Craftsman 22124

[Paul Maxwell]

I may be picking up a 1 year old Craftsman 22124 table saw today and I am looking for any last minutes thoughts from this group. I am a new member but long time lurker and have been working with a Delta contractor saw without any dust collection. I am in the midst of setting up a new workspace and have been looking for a cabinet saw to add to a relative "starter" Jet 1.5hp dust collector that I will be moving from tool to tool until a more permanent solution can be acquired.

Even though I know that many have been able to locate more powerful, well known table saws for $500.00 or less my search has been without any success. I truly would like to move forward in getting a decent shop up and running, but am wondering if this will be the right purchase for me. At this time, I will be doing the typical home workshop projects and do need the ability to make precise and accurate cuts, because I have found I am a little anal about small "mistakes".

It would be helpful to me to get some feedback about this Craftsman 22124 from users, because, even though I have read the initial reviews and comments about this machine upon its introduction, it has been difficult to find information from some that have been able to use it for a while now. All the normal questions are there for me, accuracy of cuts, is there enough power, dust collection, durability, and so on....

The saw I am looking at has all standard equipment; Biese fence system, miter gauge and fence system, retractable outfeed table and right side extension table. Add ons are a new Tenryu blade, nicely made crosscut sled and Jet mobile base. Price $500.00. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!!

I probably should have put this is another section. Moderator, move if you please.

[Tom Henry]

I have a Craftsman zip code TS and as a hobbyist I think it serves its purpose just fine. I have the middle of the road model and have been very happy with it. I recently had to cut 2 1/4" rock maple with it and did just fine... $500 is a fair price considering all the extras...

[Guy Germaine]

I've had the 22124 for a little over a year now and I'm completely satisfied with it. It's done all that I've asked of it so far. The Bies fence is great, and the saw had pretty good dust collection. If you're thinking about a right-side router table, the first thing I suggest is to throw the el-cheapo extension that comes with it as far as you can. :D Build youself a nice, sturdy router table extension.

[Don Dean]

As a beginner woodworker I choose the Craftsman 22124 and have been very happy with its performance.

I would like to extend the tables right side if I only knew how.

[Dewayne Reding]

Paul

I like my 22124 a lot. IMHO, there is nothing even close to it for the same money. I paid $799 for mine. It is smooth and accurate. Power seems just fine to me, but I haven't cut 12/4 oak with it yet. The Biesemeyer fence is incredibly heavy duty and accurate. Lietz blade was a pleasant surprise. I had intended to upgrade it. To this point I can not justify a new blade.

[scott spencer]

My 22124 has been serving me well since April, 2005. With the right blade choice, there's nothing it hasn't cut with relative ease, including 12/4" hard maple. It's no PM66, but it's been more than adequate for this weekend warrior.

I slid the rails 10" to the right for a 40" rip capacity, and added a router table on the right side.

[Dewayne Reding]

"I slid the rails 10" to the right for a 40" rip capacity"

Scott,

I didn't even consider that as a possibility. Anything tricky about it? Any downside. (Other than the obvious loss of range on the left side).

[Paul Maxwell]

Thanks for the replies so far! If you could do it again would get another 22124? What do you all think of the price of $500.00 for the rig that I described in the first post?

Paul

[glenn bradley]

I got mine for under $700 with some freebies thrown in for some effort I had to put out due to a bad top on the first saw. So, your $500 sounds like a good deal. I have been very happy and would do it again. The power seems like more than the rated 1 3/4HP, dust collection is good. Mine is very stable but I added an additional CI wing in place of the rather useless Bies extension and have a RT hanging off the left side. The whole rig is probably around 600lbs., has low vibration and the trunnions are a pleasure to use. I run thin kerf blades as that is what I had a collection of from my contractor saw days but a full kerf should be no problem if that is your preference.

P.s. The folks at Orion are a pleasure to work with is you have questions or problems. They sent me some replacement parts that I didn't even request due to my description of them not meeting their expectations of their product.

[scott spencer]

... If you could do it again would get another 22124? What do you all think of the price of $500.00 for the rig that I described in the first post?

Paul

I'd definitely do it again given your circumstances, and given a 110v restriction....but I'd also consider the Steel City version of the same basic design. I do have 220v available, so at much over $800 I'd be looking towards a full 3hp cabinet saw, but other than a good used cab saw, I can't think of anything else in the $500-$800 range I'd be interested in to replace the 22124.

[scott spencer]

"I slid the rails 10" to the right for a 40" rip capacity"

Scott,

I didn't even consider that as a possibility. Anything tricky about it? Any downside. (Other than the obvious loss of range on the left side).

Hi DeWayne - You'll need to reattach the switch, and you'll need to lift and reset or replace the tape. The actual rail shift was a 10 minute no brainer.

[Gary Eneberg]

I bought one of these two months ago and could not be happier. I was also limited to 110V and this seemed to be the best option at the lowest price to boot.

You won't be sorry, I've yet to find anything that bugs me about this saw and the Biesemeyer is great.

[Dewayne Reding]

Thanks Scott, there have been a few times I wished it would rip about 35". I think the max in stock config is about 31 1/2.

Paul,

I absolutely would buy it again. Now quit rubbing your $500 deal in our face. You know darn well that's a steal. :) That much won't get you a Delta contractor saw with a good fence. $1000 is the price point where I would consider something better than the 22124.

Regarding Orion. They are very good. I bought the Craftman Professional (Orion) jointer last week. Unfortunately, a China product like everything else I can afford. Some panels damaged. Orion shipped them in 24 hours. Dewalt does the same though. They know shipping damage is a fact of life with everything coming from 7000 miles away.

[Mike Heidrick]

$500 is awesome for that saw!! Congrats.

[Tom Pritchard]

Paul, I've had my 22124 since March of 2005, and I have been completely satisfied with it! I would buy it again in a heartbeat. It has done everything I've asked of it, and has had zero problems. Great fence, great table, great price, go for it!!!!

[Don Mitchell]

The fence alone is $300! As for the saw, I've got one if the saws as well and I'm very happy with also.

[Alan Greene]

I have had my 22124 for about 14 months. I am very happy with it and have had zero problems. For that price it is definitely a good deal. I added a Bench Dog router table in place of the stock extension and it is working well. I would make the same decision again. Yes the dust collection is pretty good, but to make it better, and add a safety margin, I am adding the shark splitter and overhead guard. Enjoy the saw:) :) :)

[glenn bradley]

Thanks for reminding me Alan. Overhead guard here too, PSI.

[Larry Zeiser]

I have had mine for about 2 months and would buy it again in a heartbeat. The only thing I am not crazy about is the miter gauge. I am saving my nickles to buy the Osborne EB3. Other than that it is a great saw for this hobbyist.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Do any of the other hybrids have cabinet mounted trunnions? For those of you with the zip code, how was set-up out of the box? That seems to be the one item where the saw is lacking (significantly out of aligmenment blade/mitre slots), but needs nothing more than a little setup time.

JH

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Another positive vote for the 22124. I've had mine about a year. Definately recommend thin kerf blade. Moving rails to right is super simple. So is moving them back because they take up too much room! LOL. $500 is a fair price, especially with the extra blade and mobile base.

[Paul Douglass]

I have had mine for about 2 months and would buy it again in a heartbeat. The only thing I am not crazy about is the miter gauge. I am saving my nickles to buy the Osborne EB3. Other than that it is a great saw for this hobbyist.

I have this miter gauge and when I get a new saw I'm getting a Woodhaven 9401. Just my opinion but I have a hard time keeping the EB3 true. Mind does not have a "T" bar for the miter slot bar. Maybe that woukd make it better. The EB3 is a good miter, I'm just not as happy with it as I thought I would be. Others may be.

I see the Craftsmans saw for $1099, How do you guys get it so cheap?

[Tom Awesome]

I have had my Craftsman for about 3 weeks and have loved it. The parallelism between the miter slots and the blade was the toughest part.

I was being VERY anal about following the setup instructions, and already had the cast iron wings attached and squared up, top is nice and flat, THEN it tells you to check the parallelism... turns out with the 'factory' setting made my blade hit the bottom of the center cast iron section!!! I figured, no problem, i can just loosen the top and square it up... nope. There wasn't even enough wiggle room in the top-to-cabinet alignment holes to square the blade!

I had to pull the top clear off, and wobble the holes out a little, then put the top back on. Didn't do it enough. Top off again, wobble again, top on, still not enough. I kept doing this for litterally HOURS and HOURS taking out just a little material at a time, as i didn't want to have TOO much wiggle room. After a while, I was able to get it nice and square, but what a pain!!

About the only thing i don't like about the saw is the factory insert, but making yourself a new one is obviously not too hard. I have put about everything through the blade i have laying around the shop, from pine to oak, cherry, walnut and MDF, all cut nice and smooth and straight.

I can't wait to start with the mods! :D

[Paul Maxwell]

Thanks for the warm welcome! I have visited other sites and I must say you all have made me feel right at home.

I am now the proud owner of an almost perfect condition 22124!:) Everything was in great shape and all accessories are present and accounted for. The additions make for what will be a nice setup for me. I could only back my trailer(with saw) into the garage till this evening, when I will have time to unload it and make some sawdust.

The seller had just completed a very nice crosscut sled with cocobola miter tracks, plexi dust shields and a replaceable insert for different type blades. He also had done a small tool storage drawer in the end of the Bies fence rail which works great. The new Tenryu blade will go on tonight!

Thanks again to you all, and any other tips on this machine would be great!

Paul

P.S. I spotted a nice Disston hand saw on his bench that he said I could have for $5.00. Sold!

[Paul Douglass]

Paul Maxwell, can't believe all this... No pictures!:(

[Tom Henry]

Pics...Pics...Pics...We need proof!!! I want to see both saws!!!:rolleyes:

[Paul Maxwell]

Paul Maxwell, can't believe all this... No pictures!:(

Point taken! I am somewhat technically challenged and am currently enthralled in the classic "Craftsman 22124 Owners Manual", but I do understand the relevance of photographic evidence. I will soon make my first attempt so bear with me.

[scott spencer]

...I am now the proud owner of an almost perfect condition 22124!:)

P.S. I spotted a nice Disston hand saw on his bench that he said I could have for $5.00. Sold!

Two...two... two gloats in one! Congrats on your new acquisition(s). Enjoy!

[glenn bradley]

Jake,

The cab-mount trunnions and the Bies fence were what tipped me to the C-man/Orion. Setup was OK. I did have to adjust the table top for position to satisfy my extra-picky personality but it took all of about 30 minutes to completly align the saw including the table adjustment. That was a far cry from my table mounted trunnion machines despite PALS, etc.

[glenn bradley]

Tom,

I had trouble with one of my castings. Called the 800 number and had a new one in three days. Problem solved. The area of castings seems to get the most complaint from Orion.

[Alan Greene]

It may be two gloats in one, but as I recall it didn't happen till we see pictures, pictures and more pictures.

Paul if you need help getting the pictures posted I am sure someone will be more than happy to help.

Alan

[Paul Maxwell]

Ok folks, now what do I do? After having lost too many brain cells naking the decision to purchase this Craftsman 22124 from a fine gentleman(pics will come), I receive the surprise phone call from the past. Several weeks ago I had a conversation with a Shop Foreman at a boat building company who planned to sell some equipment. Nothing ever came of it and I had moved forward in my quest for a table saw.

Now I get a call from "Bob" who says they are now ready to sell and he is working on a deadline. He would be listing some equipment for sale to include a 2003 Delta Uni, 5hp, right tilt, Bies 52" fence , 220v single phase for $897.00. OK, not a bad price but more than I had been prepared to spend. I told him that I was budgeting more like $500.00 for a saw. He said he couldn't do it that low.(Thank God, cause I just spent my $500.00)

Now I just got the second call from "Bob" who wanted to let me know he had spoken to his boss who said he would not go any lower than $650.00!!! Now what!!!??? He also said that they had other saws in the shop that had gotten most of the use because they were three phase and were more "powerful" and that this one was not only in nice shape but excellant shape! He said he would meet me there early in the morning and could fork lift it onto my trailer. UUUUUGGGGGHHHHH:confused:

So, should I just be happy and forget about it or........

Can you smell the brain cells burning?!

Paul

[glenn bradley]

Oh the pain. The 5HP Uni is much more of a saw. The 52" fence is sweet but takes room. How is your electrical to your shop? Can you support the 5HP 220v saw or is there another few hundred dollars in sub-panel, breakers, etc. waiting in the wings. If I had the choice I probably would go for the Uni and save my money to re-wire my gara . . . er, shop to support it. I didn't have this option and was pretty well restricted to some type of 110v hybrid when I made my choice. The 22124 was the right saw for me and my circumstances. How about yours? Burn those brain cells baby!

[Paul Maxwell]

Oh the pain. The 5HP Uni is much more of a saw. The 52" fence is sweet but takes room. How is your electrical to your shop? Can you support the 5HP 220v saw or is there another few hundred dollars in sub-panel, breakers, etc. waiting in the wings. If I had the choice I probably would go for the Uni and save my money to re-wire my gara . . . er, shop to support it. I didn't have this option and was pretty well restricted to some type of 110v hybrid when I made my choice. The 22124 was the right saw for me and my circumstances. How about yours? Burn those brain cells baby!

Glenn,

My "shop" is currently my garage, but I am in the midst of redoing an area in the back of our house and will be starting over with a blank sheet of paper, so to speak. My new space will probably be 20'x30', a garage door opening and seperate electrical service. I haven't even begun to quiz all of you about shop plans yet!! My head hurts!

[scott spencer]

Interesting dilemna Paul. There's not going to be alot of argument about which saw is more substantial, but there's definitely room for debate about which one best suits your needs.

If you've got 220v and the room for the Uni, I think it's a no brainer...pick up the Uni and sell the 22124. If you don't have 220v or the room...pick up the Uni and resell it for a tidy profit of $200-$300 and buy some other stuff for the shop with it....oh...and take the LOYL to dinner! ;)

[Mike Goetzke]

I agree w/ Scott. Buy both saws and try them out and keep the one you like best. Also, many of the accessories for the 22124 might fit the Uni.

You have a nice problem to have.


Mike

[Paul Maxwell]

Does there ever come a time when you stop looking for better tools that what you may already have? Do I have a new undocumented disease for which there is no cure?

[Denny Rice]

I'd definitely do it again given your circumstances, and given a 110v restriction....but I'd also consider the Steel City version of the same basic design. I do have 220v available, so at much over $800 I'd be looking towards a full 3hp cabinet saw, but other than a good used cab saw, I can't think of anything else in the $500-$800 range I'd be interested in to replace the 22124.


Both the Steel City and the Craftsman 22124 are both made by Orion. As a matter of fact Orion is now owned by Steel City, this is why both saws look identical and if you download both owners manuals you will find they both have "OR" as part of their part numbers for re-ordering parts. I hope this helps in making your decision. I have had the 22124 for over 2 yrs and love it.

[Steve Rybicki]

Ok folks, now what do I do? After having lost too many brain cells naking the decision to purchase this Craftsman 22124 from a fine gentleman(pics will come), I receive the surprise phone call from the past. Several weeks ago I had a conversation with a Shop Foreman at a boat building company who planned to sell some equipment. Nothing ever came of it and I had moved forward in my quest for a table saw.

Now I get a call from "Bob" who says they are now ready to sell and he is working on a deadline. He would be listing some equipment for sale to include a 2003 Delta Uni, 5hp, right tilt, Bies 52" fence , 220v single phase for $897.00. OK, not a bad price but more than I had been prepared to spend. I told him that I was budgeting more like $500.00 for a saw. He said he couldn't do it that low.(Thank God, cause I just spent my $500.00)

Now I just got the second call from "Bob" who wanted to let me know he had spoken to his boss who said he would not go any lower than $650.00!!! Now what!!!??? He also said that they had other saws in the shop that had gotten most of the use because they were three phase and were more "powerful" and that this one was not only in nice shape but excellant shape! He said he would meet me there early in the morning and could fork lift it onto my trailer. UUUUUGGGGGHHHHH:confused:

So, should I just be happy and forget about it or........

Can you smell the brain cells burning?!

Paul

Paul, you're a lucky guy. I've been scouring half a state for a good used saw - at any reasonable price, and I've come up completely empty. Of course, that's typical for me, which is why I don't buy lottery tickets. I don't think you can go wrong with either choice. Good luck.

[Gary Muto]

Uni-Saw is 1/2 of teh original cost. Easy choice

[Gary Muto]

I meant easily 1/3 the cost. You could easily get your money out of it after 20 years. Not so with the Cman

[Loren Hedahl]

Does there ever come a time when you stop looking for better tools that what you may already have? Do I have a new undocumented disease for which there is no cure?


My experience is when I was a beginner I fell for a lot of gizmos to assist me in my inexperience to put out work that was above my level. Over time I have found the gizmos to also have limitations and they get used less and less and most not at all any more.

I think if I had stayed with my first Craftsman 9 inch radial arm saw, invested in several top quality hand planes and chisels and put more time and effort in maximizing what I could get out of those tools, I would be a better woodworker today.

The issue is precision vs fit. Precision is needed in a production effort. Fit is more important in a one-off craftsman effort. For a good discussion of this, read some of the James Krenov books. I am always amazed at the beautiful items he made a living at with a minimum of equipment.

Loren

[Bruce Wrenn]

Does there ever come a time when you stop looking for better tools that what you may already have? Do I have a new undocumented disease for which there is no cure?It's called "Wood Guy Disease" and is well documented over on the NC Woodworker site. Highly contagious, and the symptoms can only be relived by buying more tools. Right now mine is in remission. Translated, that means I have spent my budget. As soon as I can get a monetary transfusion, it will flare back up.

[Brian Clevenger]

No, you will never stop looking at tools. You might be fortunate to stop buying them if you are extremely lucky though.

I had the 22124 saw for a couple of years, and loved it. I never had a bad cut or an alignment issue. I used full kerf blades, and never stalled on 8/4 walnut.

However, when a used PM66 hit my local market, the 22124 had to go.

I would probably get the Uni myself, given the situation. You should be able to flip the 22124 and get your money back pretty easily.