Craftsman Tablesaw???

[Mike Cutler]

Folks.
I have run across a deal on a "Craftsman Tablesaw". However it isn't anything like any Craftsman Tablesaw I've ever seen.
It is a 12", 5 hp Cabinetsaw, a true cabinetsaw and not a hybrid. The top is 27"x 52" and completely cast iron. The weight is 750 lbs. It has a 5/8", 3/4" and 1"( I think) interchangable arbor shafts.
The internal trunnions are huge and there are 3 belts that go from the motor to the arbor shaft.
According to the owner. He believes that the saw was made by Sunhill for Sears. It was purchased in the late 80's for $2200.00. It was part of their "Industrial Line".
I know next to nothing about Sunhill, and have always been a little suspect of Sears. Any info would be appreciated.

[Mike Shoemaker]

Dunno, I did a quick search in the forums at OWWM. There were a couple of mentions. There is a SunHill machine in Google. Been in business since the 70s. Import from Taiwan, Sorry, Hope this gets you started. Mike

[scott spencer]

Sunhill is quite well respected, but I know nothing about that saw. Sunhill is a direct importer much like Grizzly on a slightly smaller scale. What's he asking for it?

http://sunhillmachinery.com/

[Mike Cutler]

Sunhill is quite well respected, but I know nothing about that saw. Sunhill is a direct importer much like Grizzly on a slightly smaller scale. What's he asking for it?

http://sunhillmachinery.com/

He say's he wants about a $1K, with an assortment of blades and such. What's throwing me is the size of this saw. This is a big saw. I've never seen anything like it in Sears. he said it was a special order item at the time.

Closest thing I've found is a 22802, and a 22854 model saw.

[glenn bradley]

"I've never seen anything like it in Sears"

I don't think you'll see the industrial line of tools next to the socket set Johnny wants for his birthday ;-) When taking the next step on my TS selection I was put off by the cost of 12" blades and the fact that a wimp like me doesn't need the capacity. This doesn't mean you don't need a 12", just that I don't.

I'd do some research to see if you can find out who makes the saw and go on that to some extent. There is some (lower priced) C-man junk but their older Emerson-made saws just keep on going. My current C-man is an Orion and I am quite happy with it. Don't let the badge put you off but remember it is a badge. That may or may not be a fine saw for the money. IMHO.

[scott spencer]

Unless you need the capacity of that saw, if it were me, I'd pass on it and go a more proven entity with something like a Griz 1023, or a used Uni, PM66, or General. A grand isn't chump change in our house. It might be a fine saw, but parts and service could be hard to come by, and resale probably isn't all that good on it. That same money buys alot of saw if the sale God's are smiling your way.

That's my 2 cents...and it's worth every penny! :rolleyes:

[Mike Cutler]

"I've never seen anything like it in Sears"

I don't think you'll see the industrial line of tools next to the socket set Johnny wants for his birthday ;-) When taking the next step on my TS selection I was put off by the cost of 12" blades and the fact that a wimp like me doesn't need the capacity. This doesn't mean you don't need a 12", just that I don't.

I'd do some research to see if you can find out who makes the saw and go on that to some extent. There is some (lower priced) C-man junk but their older Emerson-made saws just keep on going. My current C-man is an Orion and I am quite happy with it. Don't let the badge put you off but remember it is a badge. That may or may not be a fine saw for the money. IMHO.

The name on the front doesn't really present any bias for me. The "new line" of Craftsman hybrid tablesaws,are getting very good writeups on the 'net, in multiple places.

My primary concern is actually being able to get parts for it down the line. If I know who actually made it for Sears. it's easier to track down a comparable part in the future.

I'm going to have a get a pic of it, I reckon.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

The industrial Sears line was a very tough line of tools. If the saw is in PERFECT alignment and it's in VERY good shape $1k would be an ok price. You need to go over it with the proverbial fine toothbefore buying.

Once you confirm it's a good deal and you flip the motor on and run a piece of hardwood through it, I venture to say you'll be impressed.

You will still be able to get parts from Sears, I got pieces for a 40 year old BBQ grill in Garland once.

[Mike Null]

For many years Sears did indeed have a line of tools not sold at retail. They were industrial quality. I think I'd be inclined to have a closer look at this saw and ask them to run it for you. It seems to me like a heck of a deal.

I just sold my old Sears table saw but it served me well for more than 25 years.

[Robert Waddell]

Mike,
I know a fellow woodworker that uses a 12" C-man as you describe. I've not heard anything neg from him about it. I think he's had it for years. Other items in his shop are brands like Powermatic, Belsaw, Woodsmaster, etc. He's also taught classes on table and chair making at John C. Campbell folk school. I would assume he would have kicked it out long ago if it didn't measure up. He sure makes some nice stuff using it.
Rob

[Clint Winterhalter]

The OLD SEARS was great at maintaining parts. The NEW SEARS (owned by Kmart) fired their craftsman brand Mgr and pretty much decided parts support wasn't as important as the old Sears thought it was. I worked for Sears for a very long time as a District Mgr. I have friends that still work for the company. They tell me that the NEW SEARS isn't nearly as committed to parts support as the OLD SEARS. I agree, unless you can figure out who made the saw, I would be careful. You could end up chasing your tail every time you need something for the saw. Sears parts numbers normally begin with a three digit code, followed by the model number. IE 113.29803. The first three numbers indicate who made the saw. In this case 113 is Emerson. (this is the saw I currently own)..

Good luck!

Clint

[Dick Strauss]

Mike,
I see new Delta Unisaws from $1300 locally. You might want to consider going this route if you're already looking at $1000 for the older C-Man.

[Dewayne Reding]

Clint

I could have sworn K Mart filed bankruptcy about five years ago. Are you sure they bought out Sears? I thought Sears acquired K-Mart in some attempt to compete with Wal-Mart in the battle for world retail supremacy.

That aside, I agree they definitely don't keep the used parts on hand for nearly as long as the old days. Companies merge and change hands too often these days. I get a little nervous whenever I buy any expensive tool. I think I would feel more comfortable with a new Grizzy or used UNI etc for about the same price.

[Mike Null]

In the case of this saw and other low volume industrial tools it's not likely that Sears ever carried any parts inventory. Much more likely they contracted with the supplier to ship parts to them or their customers directly on an as needed basis.

Keep in mind that these were sold only through the Industrial Catalog not through the stores.

Even on the radial arm saw recall they had a few years ago (a very high volume retail item) Emerson direct shipped the new parts to owners with Sears never being directly involved.

[Mike Cutler]

Mike,
I see new Delta Unisaws from $1300 locally. You might want to consider going this route if you're already looking at $1000 for the older C-Man.

I've seen them on Amazon two days ago for $1139, with free shipping.

Funny thing about this whole deal is that it came out of left field. I just bought a new General (Hybrid, model 50-220) last Febuary, and while the saw is nice, there are little annoyances with it. I haven't been actively looking to replace it, but I'd been keeping an ear to the ground.

I just kinda figured that any 5hp, 12" cabinet saw is worth the look, and this saw is big. Considerably bigger than a Unisaw, or a PM66. I also know that I have used my saw more in the last year than this one has been used in the last 10.

As I said in the beginning though, I had no idea that Sears offered saws this big.

[Syd Lorandeau]

Hi Mike,
Long time no see. Right now on auctioneer@irsauctions.com in Hughsville PA (you are closer than me) there is:
Table saws;
Northfied Model #4 sliding table saw $701
Delta 10" unisaw 300
Rockwell Model 10 unisaw 200
Delta 10" unisaw 200
Grizzley 10" unisaw 400

Problem is I believe it closes tomorrow.
Syd

[Mike Cutler]

Hi Mike,
Long time no see. Right now on auctioneer@irsauctions.com in Hughsville PA (you are closer than me) there is:
Table saws;
Northfied Model #4 sliding table saw $701
Delta 10" unisaw 300
Rockwell Model 10 unisaw 200
Delta 10" unisaw 200
Grizzley 10" unisaw 400

Problem is I believe it closes tomorrow.
Syd

Syd. My problem is that the site doesn't support Mac's:eek:, :mad: Those are some nice looking saws.
I have XP pro just sitting around wailting to be loaded on the Windows Box. Who knows, just maybe.... That Northfield looks nice.

[Dewayne Reding]

"As I said in the beginning though, I had no idea that Sears offered saws this big."

Mike

Before my time, but did you realize Sears once sold houses in their Sears and Roebock catalog? Sometime between Napolean and Sam Walton, I think Sears may have ruled all the world. :) They likely invented the concept of subcontracting on a large scale.

[Jim Becker]

Before my time, but did you realize Sears once sold houses in their Sears and Roebock catalog?

There are a number of those houses just down the road from me in a town called Wrightstown. All Craftsman style.

[Mike Cutler]

Before my time, but did you realize Sears once sold houses in their Sears and Roebock catalog? Sometime between Napolean and Sam Walton, I think Sears may have ruled all the world. :) They likely have invented the concept of subcontracting on a large scale.

Yeah, at one time they kinda ruled the world. I know that they used to sell tractors, and not the little garden tractors they sell now either, and all forms of farm machinery. I've seen some of their tractors at antique shows. they look liked Massey's, and Deere's depending on the age.
Way before my time also.:D

[Dave Falkenstein]

If it is REALLY 5HP, does it require 3 phase power???

[Mike Cutler]

If it is REALLY 5HP, does it require 3 phase power???

Nope. Single Phase, which could be a problem for me. I might have to throw a 3HP motor in it. I'm a little "current challenged" in my shop. I'd have to upgrade the feeder breaker and associated wiring coming from the main panel in the house. Install a new subpanel in the garage, and split the 220 loads a little differently to keep a 5HP motor.

I can run my 3HP planer and 1 1/2HP DC at the same time, but I'm pushing it with the current electrical configuration, when the 600 watts of lighting are factored in.

[Clint Winterhalter]

Clint

I could have sworn K Mart filed bankruptcy about five years ago. Are you sure they bought out Sears? I thought Sears acquired K-Mart in some attempt to compete with Wal-Mart in the battle for world retail supremacy.

That aside, I agree they definitely don't keep the used parts on hand for nearly as long as the old days. Companies merge and change hands too often these days. I get a little nervous whenever I buy any expensive tool. I think I would feel more comfortable with a new Grizzy or used UNI etc for about the same price.

Dewayne,
Your right Kmart did go bankrupt several years ago. A venture capitalist named Eddie Lampert swooped in and took them over. He managed to produce profit and drove Kmart stock up. Lampert and the former CEO of Sears were buddies supposedly. Long story short they orchestrated Kmarts acquisition of sears check out the web site for the combined company: www.searsholdings.com (http://www.searsholdings.com) Lampert runs the show. The former Sears CEO is gone.. They renamed the company Sears Holding.. I still have a bunch of friends that work for Sears.. Unfortunately Kmart did buy them... The sale caused me to loose faith in their tool like. I basically stopped buying it..
I hope they make it as a combined company...

Clint

[Wes Bischel]

Sears sold cars as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allstate_(automobile)

:D

Wes

[Bartee Lamar]

can you get the model number.

The 1st 3 digits will tell you who manufactured the tool...

Here is the link for the Sears model number 1st 3 digits (http://www.owwm.com/craftsman/Manufacturers.asp)