basement wall cabinets

[John Grossi]

Hi, Hopefully this question is okay for a woodworkers forum. I will be building cabinets for my basement shop and attaching them to my basement wall. My walls are built with a standard 10" block. What is the best way to attach them? Years ago I remember my dad drilling holes in the blocks, pounding in a plastic insert and putting a screw in that to attach something. Is this still the best way? If so do I drill into the block or the grout? Is there a better way? Thankyou Paul

[Dan Mages]

You can use this opportunity to frame in and finish the wall. A little while you're at it never hurts.

[Anthony Anderson]

Paul, You can do as Dan suggested, which will make your shop nicer (my opinion) and more comfortable to work in. You could frame it out with 2X3s instead of 2X4s which will same you some space(if space is a factor) wire, insulate and drywall. If you don't want to tackle that right now, then there is a concrete screw that has great holding power. They are called Tapcon and they are blue. If you google Tapcon and click on "images" at the top of the google page, you can see what they look like before you set out to find them. build your cabinets, support them in the place where you want to install, use the bit that comes in the Tapcon kit to drill through the wood and into the concrete and drive the screw. They work great. I never did trust the plastic anchors. Good Luck, and ask more questions if you are not sure. Regards, Bill

[Jim Becker]

Even though the walls are concrete, I'd still consider using "French Cleats" to mount the cabinets. You mount the cleats on the walls using anchors appropriate for the block and then just hang the cabinets (and many other things if you choose) on the cleats. It eliminates the need to futz around with holding up the cabinets, etc., while dealing with the fasteners...which is even more challenging on block.

[John Gregory]

Even though the walls are concrete, I'd still consider using "French Cleats" to mount the cabinets. You mount the cleats on the walls using anchors appropriate for the block and then just hang the cabinets (and many other things if you choose) on the cleats. It eliminates the need to futz around with holding up the cabinets, etc., while dealing with the fasteners...which is even more challenging on block.

Jim has given you great advice. I use french cleats where ever I can. And then when you want to frame and insulate the walls, the cabinets will be easy to remove and re-hang on french cleats again.

[Andrew Catron]

Do you know if the block is filled solid?

If it is, I would use one of these: http://www.ramset-redhead.com/RH/redselec01.asp I’ve used them before and they were available at my local HD

I’ve used tapcons before also, but I managed to snap a few….if you can get them in w/o snapping them they hold great.

Or you can use a powder actuated nailer (hilti, ramset, etc.) and shoot through a nailing board or French cleat (like jim said) to the block. Just make sure you select the right fastener.

If its not, I would frame out the wall as stated above.

You would still need a powder actuated nailer to fasten your sole plate to the concrete slab.

If you did frame out wall you can insulate it and deaden some of the sound bouncing off the block wall

[Jim Becker]

Even if a powder-actuated nailer is used to get the cleats up on the wall, I'd still be more comfortable with depending upon anchors to hold the weight over time. It does require drilling, but that's not generally too hard in small sizes and into block, even if it's filled. In other words, I have more confidence in the anchors than just the hardened nails.

[Bart Sharp]

Hi, Hopefully this question is okay for a woodworkers forum. I will be building cabinets for my basement shop and attaching them to my basement wall. My walls are built with a standard 10" block. What is the best way to attach them? Years ago I remember my dad drilling holes in the blocks, pounding in a plastic insert and putting a screw in that to attach something. Is this still the best way? If so do I drill into the block or the grout? Is there a better way? Thankyou Paul

Whether you mount the cabinets directly or use a french cleat (by far a better option I think), I've always been taught to drill into the mortar between blocks rather than the blocks themselves. I'm not entirely sure why, just one of those things I've been told by the old timers.

[John Grossi]

Thanks to you all for the great info. My blocks are not filled. It is new construction, and I put drylock on the 2 outside walls which is where I want to hang the cabinets. The other 2 walls are finished. The French Cleats sounds like a very good idea. I don't want to finish the outside walls because I am always leary of water problems. Paul

[Jim Becker]

The cleats should be high enough that they shouldn't compromise your DryLock materially with the fasteners, so the cleats would be a good solution. Even then you do have the option of "hanging" the cleats from the wood structure above right at the wall if you don't want to drill into your sealled walls. More (and more creative) work, but doable if you need to.

[Bob Michaels]

Paul, Gota tell ya, I sure wouldn't trust Tapcons or powder actiated nailers for this purpose. I just wouldn't trust them to overcome the forces created by loaded wall cabinets. I'd be concerned that the outward forces of the loaded wall cabinets would pull those anchors out of concrete blocks. I certainly would not use plastic anchors. No question, they are simply too wimpy. They're o.k. for very light loads. My solution would be as suggested above, frame yourself a 2x4 stud wall running from under the floor joists at the top down to the concrete floor. You don't need to double the top plate as in normal wall construction because there is no vertical load between the studs from overhead. Use a few lag bolts to attach the top plate to the joists overhead and use the powder actuated nails to shoot the bottom plate into the concrete floor, or drill the floor and use Tapcons or lead shields with beefy screws. The forces in this scenario are now different and allow the use of those devices in concrete. If it were me, I would nail up plywood over the studs and use a french cleat system (screwed to the stud centers) to hang the cabinets. Good luck.

[Dave Richards]

Paul, if you're worried about water I would avoid putting holes in the block. If you have access to the joists overhead and the top of the wall you could hang the cabinets from them. I would do something like I show here (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/basementwall.jpg). Bolt the verticals to the joists and bolt a sort of hook to the vertical so it hangs on the wall, too.

Run the French cleats across these and hang the cabinets. Make the verticals long enough to extend at least slightly below the cabinet so the cabinet hangs vertically.

This would give you an airspace between the cabinets and the block wall which would prevent moisture problems. Paint or otherwise seal the hangers before putting them up.

[Bob Michaels]

Dave, that's a pretty good compromise. Also, what drawing software did you use.

[Dave Richards]

Thanks Bob. Drawn with SketchUp.

[glenn bradley]

I'm with Jim. After using cleats here and there as required I am thinking about doing a whole wall and doing a little rearranging.

[Marc Prudhomme]

Went the cheapest way possible because of time and I am not trying to impress anyone in my basement. 3/4 plywood cabinets.Put 7/16 OSB walls all around.Just screw the cabinets to the OSB anywhere you want..

Easy,simple,more time for making stuff

[John Grossi]

Dave, drawing really describes it. Was this the free version of Sketchup or the upgraded paid version? Thanks for the drawing, Paul

[Dave Richards]

Paul, glad that drawing helped. You know that picture is worth a thousand words thing.

I have the Pro version but everything I did could have been done in the free version.

[Hank Knight]

Paul,

I put French cleats around my poured concrete and concrete block shop walls. I fastened them with lead anchors and 3" #14 sheet metal screws. They have held many hundreds of pounds of stuff for 15 years with no problems. I don't trust plastic anchors and I don't use them, but I have absolute confidence in lead anchors. Unfortunately, they are getting hard to find because everybody is using Tapcons. You can order them from MSC Direct or McMaster Carr if you can't find them locally. I have no experience with Tapcons, but I have a project in the works that will give me the opportunity to try them. I hope they work as well as the lead anchors because they are easier to use - just drill and screw in.

Also, I followed a suggestion in an old Wood Magazine: I put up peg board using the French cleat as the top firring strip to attach the peg board to the wall. I built my cabinets with no backs. They hang on the French cleat flush against the peg board, so the peg board becomes the back of the cabinet. You can hang stuff from the peg board inside the cabinets; and if you want to move them, all you do is lift them off the cleat and reposition them.

I don't know what the proper technique is, but, contrary to a post above, I put my anchors in the concrete block, not the mortar. I think the mortar will deteriorate and is not strong enough to hold over a long period of time.

Good luck.

Hank

[Jim Becker]

'Last time I looked, Home Depot had lead anchors...I used them to mount my compressor to the floor.