The Proverbial Question

[Ken Salisbury]

In reference to the Grizzly vs Jet thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?threadid=4934)

The proverbial question surfaces again "is X better than Y".

The answer to which will never be clear. Every woodworker I know (and believe me I know a few) has the tendency to answer in favor of the brand he owns and not necessarily based on actually experience with both "X" and "Y". A lot of those answers are clouded by the respondent's desire to convince himself/herself that he/she made the right choice when their purchase was made.

The comparisions made by the respondents usually include statements such as: "X" is the same as "Y" because it is made in the same factory and in appearance is identical, but "Y" is much cheaper". Or "My "X" does just as good a job as Joe Blow's "Y" and I paid $100.00 less than Joe did".

Factories in foriegn countries do indeed produce equipment for multiple equipment distributors. This equipment is normally from a basic design (the vanilla version). Companies "X" and "Y" then make changes to the "vanilla" version to suit their needs and desires. Some of these changes are subtle, some are quite obvious. All of which either add to or subtract from the cost. Some companies insist on parts of higher quality/function, etc. Hence, part of the reason for a difference in the distributor's price for a given tool.

Many factors need to be considered in making a choice as to buying "X" or "Y". Things like $, application, spare parts availability, warranty, service, and on, and on, and on.

A person needs to consider all these factors when making a tool purchasing decision. What is best for him - not what is best for Joe Blow. Carefully review the specs on both "X" and "Y" and read all the reviews you can on the equipment.

So, I will not give an answer as to whether Grizzly is better or worse than Jet for instance. I have owned and used both and have an opinion but will refrain from giving it here because the question to too generic.

"Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder"If you think "X" will do what you want to your satisfaction - then buy "X". If not then buy "Y"


OK - The "Old Rebel" has run off at the mouth too long on this one.

"YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR"

[John Wadsworth]

Asian machinery manufacturers are run much like Asian clothing factories--the US buyers can get each design customized to what they think their market will want/pay for. Chinese-made shirts at K-Mart don't look anything like Chinese-made shirts at Saks--so why should Taiwanese table saws for Brand X be the same as those for Brand Y?

It's no more true to say X and Y are the same "because" they're made by the same folks than to say X is better than Y "because" it costs more. Examples and counterexamples of both abound, so the categorical statements are both simply untrue.

But nobody badmouths my PM66, see?

John

[Bart Leetch]

Your Pm 66 is just the biggest boat anchor. When you throw it over the side of the boat. BUT IT WILL NEVER HIT THE WATER Cuz I'LL BE THERE TO TRY & CATCH IT..... HE HE HE.

[Mike Evertsen]

buying tools are like buying cars there are those that will nothing but fords and there that will swear fords are junk they will buy nothing but a chevy,,,,,when I am looking for car I want a car that the fewest problems,,,and then I look at price and features on it that I want,,power window ,,,automatatic,,,ect.
thats the same when I buy power tools I know what I want but what I want to know is has more woodworkers had more problems with certain brand of machines than another brand,,then I compare everything on 3 or 4 different machines,,then I look at prices,,,why spend 300.00 more for a delta than a grizzly if the grizzly will do the same job as the delta and the reponses are favorble for both,,,,,,,that is why I think these boards can help alot in deciding which machine brand to becuase I get alot of imput on problems ,,service,,is the machine dependable,,,does the planer stall doing lite cuts,,I don't think one company needs to be slammed over another,,,,,,,,,

[Mike Cutler]

Ken. I couldn't agree more with you. The debate over one tool manufacturer vs. another manufacturer will never end. In the end it comes down to pick the one that you believe meets your needs best. I onced watched a person "build" a tablesaw out of a circularsaw.four 1/4-20 bolts with nuts and washers, a sheet of plywood, a 2x4 and a broken construction level and he was able to make some very precise and repeatable cuts with it. I know that all the eqiupment I own exceeds the quality and reliability of that setup,so any errors I encounter are generally operator induced. I primarily own Jet Equipment because I like the color( Somebody has to say it!). I don't like the color green, I won't own anything painted "battleship" grey, and the color of Powermatic Equipment doesn't do anything for me. I realize that my criteria is not exactly steeped in enginerring analysis and is definitely subjective in nature. It's just like picking puppies, eventually you just have to reach into the box, grab one and hope it all works out. By the way, my Jet stuff has way better colors than the other manufacturers equipment. Have a good day folks and enjoy whatever you have, no matter what the color.

[John Weber]

Ken,

I agree, want is important to one may or may not be important to another. When buying tools you need to look at your needs and what various companies offer. In most cases the cheapest price may not be the best value. There are many other things to consider: local vs. internet buying, local service, warranty, accessories, track record, parts availability, resale, etc… Add these to ease of use, fit and finish, and functionality, now you can start making choices for your self what is the best price/features/value for you. I typically recommend tools I feel are the best value.

On the importers, as many may know I have a very small vintage Delta parts (run out of my home), at least once a month I get an email from a an Asian manufacturer that will build woodworking machines for me (to my spec?) and labeled however I want. I can see it now, arguments about the latest 10” Weber Saw and the Unisaw. Anyway, my assumption is it doesn’t take a lot to buy a container full of woodworking tools and resell them, so buyers must be informed and buy the best tool for them.

John

P.S. It is a lot like cars (Yugos, Chevys, Hondas, and Hummers)...

[Dave Hammelef]

Another problem with looking to the boards you get anacdodal evidence at best, and very very biased at worst. If you look at the data, for cars for instance you will see that several US brands perform better for warranty than some of the Big asian names Toyota, Honda. But look at the boards and thats not what you see. Do you want to admit you spent the extra money for PM66 and are not happy, Well I will, but thats gone now and selling it and buying something new at best leaves me the same cash and less iron.

On being built in the same plant, Well I have first hand knowledge of car parts that are identical come of the same line with the same parts. They are then all tested (Yes 100% tested), those within a certain performance spec go to Manufacture A (untill there alot ment is full), the next level of performance and the left over really good ones go to manufacture B (till thats done) and all the rest go to Manufacture C. What happens when they get to the final assembly I dont know maybe manufacture C is getting a better price and so they throw a bunch away and only use the ones that are good, or maybe manufacture A is paying for performance no one will ever notice. (Gee my carpet lasted 50 yrs, to bad the floor rusted out at 30 and the engine seized at 35).

[Von Bickley]

buying tools are like buying cars

Mike said it very well. Tools & Cars. Sometimes you get a good one, sometimes you get a lemon.

When you buy a new car or a major tool, you just hope you get a good one.

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Well stated Ken........................and like you, I AIN"T GOIN' THERE EITHER! :D Research the market, find what suits YOUR needs, and buy using the best information you can obtain. Really pretty simple when you sort it all out................then again, maybe not! ;)

[Terry Hatfield]

Ah 'o wise and ancient one, you have struck the proverbial nail squarely on the head once again. :D

Terry

[Glenn Clabo]

Well said Ken...
I have the research...touch...feel...decide on my own philosophy. I respectfully listen to peoples opinions...but I really don't let someone else decide on a purchase. I think I've been around long enough to know what's solid and built well enough within my price range and usage rate. I do ask what I should know about setting it up once I've decided and bought it though. There are always little tweaks that help save some set up and usage time.

My other hobby is photography...you should hear the equipment arguements in that world. It gets down right ugly when someone says Nikon/Canon/etc is the best...or worst. I don't understand why anyone would buy other than Canon. :D