Trexx wood alternative....

[chris fox]

One of my long time clients/friends asked me to build a Japanese soaking tub deck using Trexx wood. They found out that I was doing more WW'ing thinking I would be interested in this small project for them.
I havent even touched this stuff before, has anyone used this? Tips tricks,etc.? I believe their heart is set on this material for its durability for our AZ sun and water use.


thanks,

Chris

[Lee Schierer]

I've used the Veranda brand composite materials to build the front deck on my house. http://home.earthlink.net/~us71na/deck1.jpg You need to insure the supports are no more than 12" apart. Any more than that can lead to a springy surface or board failure when some one of above average weight steps on it. The composites do not have the strength of real wood so the spans have to be less. Do not use the composites for structural supports.

I would suggest using hidden fasteners. They make one the looks like a biscuit with a leg out the bottom. You'll need a biscuit jointer, but the appearance of a fastener free surface is worth it. I used a product called Tiger Claws, which is also a hidden fastener system, and would not recommend them, they are quite labor intensive. They have done a great job holding the deck down, but the installation was not as easy as they show it in the instructions.

You can cut the material with woodworking tools and can even use your router on it. I did notice plastic residue on the side of the blade on my skill saw when I was done. I cut pieces with my jig saw and table saw with no problems.

[Jeffrey Fusaro]

You need to insure the supports are no more than 12" apart. Any more than that can lead to a springy surface or board failure when some one of above average weight steps on it. The composites do not have the strength of real wood so the spans have to be less. Do not use the composites for structural supports.


that's the heart of it....

i built a 12' x 25' deck for our home using "choice deck" brand composite lumber. similar to trexx and others. i used 2 x 10's on 12" centers for the structure. deck planks were run on a diagonal. rather time consuming, but the end result was nice.

check with the manufacturer's website for whatever product you end up using. they can advise about any special span requirements or attachment recommendations.

i would never build any deck using treated lumber, again.

the composites don't give off splinters - a huge benefit if little ones will be running around barefoot.;)

the decking that i used had a nice texture. it never got slippery - even when wet. a good thing around a hot tub. it never got too hot, even in direct afternoon sun.

no chemicals to leach out and get absorbed into your skin while working with, or walking on the surface.

and, no cracking, splitting warping, cupping or shrinkning. no need to butt boards side-by-side when installing, then waiting for them to shrink and make a gap of unknown dimensions. i used a shim to keep plank spacing consistent.

i attached mine with stainless steel square drive screws. i made a template to keep the screws evenly spaced (i know - it's an anal thing...)

soap and water are all that are needed to clean the surface, if needed.

[chris fox]

thanks guys.
My concern now is building it. I am not licensed or anything just a hobbiest WW'er. Do you need a permit for something like this?
Even though their friends, one of their freinds could slip due to not doing something right when building it. Maybe I am over thinking this.
I feel I am capable to build something like this with research and of course input form this forums and others.

[Curt Harms]

thanks guys.
My concern now is building it. I am not licensed or anything just a hobbiest WW'er. Do you need a permit for something like this?..........

It depends on the municipality. I did have to get a permit to build our deck. The upside to getting a permit and inspection is it may relieve some of the liability concerns.

Curt

[Michael Morgan]

Chris, In between my real job, sawing lumber, little excavating and some other things I usually build 3 or 4 decks each summer. Mostly just by word of mouth I get the jobs. The last two were constructed using trex. It's very nice and very pricey. I really like the decking boards but I don't like the railing system. Trex seems to be a little better and more ridgid than the other brands. 16" centers works fine and make sure you use trap ease screws, they have the course thread on the bottom of the screw and a real fine thread at the top. No pre drilling except on the ends. The last one I did was two levels 16' x 36' and 12' x 24' around 18K just for materials:eek:

[Norm St.Onge]

12" O.C. is a must or the Trex will develop a sag over time. Also, it's not immune to mold, staining (red wine will do a number on it), and don't use a red chalk line on it- that will stain too, it will flake apart if a pressure washer and/or chemicals are used on it...if the HO is going to clean it - or the hot tub that's sitting on it - I would avoid bleach, chlorine, etc.

It's nice stuff but it's not the end all, be all. It has limitations like all materials. There's a ton of install & care info on the Trex website, it's worth the download and spending the time to understand it. I would have the HO read the care instructions and make sure they want to abide by the rules before spending the buck$ on it.

-Norm

[Jim Becker]

Another concern with the composites, especially in AZ sun...they get hot. Really hot. Burn your feet hot. ;)

[David G Baker]

If I remember correctly, Trex is only guaranteed for 10 years. I built a deck out of a heavy plastic/fiberglass material that has a 50 year guarantee. It is heavy, expensive, can be installed on 16 inch centers, and extremely hot to walk on in the summer in California.
David B

[Jeffrey Fusaro]

thanks guys.
My concern now is building it. I am not licensed or anything just a hobbiest WW'er. Do you need a permit for something like this?
Even though their friends, one of their freinds could slip due to not doing something right when building it. Maybe I am over thinking this.
I feel I am capable to build something like this with research and of course input form this forums and others.

chris--

a building permit is a good idea. it will keep everyone out of trouble, in the long run.

i would think that it is the responsibility of the homeowner to source the permit, in this case.

i'm no lawyer, but i doubt that a building permit is any protection against liability.

on the liability end...

are you being paid for the work?

are you doing all of the work out of the goodness of your heart?

or, are you JUST HELPING the homeowner build the deck?

there may be differing levels of liability, depending on how the agreements between you and your friend are understood. you may want to check with someone who really knows the answers... :cool:

[Justin McCurdy]

Trex has upped their gaurantee to 30 years as of last year, I think. I have built 2 decks and a playset out of it and it is so much nicer to work with than treated wood. Here is what I suggest:

1. Inquire if you need permits for the project. Some places require nothing, I on the other hand needed two, 1 land use permit and 1 permit based upon what I wanted to build.

2. Find a lumber yard that will allow you to return any excess wood you do not use, this stuff is not cheap.

3. If you are worried about sagging, either keep joist spacing to 12" with the 5/4 boards or go to the Trex 2" board and keep spacing at 16-20". I used 2" boards for everything that I have done thus far except trim and it is really sturdy.

4. The board need to be gapped side to side at 1/4" and end to end at 3/8". If you use a lumber yard that supplies contractors, they can get you gapping tools that are quite convenient. They are 2 sided(1/4 and 3/8 gaps) and will sit on the boards you are trying to screw in.

5. For cleaning, use Olympic deck cleaner. It is real cheap and will do wonders on even mold.

6. Fasteners: I used grk's phoenix fasteners without predrilling. This will save you a ton of time. It is a thin T15 drive fastener that is reverse threaded at the top to suck down the composite mushroom made by the screw entry. I had better luck with the treated screws as opposed to the stainless steel. They are cheaper and I had less screws/bits break on me. The phoenix line almost disappears once screwed in which makes the deck look better.

7. Use only white chalk when setting up your cuts. Every other color will stain the wood.

8. The Trex will fade over the first year, so don't be too alarmed if the deck looks "messed up" when you finish. Time will heal all wounds.

9. I would use a plugged screw gun for the decking screws, I found cordless drills snapped a lot of screws.

10. You can perform woodworking operations such as routing and lapping with the Trex so it will look really cool because of the uniformity of the material.

Good Luck,
Justin

[chris fox]

Thanks for all the good points. Heres alittle more on the people I am building it for. They just bought this 3 million home so money is not an issue just sending work to me since they found out I have spendng more time WW'ing as a hobby. I have designed and built archtectrual like displays for their office showcasing their customers for the past 5-6 years. We have a great work-for-friend relationship.
Their landscape designer has already sold them on the Trexx lumber, not sure if they bought it or not. To be honest I dont think I would suggest other types of wood at this point anyway. The deck is small about 10' square to hold a custom Japanese soaking tub in a zen garden.
As far as permits, I will inquire through them and have them get it. So its one of those where your helping out the home owner. The homeowner will probably be skiing or something so it would be most of me and a helper/ friend. But I would be getting paid(probably pretty well).
I told them off the bat that if the design has stairs and other elevated areas I would turn it down just because of my experience and liability. They expect high end. If its a minimalist flat deck the nI would be interested in it.
I plan to meet with them on Thursday to see the plans that the landscape designer has created.

Chris

[David G Baker]

One of my long time clients/friends asked me to build a Japanese soaking tub deck using Trexx wood. They found out that I was doing more WW'ing thinking I would be interested in this small project for them.
I havent even touched this stuff before, has anyone used this? Tips tricks,etc.? I believe their heart is set on this material for its durability for our AZ sun and water use.


thanks,

Chris
Chris,
The product I used for my California deck was Trimax. 50 year warranty, great to work with, as strong as wood (or stronger), never needs paint or stain, comes in eight colors that won't fade, will not warp.expensive, and very hot in the bright sun of California. It is used for docks because it will not rot or decay. I have never been happier with any other decking material. It is probably not available locally, so if interested check on line for a supplier.
David B

[Dave Fifield]

Around here, Brazilian Ipe decking is cheaper than Trex.

My son's Scout troop built some seating at a school using Trex once, 12" centers, good quality decking screws and all. After 5 years, the thing was all buckled and bent up due to the sun. The school called us up to "please come and remove it". I still have the boards somewhere in my back yard. You want them?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Around here, Brazilian Ipe decking is cheaper than Trex.

My son's Scout troop built some seating at a school using Trex once, 12" centers, good quality decking screws and all. After 5 years, the thing was all buckled and bent up due to the sun. The school called us up to "please come and remove it". I still have the boards somewhere in my back yard. You want them?

Hiya; new member here.

I see that you talk a lot about the sun's affect on Trex, and alltho we DO have sun in Norway too :eek: I wonder if anyone has any idea how it reacts to cold (around 0F or so) and snow?

Thanks in advance for any and all replies:)

[Norm St.Onge]

I wonder if anyone has any idea how it reacts to cold (around 0F or so) and snow?

I'm in the ski country of southern Vermont and we use Trex on alot of decks...no problems in winter. It holds up well, easy to shovel the snow off...if you're installing it in colder weather there are different gaping requirements than in the warmer temps...pay attention to them.

-Norm

[Jeff Heil]

If you build the deck out of a composite, consider doing the railings out of cedar or redwood. (opaque stain holds about about 2-3 seasons, clear needs annual upkeep to stay looking new. I find most composite railing systems sag with time and may need reinforcing with real lumber and are less than pleasing to the eye. Most building code requires railings hold 200lbs of force. Some composite systems barely meet that standard. Decks can be complicated, make sure any deck you build will hold the weight of all that water in the soaking tub.

[Bjorn Andersen]

I'm in the ski country of southern Vermont and we use Trex on alot of decks...no problems in winter. It holds up well, easy to shovel the snow off...if you're installing it in colder weather there are different gaping requirements than in the warmer temps...pay attention to them.

-Norm

Great - Thanks, Norm. Couldn't find much info on it on the net regarding low temps and how it handled snow.
We (my better half and myself), are still ehh.. debating :rolleyes: on whether we should build of the entire decking of wood/trex or slates. I think slates are nice to look at (example: http://www.saethre-sten.no/uutendors/53.jpg) http://www.saethre-sten.no/uutendors/Terr-08.jpg , but they are hot to walk on in summer, and the part of the garden where the deck will be has about 15-16 hours of sun every day in the summer. I was also fascinated that trex is so easily bent into shapes. That makes it so much less difficult to follow the shapes of an oval or kidneyshaped pool, which we also are planning to build this spring.

Oh well - we'll see. But thanks again for answering my concerns; that gave me some more ammo in my fight to not have slates in the garden!! *grins*

[Russ Filtz]

Based on the specs, I would say the Trimax would be a better product than the Trex (no affiliation!). Trimax is a composite of HDPE and fiberglass. Trex is recycled wood and plastic bags (probably HDPE). The small chunks of woods cannot impart the same strength as fiberglass. The wood is pretty much there as a "filler" it seems. Don't know the costs, but i would bet the Trimax is even more expensive!

[Bjorn Andersen]

Based on the specs, I would say the Trimax would be a better product than the Trex (no affiliation!). Trimax is a composite of HDPE and fiberglass. Trex is recycled wood and plastic bags (probably HDPE). The small chunks of woods cannot impart the same strength as fiberglass. The wood is pretty much there as a "filler" it seems. Don't know the costs, but i would bet the Trimax is even more expensive!

You have a link for trimax? Cant seem to find it online:)

That said; trex.com that trex gives you a 25 yrs warranty; if the product is no good, wont that be a real expensive deal for the company? :D

[David G Baker]

You have a link for trimax? Cant seem to find it online:)

That said; trex.com that trex gives you a 25 yrs warranty; if the product is no good, wont that be a real expensive deal for the company? :D
Bjorn,
Go to Google and type in Conrad Forest Products. They have the all the information you could ever need on TriMax. I really loved the product. It was carried locally in Northern California but the only way I can get it in Mid Michigan where I now live is to have it shipped to me. I have not done that yet so I don't know what the total cost will be. If you are interested, contact the Conrad folks and they will send you a quote by e-mail.
I have known folks that have used Trex and they have been very happy with it.
David B

[Bjorn Andersen]

Bjorn,
Go to Google and type in Conrad Forest Products. They have the all the information you could ever need on TriMax. I really loved the product. It was carried locally in Northern California but the only way I can get it in Mid Michigan where I now live is to have it shipped to me. I have not done that yet so I don't know what the total cost will be. If you are interested, contact the Conrad folks and they will send you a quote by e-mail.
I have known folks that have used Trex and they have been very happy with it.
David B

Thanks, will do.:cool:
I need to find out if there are any dealers that has it in Norway; having it shipped from California to me would be a VERY costly project :D

[Russ Filtz]

Here ya go! Limited LIFETIME warranty.

http://www.trimaxbp.com/