Plugin that does what photograv does

[Matthew Sullivan]

Photograv, I know it works well, but the price is quite rediculous as has been discussed in this forum before. Is there no way to get close to photograv's results in corel or photoshop? A plug in that is available or can be designed. I would be more than willing to find and pay somebody to develop a plugin for photoshop that will do what photograv does. I mean, it gets the job done, but it's definetly not $400.00 asthetically pleasing ( the gui that is haha ) Anyway, just a thought. Then this plugin could be available MUCH cheaper if not free? Has anyone else thought of this?

Thanks for listening to my rant creekers

[Luke Phillips]

Photobrasive has a plug-in for Corel called half-wiz (www.halfwiz.com (http://www.halfwiz.com)) for $49.00. I use photograve but ordered this plug-in to see what it can offer. I'll post my thoughts after I've had time to try it out.

[Bill Cunningham]

I have downloaded and tried just about every 'try before you buy' dithering plug in I could find.. If it works in photoshop, it will also generally work in photopaint.. I have not bought any, but I 'did' buy photograv.. Yes!! The GUI is a joke, and so early 90's in design.. But the software works. Granted, if your using it for 'hobby' work, it's expensive. Mine paid for itself in the first few days I had it, and now everything it processes is gravey... The scuttlebut is, that photograv is going to be released in a badly needed upgrade this year. I for one, think that if you have bought a copy in the last year or so, you SHOULD get the upgrade for free. After all, it's been needed for a long long time, and it's WAY over due by todays software standards.. If I had known a upgrade was only months away, I would have waited before buying. Those that bought recently, are going to feel slightly ripped off if they get no consideration on the upgrade..:(

[Gary Hair]

Photograv, I know it works well, but the price is quite rediculous as has been discussed in this forum before. Is there no way to get close to photograv's results in corel or photoshop? A plug in that is available or can be designed. I would be more than willing to find and pay somebody to develop a plugin for photoshop that will do what photograv does. I mean, it gets the job done, but it's definetly not $400.00 asthetically pleasing ( the gui that is haha ) Anyway, just a thought. Then this plugin could be available MUCH cheaper if not free? Has anyone else thought of this?

Thanks for listening to my rant creekers

A programmer capable of creating such a plugin would probably command $200, or more, per hour to create the plugin for you. Trust me, it would take you several thousand dollars to give you the functionality you have in photograv for $400.

If you did find someone who could/would create it why do you think they should give it away free? If you spent any time trying to do yourself what photograv does you would see the value. It would only take about two photos to pay for photograv if you have any value of your time at all.

I have programmed for years and I don't think most people understand what it takes to do something you consider simple.

Gary

[Dave Jones]

Photoshop can get you diffusion dithered images that are fairly good, and with a bit of work can come close to Photograv. But there is more control over the process with Photograv. Half of the steps in Photograve are simply optimizing levels and running filters, which Photoshop or any good paint program can do. But most paint programs have no specific controls at the point of conversion to dither, while Photograv does.

So, yes you can get close with PhotoShop or PhotoPaint, and certainly get better than the default setttings in Photograv. But if you use the interactive adjustments in Photograv you can go further than is actually possible in the paint programs. You can also do it faster in Photograv.

If you are doing it for profit, $400 is expensive, but compared to spending $10k-30k for a laser, it's not that bad. If you're doing it for fun, then it's pretty expensive.

And I agree with Gary. I have done programming for a long time and would charge somewhere in the range of $20-$25k to write a Photoshop plugin that just has the dither conversion portion with more controls. Not everything that is in Photograv. (and I'm too busy to write it)

[Brent Vander Weil]

Well I just got nudged out of the world of corporate employment and my wife and I are giving serious consideration to my moving on this laser thing full time... (Kinda feel like the baby bird here... LOL) Even after I have been on the site for awhile and read every post about it I want PhotoGrav, but I think I am going to hang out a while to see when/if the upgrade comes into affect... I would hate to buy now and find out they decided to leave me out in the cold and have to pay again... even if I do decide to go into business full time... money is money :-)

[Shane Silcox]

I just purchased it. I actually sent a message to the developers, as I had heard the rumors of the upgrade and had the same concern (didnt want to purchase it, then get stuck with an outdated version a month later). The developer said they are in fact coming out with an upgrade, however he did not have any timeframe, and suggested that I not wait. He did say that I could upgrade when the new version came out, for a small fee (again, he didn't say how much). FWIW.

-Shane

[Rodne Gold]

I wonder what the upgrade will contain , I don't have much of a wishlist apart from some more Parameter files , and even that is academic cos I use the one paramter file for everything anyway (the cherry wood one).
A resizing routine after the file has been run might be nice?
What do other ppl want in an upgraded version?

[Joe Pelonio]

I have used Corel Photopaint for years but also have Freehand and Photoshop. Between them it may take bit longer than photograv but not worth the additional expense for me, especially since photo engraving is a small percentage of my laser work. Not having used it, from what I have heard, it would be a good investment if you do a lot of work with photos.

[Matthew Sullivan]

Thanks for your responses. I have also worked as a programmer, the language of choice, java. By the prices that have been thrown out here it seems as though I am in the wrong business haha. I think I was getting the low end of that stick. However, you can make something very similiar to a plug-in in photoshop using an action, where as no programming experience is required. And now that photoshop can accept javascript, which for ease of use is second only to HTML, I can't see somebody charging $200.00 where I'm from per hour for javascript. Or to create an advanced custom action. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it would be easy. I'd much rather somebody that has experience in it to do it professionally and get a great end product vs me learn javascript again and attempt to hack something together. And if it gave me photoshop equivalent results, I wouldn't mind putting out a few thousand $. As I'm sure I would be able to provide it at the consumer level at a significant discount to photograv. Mind you, this is all in theory people, just I wish, that's all.

Thanks again :D

[Dave Jones]

A Photoshop action would not be enough. A true plugin with new code would be needed. An action simply automates the pushing of buttons and setting of values. It can't add the new pixel manipulations that don't exist within the program. What would be needed is a plugin that adds a new dithering algorythm with additional features and adjustments.

Sure, an action could simplify the steps to get a crude conversion, which would help people that have Photoshop but aren't very good with it. But to add the missing features would require a real plugin with a fair amount of complex math. Even the current built in bitmap dithering conversion in Photoshop has a bug in it which creates a "ridge" artifact in the dithering on the top and left of an image as it transitions from black to shade of gray 1.

[Rodne Gold]

Here's how to do it In photoshop

1) Convert to 8 bit greyscale

2) Resize the image to the size its gonna get engraved using 150-300 dpi (150 for less detail)

3) Bump up contrast and brightness about +25 in
both cases - you dont want the pic to be insipid areas of medium grey.

4) Heres the VITAL part - use unsharp mask at 500% and a radius of 3-5 pixels - threshold 0 - this will exaggerate edges radically , but thats what you need. In fact you can do this and then STILL add another unsharp mask at 150 % , 1pixel and 0 threshold AFTER the 1st unsharp if you want even more edge detection

5) Convert to a bitmap using 125-150ppi and a diffusion pattern.

5) laser.

that will give you essentially similar or better results.

[Luke Phillips]

Photobrasive has a plug-in for Corel called half-wiz (www.halfwiz.com (http://www.halfwiz.com)) for $49.00. I use photograve but ordered this plug-in to see what it can offer. I'll post my thoughts after I've had time to try it out.

Well, so far I like what I see with the results on screen - tomorrow will do a engraving comparison between the two processes. BTW Half-wiz is a macro.:rolleyes:

[james finley]

can anyone explain part 4 and 5 cuz im an newbie just needin clear direction with photoshop cuz i can't afford photograv just at the moment
many thanks

[Rodne Gold]

Unsharp mask is under "filters" and in the "sharpen" section. It will allow you to input the settings.
The Convert to bitmap thing is under "image" then "mode" and select bitmap.
It will also allow you to input the settings.

[Bruce Volden]

Myself, as an "old timer", could care less about P-grav. I have always used P-paint and have been very satisfied with the results. Like Rodne's post in his P-paint steps, well that takes all of 1 minute, so what would I gain spending $400 more buck for P-grav?? I know time is money but sheeehs:confused:


Bruce

[Shane Turner]

Here's a visual for you

To find unsharp mask:
74064

And use these settings:
74065

Then you want to convert to black/white dither parrtern
Find that here:
74066

Using somethign similar to these settings:
74067

[Ed Newbold]

Well, so far I like what I see with the results on screen - tomorrow will do a engraving comparison between the two processes. BTW Half-wiz is a macro.:rolleyes:Hey, Luke...

Did you ever do that comparison? :rolleyes: We're awaiting your results and comments before shooting the $49 on it.

Thanks a million,

[David Hirschfield]

can anyone explain part 4 and 5 cuz im an newbie just needin clear direction with photoshop cuz i can't afford photograv just at the moment
many thanks

4. Unsharpen Mask is a Photoshop filter, found in the Filters menu. If you apply the filter it gives you 3 sliders to adjust the variables. You can apply it more than once by simply applying the filter again and changing the sliders and pressing OK.

5. The final step is to convert it to a 2 bit .bmp or bitmap. After applying the filter, choose Image/Mode and select Bitmap. You can then enter a Resolution in Pixels/inch to be applied to the image. It also allows you to select the Method, which represents a screen pattern. Select Diffusion Dither.

Just tried it to convert a photo as a test and it looks pretty good. Haven't engraved it but looks like there is a lot of latitude to adjust if needed.

[Larry Bratton]

Here's how to do it In photoshop

1) Convert to 8 bit greyscale

2) Resize the image to the size its gonna get engraved using 150-300 dpi (150 for less detail)

3) Bump up contrast and brightness about +25 in
both cases - you dont want the pic to be insipid areas of medium grey.

4) Heres the VITAL part - use unsharp mask at 500% and a radius of 3-5 pixels - threshold 0 - this will exaggerate edges radically , but thats what you need. In fact you can do this and then STILL add another unsharp mask at 150 % , 1pixel and 0 threshold AFTER the 1st unsharp if you want even more edge detection

5) Convert to a bitmap using 125-150ppi and a diffusion pattern.

5) laser.

that will give you essentially similar or better results.
Another little trick you might try also is, if you have an RGB color image before you convert it to greyscale, use the channel mixer under Image Adjustment. Click on Monochrome and adjust the sliders until you get a pleasinging good contrast in the black and white image. Then convert to Greyscale. Keeps that GS conversion from looking so washed out as they tend to do.

[Tom Henry]

What resolution can you engrave at? I don't know anything about engraving but have 11 years experience with Photoshop. I can help you out if I know a little more about how it works.

I think I know what you can do but I think the res will be to high.

[Darren Null]

What resolution can you engrave at?
Depends on the machine, and the material you're engraving. My machine only does discrete dots up to 300 dpi. Over that and it's just overburning the same areas...which is fine for some effects but not what you need for quality photo-type imagery. For low-res surfaces, like glass and stones from the beach etc. I drop the input graphic to 150 dpi and burn at 300 dpi, which works for me. Your mileage may vary.

[Tom Henry]

Has anyone tried first grayscale, then bitmap halftone screen at 1200dpi with a 175 linescreen at 45 degrees?

[Joni Campbell]

Ummm I believe that corel 12 has these same settings. I am playing with it now, I just cannot find a diffusion pattern as stated for #5 ...I am new, so I may be misunderstanding the diffusion part. can some send me a photo that is done and readied to be lasered so I can see what we are doing here? I believe I am on the right track...for now anyways till I can afford photograv.

[Larry Bratton]

I have downloaded and tried just about every 'try before you buy' dithering plug in I could find.. If it works in photoshop, it will also generally work in photopaint.. I have not bought any, but I 'did' buy photograv.. Yes!! The GUI is a joke, and so early 90's in design.. But the software works. Granted, if your using it for 'hobby' work, it's expensive. Mine paid for itself in the first few days I had it, and now everything it processes is gravey... The scuttlebut is, that photograv is going to be released in a badly needed upgrade this year. I for one, think that if you have bought a copy in the last year or so, you SHOULD get the upgrade for free. After all, it's been needed for a long long time, and it's WAY over due by todays software standards.. If I had known a upgrade was only months away, I would have waited before buying. Those that bought recently, are going to feel slightly ripped off if they get no consideration on the upgrade..:(
I've had Photograv Version 3 for about a month now. GUI is nicely improved. I engraved some logos on some pen boxes today that had been processed with it, it turned out very nice. The upgrade was prorated based on when you bought the old version, mine was $150 or so. Someone here upgraded for $10 since they had purchased the old version a month or so ago.

[James Jaragosky]

Photograv, I know it works well, but the price is quite rediculous as has been discussed in this forum before. Is there no way to get close to photograv's results in corel or photoshop? A plug in that is available or can be designed. I would be more than willing to find and pay somebody to develop a plugin for photoshop that will do what photograv does. I mean, it gets the job done, but it's definetly not $400.00 asthetically pleasing ( the gui that is haha ) Anyway, just a thought. Then this plugin could be available MUCH cheaper if not free? Has anyone else thought of this?

Thanks for listening to my rant creekers

I am sure that you can do manually with Photoshop or some other program or maybe a combination of a couple of programs what photograV does, but for a newbie/ slow learner/ lazy person / too busy business owner or anyone else in a hurry, photograV works well. In fact it took the learning curve way down for me, in fact my first photograV processed photo was such a big hit I am currently swamped with photo work, (got a guy with a raccoon on his shoulder etching right now.) so if you are struggling with the traditional way to process photos for your laser and are wondering if photograV is worth the money, My vote would be yes it is. It has already paid for its self for me.
Jim J.

[Ed Lang]

Luke,

Any further word on how you like the $49 plugin vs PhotograV?

[Tim Bateson]

Photograv (3.0) is good but way over-rated and way over priced for a bad GUI product - I've been in IT for 20+ years and haven't seen this type of GUI program in over 10 years. I use Vista (not by choice) and Photograv does NOT work correctly with it. It doesn't produce a true image - the saved file is different then the one displayed within Photograv. When exiting the program gets stuck in memory and has to be killed through Task Manager. I find very little difference between engraving a high quality gray scale photo then messing with Photograv. BTW - I did start with 2.11 and had asked for my money back when 3.0 came out. It's almost a real product, but am still waiting for a fully functional Photograv product.

[Jay Boesman]

Thank you for this...



Here's how to do it In photoshop

1) Convert to 8 bit greyscale

2) Resize the image to the size its gonna get engraved using 150-300 dpi (150 for less detail)

3) Bump up contrast and brightness about +25 in
both cases - you dont want the pic to be insipid areas of medium grey.

4) Heres the VITAL part - use unsharp mask at 500% and a radius of 3-5 pixels - threshold 0 - this will exaggerate edges radically , but thats what you need. In fact you can do this and then STILL add another unsharp mask at 150 % , 1pixel and 0 threshold AFTER the 1st unsharp if you want even more edge detection

5) Convert to a bitmap using 125-150ppi and a diffusion pattern.

5) laser.

that will give you essentially similar or better results.



This is fantastic on wood...I just unpackaged my 45w Epilog Mini 24, busted out Photoshop 6 (I'm cheap) and BAM!!!! ...Work of art...After figuring out the laser. Beautiful! I've lasered every piece of wood in sight. It produces a better result than most of the examples the reps sent me. I'll post a pic an the settings soon.

[Luke Phillips]

Luke,

Any further word on how you like the $49 plugin vs PhotograV?

Ed - I'll post photos of comparisons in couple of days. Jury still out on Half-Wiz, seems to work okay by itself but better when used with pre-prep such as photoshop or photopaint.