Hi Terry,
FYI, I'm fairly certain that the Tormek paste is around 6000 grit. If you like honing to a higher grit, you might like the green honing compound from Lee Valley.
-Andy
"* Tormek compound contains a variety of grains of various size,
the smallest down to 0.7 micron. The average effective size is 3 micron."

From this page:

http://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/sharpening/grit_sizes/Abrasive_grit_sizes.htm (http://home.comcast.net/%7Erexmill/sharpening/grit_sizes/Abrasive_grit_sizes.htm)

I wonder what size the Fritz compound that the Jet water wheel comes with is??

http://users.ameritech.net/knives/grits.htm

3 microns is about the same as a Japanese 4,000 waterstone.

[Mark Singer]

Eddie,
Tools for Woodworking has it in PSA...I bough an extra thin disc and it is a great way to re hone without getting the stones out

[Dave Anderson NH]

How sharp do you need a chisel to be? Answer: just sharp enough to do the job. For general use like wasting away stock chopping, and I don't bother sharpening beyond 600 to 1000 girt SC paper or the equivalent 4000 grit stone. When it comes time to pare or do other delicate hand work where no mallet is used, I will go much higher since in these cases it makes a quality difference.

I'm a firm believer that many folks make sharpening into a fetish rather than simply a means to an end.

[Louis Bois]

I wholeheartedly concur with Dave on this one. Really fine honing should only be used for those delicate "finishing" cuts. The extra effort is almost completely wasted on everyday chisel tasks.

As Mark mentioned, those first few blows will take that "mini-micron" edge down in a hurry. Sharpen the tools for the task at hand for the best time/results ratio.

[Howie French]

thanks everyone for all of your responses.

Dave your response makes alot of sense, I currently own 1 set of chisels (homedepot stanleys) that I sharpen to 4000. This has been fine for every day use, however I have recently begun doing more delicate tasks including handcut dovetails, and I was beginning to think it would be easier with sharper chisels. I am also considering buying another set of chisels (currently leaning towards Ashley Iles). So what seems to make the most sense is to keep sharpening my everyday chisels to 4000, and sharpen by new set of chisels to 8000 and reserve these for my more delicate tasks.


Howie

[Rob Blaustein]

How sharp do you need a chisel to be? Answer: just sharp enough to do the job. For general use like wasting away stock chopping, and I don't bother sharpening beyond 600 to 1000 girt SC paper or the equivalent 4000 grit stone. Is there a reference that provides some sort of comparison between waterstone grits and sandpaper grits, as Dave has started to do above?

[Richard Niemiec]

This is a research piece on sandpaper and waterstones which I googled up out of curiosity, I have not read it all but there is a table B-1 in the back that compares grit size.

Table B1
Micron Equivalents of Silicon Carbide and Japanese Waterstones based on Manufacturer
Scales
Abrasive Paper Value (FEPA)
a

[THIS TABLE DID NOT TRANSLATE WELL WHEN PASTED, GO TO LINK BELOW]

a
Sandpaper values and micron equivalents obtained from 3M, Superabrasives &
Microfinishing Systems Abrasive-Grade Comparison Chart (8/2001)
b
JIS values and micron equivalents obtained from Japan Woodworker
Abrasive-Grade Comparison Chart (3/2001).

Here's the link:

http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/theses/available/etd-10282002-104344/unrestricted/etd.pdf (http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/theses/available/etd-10282002-104344/unrestricted/etd.pdf).

[Steven Wilson]

For a blades in decent shape I go 2000 (if needed), 5000 and 8000 (shapton). For some chisels (paring) and plane irons (shoulder plane) I go up to 15000 (shapton). If a blade needs more work I start at a lower grit or work it on the Tormek as appropriate.

[Rob Blaustein]

This is a research piece on sandpaper and waterstones which I googled up out of curiosity, I have not read it all but there is a table B-1 in the back that compares grit size.

Table B1
Micron Equivalents of Silicon Carbide and Japanese Waterstones based on Manufacturer
Scales
Abrasive Paper Value (FEPA)
a

[THIS TABLE DID NOT TRANSLATE WELL WHEN PASTED, GO TO LINK BELOW]

a
Sandpaper values and micron equivalents obtained from 3M, Superabrasives &
Microfinishing Systems Abrasive-Grade Comparison Chart (8/2001)
b
JIS values and micron equivalents obtained from Japan Woodworker
Abrasive-Grade Comparison Chart (3/2001).

Here's the link:

http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/theses/available/etd-10282002-104344/unrestricted/etd.pdf (http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/theses/available/etd-10282002-104344/unrestricted/etd.pdf).



Thanks Richard. Here's that table, for those who don't want to download the pdf:
56481

[John Schreiber]

A while ago, I put together an Excel spreadsheet with data from a couple of sources to see how different grit measures compared. Hope the attachment is helpful to somebody.