circular stairs

[pete collins]

ok where to begin. be patient please...I have done alot of stair work but first time with full curved staircase. i am trying to retro old curved stairs (about 5 foot inside radius)that were carpeted. going to put new oak treads and rail. the original trim stringer on wall is not mortised for treads and the outside open stringer was not cut for mitered risers(hope your following).i dont want to scribe tread to wall(easiest) for fear of squeaks so i want to mortise in...possible on old stringer???...how???make new???best way??? outside stringer i will have to make new for risers or use the decrotive
stairbrackets.thoughts? also i know the open side of treads should be curved, but is it ok for each tread to be cut straight but in line with curve? dont have enough money to tear out old framing and start new so i have to work with framing i got. any info,insight,closeup pictures would be appreciated.
I see Richard Wolf seems to be the stair guru but all suggestions are welcome.

[Richard Wolf]

Pete, you can mortise the old stringer in place. I make a cope of my template from 1/4" ply and it will bend to match the curve of the stringer. The pics below may help.
Decrotive brackets will hide the lack of meters, or you may be able to reveneer the inside stringer.
The overall look of you staircase will not suffer if you choose to use straight edge treads instead of curved, but sometimes it's the details that count on a project like this.

Richard

[Richard Wolf]

I just wanted to add a few things; 1/4" ply will not give you much of a bearing surface, I use alot of 3/8" bending ply, maybe you can find some.
Also use the smallest router you can, working on a vertical surface will cause fatigue and you will let the router slip.
If you need any help, just ask.

Richard

[Roger Everett]

Pete:
When doing a stairs ( straight or curved ), the first thing I do is " chase the stairs", which is to measure it all out, to make sure it will be in code. This is particularly important if the stairs was built for having carpet on it, as they generally allow 1/2 - 3/4" above, for the carpet and you'll be putting on treads which are 1--1 1/16" thick. This means they're first and last step will be off from the rest. Even on a no-permit remodel, I don't take the chance with my liability, something must be done to bring in code.
As far as putting on the treads, I don't know how much slack you have in your bid to mortice in treads into what I asssume, is you are refering to as stringer is really skirtboard, lot of extra work. I just use a templete and pin fit the treads with const. adhev. and have never had a squeeker.
When I first did a curved stair, I was doing sub-installations for a large stair company, they wanted all the returns curved to match the curve of the stairs. Their ops. mgr. stopped by and showed me their method of doing it, which I thought was really "Neanderthal". When he left I did one more, and thought it was BS. Thought it over on the way home and next morning I came up with a way to cut the tread scrib to the skirtboard and the return fit at the same time ( like cutting a sandwitch ). The first took some time, but then I got in the grove. It does take a bit more time, and time is $$, so it comes down to what do you have in the bid and what is the common practice by other stair companies in your area. All said and done I really think a curved to match return, does look better.

Roger

[pete collins]

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first off...thanks for the help
this is what im dealing with(hope the pics work).im not sure if i can route the stringer(skirtboard) where and how it sits. so ill have to decide what way to go...make new and route(which im leaning towards...with your alls help)or just scribe and glue. as far as the straight verses curved return...how do you cut the curve? only on return or tread and return...if on tread and return do you use router and template? i already have "chased the stairs" and had to adjust(gonna be lots more adjusting) This is a T&M job, so no worries on losing my arse, but i do want to keep client happy. They did opt not to replace the whole stair unit and just dress it up. So this is not an over the top project and definately not low end. This is also part of a whole house remodel.
thanks
Pete

[Richard Wolf]

I can see that you do not have enough material to route the stringer to accept the treads. I would work with the stringers that are there. Scribe the new treads to the wall stringer and build cleats under each tread to secure in place.
Once the tread fits into place. scribe the return side and use a jig saw to cut the curve, you may also be able to clamp some stock to the tread to cut the return at the same time or rescribe a return piece and cut with the jig saw again.
The most difficult thing about curved stairs is the stringers, if you can avoid making new ones you will save alot of time and energy.

Richard