Noden Adjust-A-Bench Question

[Doug Shepard]

One of the things my GaShop is sorely lacking is a proper bench - unless you count my 2 Workmates or the top of my TS. The biggest problem is I've got nowhere to put one. I've occasionally kicked some ideas around for how to build something that can be broken down for storage when not in use, but nothing along those lines seems very appealing. I got to wondering about the Noden Adjust-A-Bench. I'm thinking I might be able to raise a bench to full height and slide it over other stuff when not in use. That would effectively eliminate the storage space issue. That's if I used the accesory brackets they make that allow for a bench with one rail instead of two.
With exception of one or two small pics on AAB's site all of the example pics I've seen here and elsewhere are two rail benches. FWIW - SMC is a highly linked site on A-A-B's website (http://www.adjustabench.com/articles.asp (http://www.adjustabench.com/articles.asp)). Anyone here built a single rail bench using their system and have any pics? How much stability is sacrificed with the single rail setup?

TIA

[Jim Becker]

I'm not sure what you mean by a "single rail bench", Doug. If you mean the stretchers between the ends, Geoffrey suggested to me that the tension rods between them are really necessary, even if you build a cabinet rather than using the simple oak boards he typically sells with the leg sets. You have more forces in play with this kind of adjustable system and you need to be absolutely sure that you don't set yourself up for easy racking. What's between the legs (as it were...) is critical for that stability, especially if you are a hand too worker. The bench top is not enough to do the job, no matter how heavy and thick it may be.

If I've misinterpreted your question, please clarify.

That all said, I love my Adjust-A-Bench! It was the perfect solution for my needs as I do both hand-tool work and assembly on mine.

[Jeff Wright]

Anyone here built a single rail bench using their system and have any pics? How much stability is sacrificed with the single rail setup?

TIA

Doug,

I have a single rail model and love it. Let me know what angle you want the photos and I will take them for you. I will be installing a face and tail vise on it soon. It is VERY stable, even with the single rail. It also allows me to pull my stool up and work sitting down.

[rick fulton]

Doug,

Thanks for pointing out the links back to SMC. Never expected that. For the record, I am not affiliated in any way with A-A-B.

Concerning stability, a single stretcher could conceivably be better than two. The following crude diagram represents the AAB structure from a top down view; two metal plates (red and blue lines), a cross bar (black) for latching the blue plate as it is lifted, and two wood stretchers.

In the second configuration, the bench is under stress while being pushed (lengthwise) during some form of heavy duty planing, sawing, pounding, or table dancing. The figure is not to scale, but the boards and plate can flex in the directions indicated. This can open a gap (or reduce the tension) on the latch enough to allow the blue plate to drop to floor level. It happened to me. Don’t ask me what I was doing. My girlfriend was just as surprised as I was. Scratch that last sentence.

The simplest solution was to beef up the rails. Alternatively, adding a non-floating tray between the rails can keep the rails from bowing. I did both. But it seems to me that the center stretcher approach could work just as well and save you some leg room for sitting (a better position for table dance viewing). Oops, scratch that last comment.

I’m in the process of changing the top on my bench to fit a new vise. I may try using two single stretchers, one below the other. The first at the normal height, the second would go between the feet.

Whether you go with AAB or not, I'm looking forward to seeing some progress pics on your new bench.

rick

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

unless you count my 2 Workmates or the top of my TS. HA HA HA I have done that for years and years.
Getting a slider very quickly cured that habit.


Noden Adjust-A-Bench. I'm thinking I might be able to raise a bench to full height and slide it over other stuff when not in use.
Some while ago I came across this little gem of a bench on some guys web site. I have pix of the build process but these should pretty much say it all:

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[John Schreiber]

Cliff, Do you have a link to that website? I think about three inches of adjustment would make a big difference to me. Lower for neander work and higher for machine work.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

no link but I can post the images. I ripped all of them thinking I might want to emulate this guy's idea someday.
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That's it. I don't recall any verbiage on the web site but the guy took some really nice photos of the process.
I am quite sure this is original work. He put it in a public space so I guess he must have intended for others to benefit.

He must have had a surplus of bloodwood cause he even made a XCI of the stuff.

[Doug Shepard]

I'm not sure what you mean by a "single rail bench", Doug. If you mean the stretchers between the ends, Geoffrey suggested to me that the tension rods between them are really necessary, even if you build a cabinet rather than using the simple oak boards he typically sells with the leg sets. You have more forces in play with this kind of adjustable system and you need to be absolutely sure that you don't set yourself up for easy racking. What's between the legs (as it were...) is critical for that stability, especially if you are a hand too worker. The bench top is not enough to do the job, no matter how heavy and thick it may be.
If I've misinterpreted your question, please clarify.
...


Jim
AAB has one pic on the bottom of this page that's what I'm loosely calling a single rail bench. I cant really tell though if that rail is in the center of the table (which doesn't really help me) or on one side of the bench.
http://www.adjustabench.com/inaction.asp
They have pics of the brackets on the price list page
http://www.adjustabench.com/prices_legs.asp



Doug,
I have a single rail model and love it. Let me know what angle you want the photos and I will take them for you. I will be installing a face and tail vise on it soon. It is VERY stable, even with the single rail. It also allows me to pull my stool up and work sitting down.

Jeff
Did you use the AAB brackets or come up with your own design? Is the rail in the center or towards the back? Either way, How about starting a progress pics thread before, during, and after the vise installs? I'm sure I wouldn't be the only interested party.


...
I’m in the process of changing the top on my bench to fit a new vise. I may try using two single stretchers, one below the other. The first at the normal height, the second would go between the feet.
Whether you go with AAB or not, I'm looking forward to seeing some progress pics on your new bench.


Rick
I hadnt thought about 2 rails, both on one side. That would work for me too. I just wasn't sure how flexible the AAB setup was as to how & where the rails could be attached. Progress pics will be a long time coming though. I still have a DC installation to complete first, but have been thinking about trying to start on a bench after that's done.

Cliff
I love the pics of the homebrew method, but the floor level framing unfortunately make that one not work very well for me (cant roll anything underneath it very well).

Thanks y'all

[Barry A. Johnson]

The person that built that assembly table goes by Vanguard over on woodnet, you can read all the details about it on his page here. (http://www.just4fun.org/woodworking/projects/assembly_table/index.htm)

Another one to look at is this motorized one. (http://www.jsrwoodworking.com/assemblytable.htm)Very slick...

[Jim Becker]

Doug, here's the description on the site for the one-rail brackets:

"One Rail Brackets are constructed of heavy-duty steel and eliminate one bench rail for seated work such as carving or allow for extra storage space beneath your Adjust-A-Bench."

I'd be inclined to check with Geoffery about his thoughts on this for a heavily used bench. He was pretty adamate with Robert Tarr and I when we visited his shop last year to pick up Roberts "special" Orange Adjust-a-Bench legs that the tension rods shouldn't be disregarded even if a cabinet is built. Both the picture on the site and the above text refer to "seated work", although the text also talks about storage.

[Doug Shepard]

Well good news. I did call AAB and they pointed me to a better pic of the single rail setup on this page http://www.adjustabench.com/prices_cb.asp
It's on their complete table systems price list page which I hadn't been looking at, as I thought if this panned out I'd build the top myself. If you enlarge the pic of the single rail table all becomes much clearer. This is beginning to look pretty good for my constricted space problem. Now I need to do some measuring to see if the vertical max height works out for sliding stuff underneath but the biggest question I had has been solved. Apparently they did experiment for a while with a T-bracket and a center mounted single rail, but ditched it for the same reasons I was concerned with - less open space underneath. I think if the height specs work out, it's tiime to buy the Workbench Book and start thinking about a top, vises, tray (or not), etc. I can plan some of that out while I'm waiting for the GaShop to warm back up a bit so I can get the DC installation wrapped up.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The person that built that assembly table goes by Vanguard over on woodnet, you can read all the details about it on his page here. (http://www.just4fun.org/woodworking/projects/assembly_table/index.htm)

Another one to look at is this motorized one. (http://www.jsrwoodworking.com/assemblytable.htm)Very slick...

Thaks for that. I felt poorly about not being able to give the guy proper credit.

[Jeff Wright]

Jeff
Did you use the AAB brackets or come up with your own design? Is the rail in the center or towards the back? Either way, How about starting a progress pics thread before, during, and after the vise installs? I'm sure I wouldn't be the only interested party.


I used the stock AAB bracket. Also ordered the 30" wide by 72" maple top and it is VERY heavy. Whatever you modify, you don't want it to fail and fall on you. Once I installed the legs and castors I had to use a come along/winch system attached to the ceiling to upright the assembled bench it was so heavy. Once I begin the vise installs I will post some pics.

[Rob Blaustein]

I just picked up a demo model from Geoffrey at the recent Woodworks show in W. Springfield, MA--clearly the high point of the show (which was otherwise somewhat disappointing). I got a 24" x 72" top with the castor package since my plan is to have the bench also serve as an outfield table for my TS. I've used the bench a bit and really like it, but I have no basis for comparison since it is my first bench. Mine has double rails. At some point I'd like to build some storage cabinets for underneath the bench but I suspect that it will be a while until I get to it. Geoffrey does sell them, but the problem is that he's been so busy with the bench aspect of things he hasn't really had time to generate some stock pieces--but I think he's working on it. He did suggest that if I plan to build one, I incorporate those support rods into the design (as Jim B. mentioned earlier). He's a really nice guy, as is his wife.

Some advantages to getting a demo (complete bench) from him at a show:
-Big savings on shipping ($250, I think).
-Extra 10% off.
-Extra $50 off.
-It's already assembled. This is great if you have a big enough vehicle. I went with a friend who has a Ford Explorer and it fit with no problem. The two of us were able to carry it out ourselves.
-If the show is a bust, at least it wasn't a complete waste of time.

Can you make your own version? Sure--but there's that whole time/money equation--buy, and spend time building other things vs build your own and maybe learn new techniques, and maybe save money, and maybe enjoy the process. I did think about making my own top but did a quick calculation and realized that I wouldn't save much money, and I wanted a bench now.

[Doug Shepard]

... I did think about making my own top but did a quick calculation and realized that I wouldn't save much money, and I wanted a bench now.

I hear you about wanting one NOW! I tallied up the costs including shipping on AABs site last night. The complete single rail table (72x24) with casters, vises, dog holes, comes to $1630. Not cheap, but not a deal breaker either. The cost for just the leg set, casters, and single-rail brackets is $800. So, can I build a top and buy vises for $830 or less ??Probably, but then there's the time factor. If I'm going to spend this kind of money for a bench though, I think I'd like the more traditional wooden style vises where they're integral to the table rather than the bolt on Jorgensen type that AAB has. I'm not sure if that's something that can be grafted onto their tops or not but I think that means I'd still want to make my own top? I dunno. I'm just getting into investigating all this.

[Rob Blaustein]

Doug,
I ran through the numbers just as you did--what really saved me a lot was picking it up. If I were ordering one and had to put it together myself, I'd probably just buy the legs/casters etc and get the top elsewhere and install your own vises and make your own dog holes. In fact, I thought there was free shipping for a while on the legs/casters and that it was the top that was expensive to ship. You can get a reasonable maple top from Grizzly or other places that specialize in this (I think lumberliquidators had very reasonable prices for butcher-block material). If the adjustability is what you want, then that might be a way to go. I think you can get the benefits of the various more traditional bench tops and still have the mobility and height adjustability.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Rob