Hall of Fame/Shame for Tool and Wood Suppliers

[Hilel Salomon]

In reviewing some of the threads, I often come across praise and criticism of stores and suppliers of turning tools, chainsaws and turning blanks. As a tool addict whose credit cards are usually maxed, I've come across some great stores and ebay sellers and some pretty horrible ones. Wouldn't it be nice to have a site where people can look up a potential source before they take the plunge.
I'm lucky that locally (in Columbia, SC) I have a fantastic store for tools (Mann) and an equally great one for outdoor equipment (Catoes). I've also had good luck with most of the mail order supply places, though it's been uneven. Not always having access to free wood (though I have a ton of cherry, walnut and poplar) I've bought blanks on Ebay. Recently, after dealing with three great sellers, I came across a total dud. Before you mention feedback on ebay, be aware that it's a tricky business leaving the criticizer open to all kinds of retribution. There are sites for cameras and other electronic devices, kitchen appliances and the stores which sell them, but to my knowledge there is nothing available for woodworking suppliers. Too bad!!

[Bobby Perry]

I have to give a Very Good reference to steelbar.com. I ordered some items from them about a week ago. The package came in torn down one side. All the tools were gone but the catalog was there. I called them and they have sent the tools to me again free of charge. Even though they didn't have to. It was the Post Offices fault. Very nice people.

[Hilel Salomon]

Thanks Bobby,
What I think I'll do is make a list of sites like that and if anyone wants, I'll send it to them. When I'm up in VA, I don't always have easy access to the internet, but I'll try.
In the meantime, I'll add my own experiences. Having bought hundreds of items in the last few years, my own list is extensive.

[Chuck Beland]

Hilel,
I would definitely be interested in see your list. I am purchasing much needed tools for my lathe & would like some feed back on places with a bad rep.

Chuck

[Curt Fuller]

I'm going to put my neck on the chopping block here for a minute. I worked as a customer service rep for several years and my experiences with that say that a Hall of Fame would be a great idea but a Hall of Shame isn't so good. There are so many reasons why an individual can have a bad experience with a particular company. It can be anything from the 'one bad apple' employee to someone simply mis-understanding what they are purchasing. But human nature sometimes makes us want to gang up and mob the company that offended us or one of our friends when we really don't understand the problem. I believe that if you've had great service, puchased a great product, or otherwise had a great experience with a particular company you should spred the word and let everyone know how you feel. But if you feel you've been burned you should be careful how you spred that until you're sure you've exhausted all means for that company to make it right. And then if it doesn't get resolved the best thing to do is just simply don't do business with them again. I've read all kinds of rants about products and service from all kinds of companies that I've had great experiences with. But if you don't feel you've been treated right you really hurt them most buy purchasing from their competition. Sorry for my long windedness but I just feel that the small businesses we all deal with deserve to suceed or fail by their own merits and not by getting rundown by the mob.

[Tom Jones III]

Ditto what Curt said, lets have the Hall of Fame but skip the shame. Trial by Internet is a terrible thing.

If you have any doubts, look over at the General forum for the recent thread about someone complaining about company A's customer service. After a long process it turns out he was wrong and didn't even purchase it at company A! Thankfully our poster did the right thing and made a public apology and correction on the forum but this would not likely happen on a wall of shame.

[Mark Pruitt]

What Curt (and Tom) said.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ditto Curt and Tom. If I get burned by a company I just don't go back.

[Hilel Salomon]

If the last few replies constitutes a consensus, then perhaps I shouldn't include a Hall of Shame. The fact is though that a lot of the people who write are new to the game. For them to suffer and not benefit from others' experiences wouldn't be right. I think that all the mail order places are pretty good. I've had very good luck with Lee Valley, Highland Hardware, Woodcraft, Craft Supplies , Packard, Rockler, Hartsville and less so with some of the other large ones. Incidentally, I've used them all. I noticed that some people had difficulty with Woodchips, but I've had nothing but good results from them and from the Best Things.
For those of you in woodturning clubs, you might want to contact C.A. Savoy. One discounter of Oneway items never answers emails.
Also ...... Some of the manufacturers are notoriously slow in responding to problems. Delta and Jet have been good, and Bosch is amost perfect in my experience. If you really want to deal with Ryobi and Ridgid, go ahead. Oneway tech support is fantastic and Tecknatool is excellent. I've also had other lathes and been very frustrated by their failure to respond to inquiries.
The idea that if "you can't say something good, then you shouldn't say anything at all" is, I think wrong. My friends and I steered clear of those camera shops which had consistenly bad reviews, but my son took a chance and paid for it. I've come across Ebay sellers who misrepresent their goods, almost never reply to inquiries and take forever to send their items, yet have reasonably good "feedback." If one does complain, and it is a solitary instance, then it might be ok to take a chance. If anything, the complaint will notify the seller to be more careful. Merely being silent, though, contributes to sloppiness and poor customer support and that hurts all of us.

[Rich Stewart]

I vote NO on either fame or shame. Too risky. Internet is too powerful. Good people could be hurt. I don't think this belongs in this forum.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I'm with Rich and Curt and others on this one. The internet is a powerful tool. One person could rant and give a bad reputation to a company when, in fact, it was that person's perception or actions and not the company's actions that created the problem. As someone who's been in customer service for over 30 years I can tell you I've seen both types. I've had customer's that jump up and raise Cain when in reality the problem was caused by them and yet they expect the company to resolve free-of-charge a problem that they, the customer, created..caused. On the other side of the coin, I've seen customers who took what bordered on abuse and didn't say a thing. Perceptions of what constitutes good or bad customer service is very subjective.

[Bobby Perry]

I have to give a Very Good reference to www.steebar.com (http://www.steebar.com). I ordered some items from them about a week ago. The package came in torn down one side. All the tools were gone but the catalog was there. I called them and they have sent the tools to me again free of charge. Even though they didn't have to. It was the Post Offices fault. Very nice people.I guess I am going to have to retract my reference for this company. I have talked to them 3 times and so far all I have recieved is lies. Everytime I talk to them the items will be sent out the next day.I have talked to the same person 3 times and always the same answer. I also have to tell him the whole story over again. I am going to file with the post office and wait for 6 months to a year to get anything. I am also going to cancel the charge to my credit card.

[Gary Herrmann]

Good references are always welcome. If I've never purchased from a vendor, I'll ask if I'm worried. PMs are usually the best forum for that.

That said, I am continually impressed with LV's customer service. They've sent me extra parts, combined orders, and are just very knowledgeable and helpful folks. If only they'd open a store in St. Louis. Then I'd have the perfect retirement job.

I've also had good luck with Redmond Machinery and the folks at Mini-Max. I also like the guys at the local Woodcraft and Rockler. They don't always have the best prices, but the folks that work there are helpful and competent.

[Hilel Salomon]

After so many "don't do it" messages, I decided not to pursue it further except to send a PM to one of the people who wanted advice. As I get older though, I do have less patience with discourtesy and incompetence-more for the former than latter. I don't know if the rest of you feel that way, but my experiences with banks, computer firms and the like have been incredibly frustrating. They ship out so-called "customer service" jobs overseas and the results are usually disastrous.

Some of you said that the best way to handle this is to not deal with the offenders again, but that won't send them any kind of message. Moreover it won't help anyone else. Anyway, as a profligate consumer who has dealt with every major and most smaller woodworking companies, I'll be happy to share my experiences in personal messages with anyone who wants it. I am the recipient of fantastic kindness, sound advice and encouragement from other turners and woodworkers so...

[Ron Sardo]

Hilel, I'm glad you are not planing on pursuing this idea. I think it causes more problems than its worth.

On the flip side, I don't mind hearing stories from both sides of the coin. I've seen cases where a negative story turns positive. Either the customer realizes they where expecting to much and sometimes the company makes good on their product.

[Raymond Overman]

I won't say good or bad but these are the vendors I list on my blog site for those that are looking for resources:


Woodturning Vendors


Arizona Silhouette (http://www.arizonasilhouette.com/)
Best Wood Tools (http://www.bestwoodtools.com/)
Craft Supplies (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/)
Industrial Abrasives (http://commerce.riverweb.com:8002/index.html)
Klingspor Abrasives (http://www.klingspor.com/)
Klingspor Woodworking Shop (http://www.woodworkingshop.com/)
Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/)
Nashville Wraps (http://www.nashvillewraps.com/)
Packard Woodworks (http://www.packardwoodworks.com/)
Penn State Industries (http://www.pennstateind.com/)
Rockler (http://www.rockler.com/index.cfm)
Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/)
Woodturning Tools by John Lea (http://www.woodturningtools.net/store.htm) Search: -->Some of these I've purchased from. Some I've marked for future purchases. Again, I'm not affiliated with any of these nor do I endorse their product or service.

[Dick Strauss]

Bobby,
Can you change the link in your first note about from "SteelBar.com" to "Steebar.com"? "SteelBar" seems to be a junk referal site that generates lots of pop-ups.

Thanks in advance,
Dick