HELP!!! French Polishing

[Joe Jensen]

I stupidly decided to try French Polishing on the 8 jewelry boxes I was building for Christmas 2006. At this rate, I'll be lucky to get them done for Christmas 2007. I bought blond dewaxed shellac flakes and anhydrous alcohol from Woodcraft. I have been applying the shellac with a pad. The first pad I made from old t-shirt fabric inside and out. I read another place that one needed wool inside and linen outside. I found the linen to leave less line (Like brush marks). I've been applying and sanding for days. I started with a 2lb cut, and I've gone down to a 1 lb cut. I can't seem to get the finish to lay down. Can anyone help, I'm going crazy...joe

[Mike Null]

I'm not quite sure where you are on your project but have you put a lubicant on your rubber? Something like mineral oil?

I usually use old bed sheets or cotton muslin for the rubber.

[Jim DeLaney]

This will sound like sacrilege to the purists, but I use Zinnzer SealCoat (which is about a 2# cut) and a rubber made from old bed sheeting with a wadded up blue shop towel (the paper kind) inside. I use a drop or two of either mineral oil or Camellia oil on the rubber, too. I just apply shellac to the rubber from a squeeze bottle, until the towelling is moist - not saturated and wet - and then start applying.

The wood is prepped beforehand by sanding to 320 or 400..

The first couple coats, I rub on. after that, I use the 'airplane landing and taking off' method, adding a drop of oil to the rubber now and then, if it seems to 'stick.' I usually start getting a reasonably good build after about three coats, with a really nice gloss to it. Let it dry/cure for several days before waxing it.

I firmly believe that so-called French polishing has been hyped to extreme. It's actually a pretty simple finish to apply, and of course, repair is simply applying some more, since each new coat/application dissolves into the one under it.

[Steve Schoene]

What kind of wood are you attempting to finish? If you have an open pored wood you also need to fill those pores in a process that incorporates fine pumice both as a filler and as an abrasive.

In general, you shouldn't have any sanding to do during the process of French polishing. The pad or rubber is much more than a pad for wiping on shellac. You can apply shellac that way, but that isn't French polishing. The lubrication--mineral oil works fine--is an essential part of the process since it allows you to apply serious pressure while applying very small amounts of shellac. Its this pressure that distributes the finish very smoothly and thinly to achieve the high gloss with no apparent thickness that constitutes a French polished finish.

If you google french polish how to you will discover loads of detailed instructions.

[Joe Jensen]

Maybe I've been making too much of this, putting too much mystery in it. I started by reading lots on the WEB (I live on GOOGLE).

I probably read too many different approaches and mixed them together. From all the reading I took away this process;
1) Sand to 320 or higher
2) Fill the pores if necessary (not necessary as I'm using curly maple)
3) Build with 1.5-2 lb cut shellac and a rubber. (one article said to make the rubber from old t-shirts, the other said to only linen with wool inside
4) Add shellac only to the top of the rubber
5) once a base coat is built, stop and let dry overnight
6) switch to a lighter cut, maybe 1 lb. Add a drop of oil, and again shellac.
I think I'm doing two things wrong, wetting the rubber too much with shellac, and not using oil. I felt like I could never get the base coat smooth enough so I never got to the point of using mineral oil. Also, the articles and books I read mostly said to use olive oil. I don't have mineral oil, do I need to go find some?
Also, do I need to use pumice at the end? I read one article that said to add #4 pumice and shellac to the top of the rubber at the very end. Sounded weird, but I assumed the pumice would work it's way down through the rubber and to the surface.

Sounds like I should be using less shellac, and some oil all the way through. How long does it take (minutes or hours) to do a 12" by 16" surface?

thanks..joe

[Eric Sabo]

I've practiced French polishing quite a bit, as I love the ease of applying it.

I basically do what Jim D above describes, but I usually use Boiled Linseed oil as the lubricant. I take Zinnser Sealcoat as well, but I usually cut it in half. Can says its a 3lb cut. I just apply it enough so that it turns mirror-like, however many coats that may take.

My favorite thing to do it on is Walnut, using Amber Shellac.

I think you're making a simple process out to be more than it needs to be. Just never stop with the pad and make sure you dont have too much Shellac on it. If you pat the back of your hand it should just barely stick and make a nifty splat sound, leaving just a tiny film of shellac, not a glop.

Rub it in like you're waxing a car, and just keep going until the desired sheen has been achieved.

[Joe Jensen]

Can one of you explain how to add the oil to the rubber? Apply a drop to the bottom? Does the alcohol spread the oul across the rubber?

[Larry Fox]

Both Jeff Jewitt and Bob Flexner give good descriptions of it in their book. I have only done it once and then only under the supervision of Jeff Jewitt (in a class) and their instructions in the book agree with the way he demonstrated so it should point you in the right direction.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

You need a lube for the shellac.
I have read that people use (in no particular order):

Olive oil

Boiled Linseed oil ( I'd try this forst because it really does cure off)

Mineral oil

It's like a couple of drops on the pad. The pad should be any smongy material with a lint free cotton covering,.

I am unconvinced that olive oil or petoleum oil will evaporate correctly But what do I know I'm just some guy who plays a know-it-all on the internet.

[Joe Jensen]

Well, I tried some mineral oil and much less material on the pad. Started out ok, but after a minute or so I started getting short fibers from the pad in the finish. It's almost like the finish on the surface already softened enough that it really started grabbing the pad, even with oil. How are does one push down on the pad?...joe

[Mike Null]

Joe:

The rubber should be a lint free material such as an old bed sheet. It should be wrapped tightly around some stuffing which will hold some shellac. A few drops of oil on the rubber should be enough.

Use a pendulum action just barely touching the rubber to the wood. At the first sign of tackiness apply more shellac and oil to the rubber.

[Jerry Olexa]

Joe, I think its important that you apply the shellac and DA to the inner pad (the wool sock ) and NOT the outer wrap. The outer "bed sheet" material acts as a wick and pulls out the shellac/DA as needed. A drop of oil on the pad is also essential for padding on...

[Joe Jensen]

UPDATE

I've switched to an outer covering made from an old bedsheet, high threadcount. The inside is wool from an old sweater. I've been adding the shellac to the inside wool, and not to the outside covering.

I am now getting very smooth, almost glass smooth finish, but there are still very fine lines in the finish. They look like brush marks, but they are much finer. You can only see them with strong cross lighting. Is this as good as it gets? I have not been able to do any pad motion other then swiping back and forth across the surface. Whenever I try a circular motion, the shellac that I previously applied started to soften, and then I get much worse line. Also, I am only able to do one or two passes before I have to let the surface dry, maybe 15 minutes?

next suggestion, and thanks for the help so far...joe

[Joe Jensen]

BUMP, it's time for another frustrating day. I may give up tomorrow and spray as it's supposed to be nice out...joe

[Joe Jensen]

Final update, I figured it out. My pad was too wet. Seems pretty easy now that I've figured it out. thanks for the help...joe

[Don Bullock]

Great news Joe. Thanks for starting this thread and thank you to all who responded. I may try this some French Polishing in the future after what I've read here. That's one of the greatest things about this place.

[Eric Sabo]

Glad you got it figured out Joe.

[Steve Schoene]

Just a note about the choice of oil. I'd avoid the BLO precisely because it does cure. The idea is to complete the build of the shellac and then remove any remaining oil. Traditionally this was done by "spiriting off" using pure DNA to dissolve the oil and remove it, while at the same time, not overly disturbing the shellac. Needless to say, lots of vocabulary increases here. But, naptha works fine at removing the oil without touching the shellac. That's why a non-curing oil is desirable. Once it cures it can't be removed, and you could have "baked in" a bit of oil haze.

[Howard Acheson]

>> I may try this some French Polishing in the future after what I've read here.

Let me strongly suggest that one message to take away from this thread is that learning a new finish or finishing process should always be done on scrap. French polishing can produce a very nice finish but it doesn't happen automatically. It's a process that must be learned and practised. Never let your project be the place to learn a new process when it's so easy to learn/test on something else.

[Jerry Olexa]

Final update, I figured it out. My pad was too wet. Seems pretty easy now that I've figured it out. thanks for the help...joe

Joe you nailed it!!! That's what I learned also through experience. Hard to express in a thread. The pad is almost dry leaving a faint trail. Wet will mess you up and redissolve all. Less is More in this case..

[Joe Jensen]

Joe you nailed it!!! That's what I learned also through experience. Hard to express in a thread. The pad is almost dry leaving a faint trail. Wet will mess you up and redissolve all. Less is More in this case..

Two good points made here. 1) try on scrap first. I could do my usual spray finish due to weather and my last minute switch to french polish was a bad idea
2) The pad needs to be almost dry, but not dry. Took some practice to hold the fine line between too wet and too dry.

[Steve Schoene]

That's a point that can't be emphasized too much. Work out the finish before hand. It may even lead you to select a different material.

For, me the best time to practice the finish is before the project is fairly underway. I often use the actual boards to be used in the project before they have been fully thicknessed to test finish materials. A pass or two through the planer and it's all erased.