Your Best Work Is In Front of You...

[Doug Evans]

I am kind of tendering this out to better understand a process here so, bear with me.

Most of us here are hobbyists, and based on past forray's with similar threads there are numerous reasons we have taken the neander approach to woodworking. Just guessing again but, I would suspect that the bulk of us fall within the age bracket 40-65 (Darn it Doug - it's been a long week - Wouldya get to the point?). Anyways... to get to the point... How do you see this whole ww hobby progressing, as you move through the next 20 years - personally?

I expect the answers to this to be quite different but, it may help us all as woodworkers to see what like-minded ENB's (sometimes Joanne shortens me to just a no-mind B - but then that's to be expected onnacountta the bother to her that I am) have cooked up for their future.

Movin' right along (y'can keep munchin on the Chow Mein in the cardboard box there - I'm not offended - toss me a chicken ball if the mood strikes ya though!)... Where are you at now (No, I mean other than the lazy-boy) in terms of your skills, creativity, etc? Are you going to seek out eductaion opportunities (It's never too late you know - Ben went back and completed his grade five examinations last year - quite a touching moment when Sally Struthers presented him with his degree...)? How much better do you think you'll get (despite what you spouse says)? Do you have a major project which you will embark on at some point? Do you think that is something you will do or will it be numerous smaller projects. Do you build to plan, or design and build?

OK. You can go back to "Everybody loves Raymond" now. I wont trouble you any more this evening. But think what's coming down the pipe and pen it down here. We'll all get back in twenty years and see how the actual game went down.

Cheers,

Doug

[Roger Myers]

That's a lot of heavy thinking for this time of night, but let me see if I can put some words down that make sense...and I have trouble with that even earlier in the day...
As I'm heading up to the 50 mark, I do see a real change in my attitude and approach...I now seek to try and learn something new in each project that I tackle, with the thought that all these little pearls of wisdom will somehow come together in the future.
I'm active in our local woodworking guild and attend as many meetings/workshops as I can; joined SAPFM and AAW during the last couple of years; spent a few days with a bunch of loonies building planes (or was that spending loonies???) ; and a recent hi-light, spent a week full-time in a class with Alan Breed building a Portsmouth 2 Drawer Federal stand with hand tools...(extra gloat, the class was 1 on 1 with Al for the entire week!). This winter I'm planning on some lathe instruction, because I'm still a real rookie on things that aren't flat.
I'm a regular at the LFOD auctions now, as I try to add to my neander wares...
Where is all this headed? The job is stressful, and isn't going away for another 10 years or so, and the quiet of the shop is a blessing...but it is also an area where I can continue to learn and derive great personal satisfaction...the goal? I'm not sure...I don't intend to sell professionaly, but I do want to leave my mark...the furniture for my daughter is especially important! On a personal level, when I can complete and do justice to a Newport secretary, that will be a milestone...and is certainly a goal I'm shooting for. In the meantime, the Queen Ann lowboy is waiting to be completed, and I'm working out the design details for a Pennsylvania Spice Chest, and learning something new each day!
Not sure if I answered the questions...but hey, it's late!
Roger

Picture below is from the week with Al!

[Glenn Clabo]

How do you see this whole ww hobby progressing, as you move through the next 20 years - personally?
Doug
Doug,
I'm right in the middle of that age group you figured on...getting ready to retire in the next few years. My plan is to be geared up to do what I want...when I want to. I'm still being drawn to the neander approach...but I can't get the electrified equipment out of my mind.
I do plan on furthering my wood working education...well...to get a more formal education than I have. I'm a reader...and I hope the last thing to go on me is my mind. ?Does single malt actually increase brain cells?...I think I'm smarter when ever I partake? I've drooled over many a class here in New England...but never can make the time. This darn work thing keeps getting in the way.
My next project is a library for my love (prof at the university) so she can work more comfortably at home...especially after I retire. So a bunch of cherry will be abused over the next few months.
My normal way of building things is to plan like crazy...throw them away...and go by eye. Cost more over the long run...but it comes out better...to my eye anyway.
Thanks for the thought provoking questions...coffee is more enjoyable.

[Roger Turnbough]

Doug querried,

(snip)
Most of us here are hobbyists, and based on past forray's with similar threads there are numerous reasons we have taken the neander approach to woodworking. Just guessing again but, I would suspect that the bulk of us fall within the age bracket 40-65 (Darn it Doug - it's been a long week - Wouldya get to the point?). Anyways... to get to the point... How do you see this whole ww hobby progressing, as you move through the next 20 years - personally?
(end snip)

First off, some groundwork, I'm 45, been a carpenter for 17 years, and a woodworker for bout 3 or so. I've got a complete shop for the most part, and enough old tools that the wife kinda gives me that crosseyed look whenever I try and sneak anything more into the basement. I would imagine that as a whole, less than 2% of the entire population of North America does any kind of woodworking. Could be less than that. I doubt very seriously that the number of woodworkers will change with any significance in the next couple hundred years. Its a funny thing about woodworking.

Meaning, that a seed needs to be planted. Usually at a young age, in the teen or pre-teen years, then it seems to take 20-30 years for that seed to germinate and start to grow. Seems it takes that long to get secure in your life, Wife, home, kids, cars, career after about year 10 or 15 you are finally becoming secure enough to broaden your horizons, than it hits you.....

SWMBO needs a book shelf, so you hie yourself down to the bigbox, but nuttin there suits your needs, you remember as a kid, you built a (something) with your dad or someone and say, I can make this, only need a drill, and a saw........ (POOF) instant woodworker. And it starts to grow from there........

(snip)
mood strikes ya though!)... Where are you at now (No, I mean other than the lazy-boy) in terms of your skills, creativity, etc? Are you going to seek out eductaion opportunities (It's never too late you know - Ben went back and completed his grade five examinations last year - quite a touching moment when Sally Struthers presented him with his degree...)? How much better do you think you'll get (despite what you spouse says)? Do you have a major project which you will embark on at some point? Do you think that is something you will do or will it be numerous smaller projects. Do you build to plan, or design and build?
(end snip)

I've got plenty of creativity, I can design things that are far past my ability to produce them. I live within 5 hours of 2 great WW schools in Indianapolis, In. and would love greatly to take as many classes there as I can, but being as I only get 1 week of vacation a year, and the wife like me to spend it with her, It dont look like I will be attending any for quite a while yet.

Major projects huh? At some point, I would like to build a cedar strip canoe, a Pennsylvania Highboy, and a Waisted Grandfather clock. Plus I want to make sure that each of my 3 boys has an heirloom piece to take with them into the rest of their life.

You ask, how much better do you think you'll get. Tough question. Im sure my abilities will grow, and my experience as I progress through each project will grow too. When I finish a piece, I am never totally satisfied with how it came out, maybe a flyspec in the finish, could be one side of a dovetail out of 40 dovetails dont meet quite right, there is always something. Always room for improvement, ever a quest for Knowledge and experience.

Sorry about being so wordy, but I love my hobby, there is none other that I would rather do.

Respectfully,

Roger

[Doug Evans]

The responses are great!

Doug

[Marc Hills]

My father is a retired college professor. His entire world was teaching, books, scholarly journals and academia. The thought of him doing any sort of mechanical arts was incomprehensible to anyone in my family. When he retired however, it is as though a switch clicked on (or off, depending on your point of view) in his head. He announced one day that he was going to make snowshoes out of steambent ash. Before my mother could arrange counseling, he had moved on to steambent furniture, regular furniture and boatbuilding, with several side trips to relief carving and intarsia.

The point is, I believe upon his retirement, my dad poured his obvious passion for his scholarly pursuits into something long latent in his makeup, the urge to create.

I unfortunately do not share my father's passion to my own vocation, it is merely a means to an end. So for me, the urge to work wood is in full blossom at age 41. It is a present outlet for the passionate side of me, my left-brained self, so to speak.

I'm still pretty new to this hobby, so predicting the next 20 years personally is highly speculative. I suppose I could tire of it next month, although there is no indication that it will happen. My household certainly needs my mechanical skills, and my growing tool collection strongly suggests a long term commitment.

All the work I've done so far is largely rooted in need and practicality, but I imagine sooner or later, I'll try something a bit more artistic.

I would obviously like to see my skills grow and the complexity of my projects increase. I harbor a (now, no longer secret) dream of building a sailboat someday. I look for classes that I can afford to attend, and am at the stage where I realize that the biggest obstacle to further (or at least more rapid) progression is the fact that I don't interact face-to-face with other woodworkers.

Finally, I am so struck with the wonder of hand tools and traditional techniques, I hope that if I stick with it, I might someday get the opportunity to instruct others. Nothing like a woodworking school mind you, and I have a long way to go before I could hold myself out to be truly knowledgable. But I'd love to do some sort of adult community education class or run some sort of museum sponsored workshop.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Where to begin? I work with wood for a number of reasons- relaxation, the joy of doing something with my hands, to get furniture the style and quality Sue and I want for our home at a reasonable price, and because it's just plain FUN. As for my progress over the next 20 years- I have high expectations. I hope to be able to get both good and efficient enough that I can supplement my retirement on a casual basis with a small woodworking and tool making income. I always want to have a hobby and some useful pursuits so I don't become a dottering old fool stagnating and just waiting for my time to come. My major goal however is to replace most of the store bought furniture in the house with 18th century reproduction pieces built in the traditional manner. There's so much we like which isn't available commercially at any price and building it myself is the only way we'll ever get it. There's so much challenge and mental activity related to looking at a museum piece or a photo of a "whatever" and figuring out how it went together and how to draw the plans and build it.

To further my goals I intend to continue to school myself by reading, taking classes, going to symposia, and just plain putting in the necessary shop hours improve my skills. Each new project will be chosen with an eye toward providing challenges and opportunities to learn new skills. In order to grow I have to push the limits, repetition of past successes does not do this. I'm sure I'll falter and botch things up along the way, but hard won lessons are often the best and they certainly stick with you the longest. One final note, I hope to teach some of my learned skills- nothing forces you to improve your skills, plan well, and organize as much as teaching something.

[Carl Eyman]

I'm glad you posted that, because it is what I wanted to say and now I don't have to type it.

Of course, at age 82 (almost) I'd be foolish to set my sights too far out. However, if I err in that regard I'd rather set them too far rather than too short.

I'm off to Williamsburg this year, again, and hope a tall clock will result. After that, we'll see. I'd sure like to take a Mike Dunbar, Phil Lowe, Allan Breed, or one of their contemporaries' classes - but their videos are good,too.

Oh yeh, I've never turned a bowl. When am I gonna to that?

[Dave Anderson NH]

You better stay away from the lathe or you'll need to live another 50 to 100 years just to have time for the turning. I'll look forward to seeing you again at Williamsburg at the first session in January. I see a clock or two in my future projects too.

[Noah Alkinburgh]

Doug,

While I wouldn't consider myself a true Neander (probably not even a true woodworker yet), although packing an old hand plane to take with you on vacation to fettle and clean up might get me in the door of the club, I thought it would be fun to respond.

First off in the next 20 years I hope to see myself in the age bracket that seems to be the average here. :D Sorry couldn't resist that, but seriously I would like to be in a position to mentor others much as you folks do for me. I truly enjoy teaching and if an opportunity do that ever came about I would very much enjoy that.

When it comes to creativity, I have much to learn. I have learned that I have no real sense of balance or symetry, I have often plowed through something only to be dissastified with the end result b/c I missed the simple things. The slight tapering, the small bead to give a pleasing shadow line, the "sexy" curve, and things like that.

Big projects, oh my, I have grandiose plans...I also have two tiny ones and another on the way. (well now you know how the next 20 years will really be spent :) ) Time is a factor and money is another. I would love to build some great heirloom things and someday I will. I have really started to try new things to stretch myself though.

As far as classed go, well again, someday I hope to. I try to read what I can, and I eat up what is posted on the forums. Money is an issue at this stage of the game, which makes it tough, time is also an issue, it often seems selfish of me to spend the time I do when my kids could be played with. I am looking forward (not that I want to speed up time) when the possiblity will be for me to include my children in the learning opportunities that might be presented to me.

As far as plans and building or design and build, I would say I am on the use someone elses plans and build stage. But amazingly, hanging out with all these creative people is beginning to wear off and I have started noodling some of my own ideas.

Thanks for asking, hope I didn't bore you. Looking forward to a time when I might get to meet you and possibly the day I will be able to make one of your fine tools and do it justice in both the building and the use of it.

Noah

[Scott Quesnelle]

I don't fall in the age bracket you specified Doug but I'm gonna respond anyways.

I'm a 29 yr. old beginning ww'r. I have gone the neander route since I don't have the space currently for powah tools and its kinda hard to hear the music with the table saw going. I also enjoy the physical motion side of neander woodworking since an hour on the treadle lathe is far better and entertaining exercise than doing my hamster impression on the treadmill (Maybe if the treadmill powered a grinder..... ).

I am currently completely self taught, other that what I got from working with my dad on various carpentry and the odd cabinetry project.

I do plan to take some courses in the near future, but I currently am just in the accumulation of items phase of things. Build me some more tools, and some more projects.

Most of my projects have been design and build, but I may move to some prebought plans for a few projects just to concentrate on the build part instead of the design part. This will also hopefully let me complete them a bit sooner too since SWMBO is starting to get insistant about some of them.

I have a goal that I want to be able to look at almost anything and build a good copy of it if I want, and of course items of my own design. I figure a timeline of 30 years should let me build the skills necessary to do that. I will probably also work to replace most of my current furnishings with my own products as time goes on. (I say most since there are some antique items I want to keep for sentinmental reasons and they are also pretty nice).

I sure hope single malt makes me smarter. :)
Laphroaig and Oban sure make me feel smarter.

Scott Quesnelle
Guelph, Ontario

[Alan Turner]

Doug,
What an introspective set of questions you pose. I am 54, in your boomer prediction era, and more neander now than before, and increasing that as time goes along. I have a day job which I love, and have now started taking commissions for one-off pieces. Working on my first now, which may turn into 4 from the same client if all goes well.
I learned much from my father, a weekender himself, but most I have learned from books. I have taken only 2 classes: one from a collection of greats for a weekend in the late 70's at Bucks County Community College (Frid, Kirby, Mateo, etc.), and 3 days this past Spring from Jeff Jewitt (on finishing, of course). I would take more, but time is an issue. But, I did spend half a day recently with Tom Law to learn how to file saws, and what a great day that was.
I find that each of my projects is new, in a sense, because it entails something I have not done before, and from this I learn. I am also privileged to be teaching a bit as well, an adult evening course on furniture joinery with hand tools, and Dave Anderson is right on the money: to teach forces one to really learn. I studied and learned a ton getting ready for this course. I am sure that I learned more than I taught others.
The next 20 years? Well, that’s a heavy bit of thinking. Ideally, I would find commercial space, and use it as a studio and classroom, and both build and teach specialized courses from there as well. Not to the extent of a Marc Adams approach, but more locally, and only as an income supplement, and not as a primary way of earning a living. While committed to hand tools, I do not ever expect to four square my stock by hand, when a jointer and planer are so much more efficient. But, I will even now reach for a beading tool instead of a router if at all possible, and not unreasonable. And I will use a rip bow saw instead of spending an hour changing out a resaw blade on my bandsaw. I think increasingly in terms of how can I do this by hand, instead of how can I make a jig to do this on a ___saw.
A project on the horizon? A goal? That a client will favor me with an order for a major dining room piece, or some such thing (and that it will be successful, of course).
Great question, and quite thought provoking.
Alan

[Eric Sanford]

than what's been posted....so much applies to the why I've immersed myself in this hobby. At 43 I hope I have time to achieve some level of expertise and ability, but I'm hesitant to define the goal because I don't want to limit myself.

As noted, the educational aspect - challenging my mental abilities to design, to determine a solution to a construction problem, to address the subtelties of aesthetics that can make/break a project, the inherent challenges of working with wood, are fascinating. I read several forums, magazines and regularly add to my woodworking library. Each project I undertake seems to be based on what additional skill I have to try in order to complete it.....to the point that I often overdo things because I want the practice and experience that come with a challenge......so what if I'm not designed for production mode....oh well :)

I've been fortunate to take various classes, which are wonderful for both the learning as well as the friendships that can evolve.

I enjoy the solitude of the shop whether using hand tools and even the occasional electron-eater....hand planing gives a wonderful sense of accomplishment, but at times I need to be rescued from my own errors ;).

And then there are the tangible results that serve as a reminder of the achievement, the learning, and the pride of having made something that is pleasing to you (or others).

[Charles McKinley]

Hi All,

I'm just starting my neander inventory. I use then to supplement my power tools. I have started to do woodworking to bring in extra money as I am a stay at home dad.

I design most of the things I have done.

I'm mostly self taught- built stuff on the farm growing up, books, videos.

Eventually I want to sell and teach to support my family.

Major project would be to build 18th century furniture to complete my house and to fully restore the barn that my great-grandfather built. A friend of mine commented that it wasn't exactly fine joinery and I asked if he could mortise a 40 foot beam and have it fit when hoisted into place. :D

[Doug Evans]

This hobby is very much alive and growing. Just so you know Alan, I have media packages from FWW and Pop WW and you are at the average age for both magazines! Personally, I would go for the average FWW income $110,000 and average annual spending on tools of $10,500.

Course we've got Carl at 82 with what seems like the energy of a racehorse - ya wanna work for Shepherd? - all the Tim Hortons Coffee and Donuts you can stand (sorry Glenn, know you're a little touchy about that which never should be menshuned). And Scott, another outlier , at 29, living about 20 minutes south of me. Hmmm... if he's an outlier, then up in Fergus, I must be considered an outright lier. Then again, folks did say that about me when I said a shoulder plane took four hours.

Lotta folks gaining ejucashun in many ways. Lotta teachers-in-the-makin. All good stuff.

Doug

[Scott Quesnelle]

Hmm.. always seems I'm the outlier in hobbies I pick.

Blacksmithing, woodworking, machining, oldtooling.. All the making stuff hobbies seem to be populated by people older than me... Why is it?

And Doug as for the outright liar part, I doubt it.. Though some have been known to stretch things a bit after a few drams of the good stuff. I'm sure the four hour thing was just a bit of boasting.... I can build a plane in X hours with one hand tied behind my back. Oh wait, you aren't the one who works one handed, your partner in production is.

Now if I can just find some more neanders in the guelph area, we might just be able to get ourselves organized and do the odd get together or something.

So any neanders who are planning to be in Guelph anytime soon let me know, and we can see about swapping tales of wood butchering and hand tool use.

Scott Quesnelle
Guelph, Ontario

[scott pollack]

being 38, im almost at that age bracket and i hope its ok to post this. with that being said , here is my 2 cents worth.

i enjoy the hand tool approach because it relaxes me. i am a trucking dispatcher by trade and its a very hectic and stressfull job. having the privilege of coming home to a loving wife and to be able to quitely work on a piece of oak or cherry is very relaxing. i like the sound of the plane against the wood, the feel of a sharp chisel paring ever so slightly a sliver of wood from a mortise or the small shaivings i get from a scraper card. it really calms me down. and as others have said, i dont have the space or money for bigger power tools. im not sure i would enjoy the noise and having asthma , i dont need the extra dust!

i consider myself an intermediate ww. im still learning with each project and i hope to learn until i cant do this anymore. i took up furniture making again because we could use some good pieces in the house and what is available in stores in just plain junk! i have sold one piece and hope to sell a few more but mostly this is for us. i am currently in the middle of two projects. im taking a cabinetmaking class at the local votech and there i am making a colonial linen closet out of red oak that we will use as our kitchen pantry. at home , i am building my son an entertainment center.so far so good on both.

as far as my dream project, a roll top desk would be it. ive wanted to make one for a long time and i hope the time is coming soon to start. i would love to have it come out right and for kathleen to look at it and say " wow, thats really nice" . more than anything i want to make her proud of me. and to see her smile and be just so happy about what ive made makes it all worth it.

lastly , 20 years from now i hope to still be doing this. ill still have my table saw, miter saw and router but i would like a better collection of planes and chisels by then. and i hope to have improved upon my skills so i can look back and say remember when i couldnt cut this right or when i couldnt join this properly. to be able to do things better, not necessarily quicker , would be fine with me. i would like to improve my design skills and not rely on store bought measured drawings.

well, thanks for listening. scotty

[Steve Kubien]

I grew into an electric woodworker. Dad had the tablesaw, drill press, routers, sanders etc. That just seemed to be the way to go and learn stuff. After he died, I found an old no-name #5 and some saws. Searches on the net brought me to the Pond, Porch and other sites for info on using and sharpening these tools. Wow, the slope is VERY slippery. Now I'm trying to go more and more neanderthal. The plane collection grows, chisels are sharp and saws are within easy reach.

I find myself designing some small pieces these days (boxes, candle stands and such). Nothing very elaborate. That will come someday. For now I am trying to improve the skills I have and learn some new ones. I'm getting better with dovetails. M&T's are next. My ability with planes is coming along nicely. Time and money are significant factors for a 32 year old with 2 kids so I won't be running out to buy a real nice tenon saw anytime soon (guess I'll have to learn to sharpen the old one Dad had).

The future is too vast to know much about. I'd like to teach my kids about this great hobby. Who knows, maybe one of them will be the next Frid or Krenov. Supplimenting my income would be nice, if only to buy more tools and take some classes. As for a project goal....I really like Krenov's cabinet-on-stand pieces. I'd like to get some really wild looking poplar, make curved doors and drawers, make a teak stand and have the shlefs inside appear to float without support. Stand back and be able to say, "It's just the way I wanted it". Until then, I will continue to pursue the perfect, fluffy shaving. I know it's out there somewhere.

Great topic Doug!

Steve Kubien

[Ralph Umphfres]

Eleven years ago this month I found myself getting a liver transplant. I was at the time instructing for a Midwest co. I had a nice shop with all of the tools to fix autos and computers. a I found that this was no longer the line of interest I wished to pursue. I started reading and the rest they say is history. I fall dead in the middle of your age group and plan to live way beyond the top limit. There is no rush, no noise, just peace and quite and I like it that way. Woosh woosh down the slop or I mean across the board.

[Richard Gillespie]

Being on the high end of the age scale given at 57 makes me a little nervous. I just don't yet have the confidence in my skill sets that I see demonstrated daily by the contributors to this and other forums.

I started down the the power tool path years ago. When I retired from a job I had grown very tired of, I wanted to learn professional, production wood work. I went to work in a local semi custom furniture/cabinet making shop. I quickly learned that I wasn't too fond of mass production wood working. I did enjoy being given the occasional special one of a kind job to do. After over fours experience I left that job. I had became very turned off on production woodworking and was having problems with the very dusty environment.

After a few months sitting at home lurking on woodworking forums I revived my interests. Now, however, I've become more and more interested in the hand tool methods. So much so, that I've bought a number of planes and saws on ebay. Some of these I've attempted to restore and use. They have become favorites. I now reach for hand tools first and power equipment when needed.

I am absolutely amazed at how much knowledge is being shared on these forums. The information I've received is invaluable. But knowledge is like an inverted pyramid. The little gem you learn today makes you want to learn so much more. I only hope that the information is being saved and compiled for future woodworkers. I've found in my family that love for woodworking isn't always past down to the next generation. Neither of my sons are interested.

Every time I do a piece of furniture, I hope that It will survive for many years and continue to give visual and tactile pleasure to those that encounter or use it. Every piece, I try to stretch my horizons, to use methods I've never used before. That has, however, sometimes, caused me grief trying to fix mistakes.

Most of my recent work has gone to family who seem very appreciative of the quality and visual appeal of the pieces. I hope these pieces last in the family for many years. I hope I do this right but I going to try to attach pictures of a pencil post canopy bed I just built for my son and daughter-in-law. We set the bed up in the family room and surprised them with it on Thanksgiving day. The attached picture is the bed set up in their house with them in in.

[Doug Evans]

Why dont you hook up with Rajiv, in Kitchener. Ben and I would probably participate and I'm pretty sure we could suck in a number of others.

Regards,

Doug

[Scott Quesnelle]

I've gotten together with Rajiv once at his place and I saw him last week.

Will probably post something over on that canadian woodworking site to see who all in the KW area is interested in getting together to drink coffee or other liquids and swapping sources tales and what not.

Hope you guys are having a good Xmas season.

Scott Quesnelle