Sawstop Worth It

[Mac Cambra]

Guys I got this cost breakdown from my local WoodCraft Store:

5HP 230V single phase $2999.99
52 inch fence $369.00
extension table $99.00
mobile base $199.99
brake for 8" dado $89.00
zero clearance insert. $29.00
Additional Freight Cost $450.00
Sub Total: $4234.99
Tax $ 264.69

Grand Total $4499.68

Its a lot of money, and for some reason the additional freight charges really tick me off, I don't know why. I guess the whole "ala carte" sales process for this tool bugs me. Seemingly if they just came out with the $4.5k price tag without the nickel and dime menu might be more palatable.

This question for the tool owners, is it worth it? Have you had any false triggers where a blade and brake were destroyed?

Love to here some commentary now that some of you have had to to use yours saws.

I guess it really boils down to I want one of these and the damn price is out of reach right now, and I already have a decent saw which makes justifying this guy all that much harder. Hopefully these will gain in popularity and the price will come down, probably not since this is not a commoditized product.

Thanks,

Mac

[Mitchell Andrus]

Do a search for Sawstop threads. You'll get more than you'll want to read.

[Anthony Anderson]

Mac, As for the fence, some people may already have a fence that they like, and can transfer to the SawStop. It can save them some money, and make the saw fit into their budget. I personally do not use the tablesaw to cut dadoes. Therefore I would not want the dado insert or brake, and would be a waste of money, if they included it as a package deal.

The shipping does not sound right. I quoted from my local tool center, who has one on the floor, and there is no shipping to my door. The price pans out to be about the same as if I bought it from SawStop, paying shipping and no taxes if I buy from SawStop compared to not paying shipping and paying taxes if I buy locally. If WoodCraft is charging you shipping then I say order directly from SawStop and save the tax money.

I have heard and read only positives about the SawStop. My son is nearing the age that he is going to be working in the shop, so SawStop is on the list of near future purchases.

Regards, Bill

[Lars Thomas]

here we go again . . .

[Steven Wilson]

Or a MiniMax C26 for $6300 and you have a 10" jointer/planner, 10" sliding table saw (42"stroke), and a shaper.

[Mike Parzych]

lol....a cheaper alternative:

DON'T STICK YOUR FINGERS IN THE SAW!!!!

[Mark Visconti]

My local store (not a Woodcraft) also charges freight as well as tax on SawStop. I believe they do this on Festool out-of-stock orders as well.

I want to support them to some level (browsing tools has its value). On the "plus" side (if you can call it that), at least with price fixed items, they're only 6% more expensive than mailorder.

Mark

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Mac,

What could you get out of selling your saw?

Have you had close calls or are just uncomfortable with the TS?

The people that have them have seemed happy with them.

Yep, Steve at that kind of money the Minimax does look appealing.

As far as shipping goes the margin on big machines is pretty thin and shipping cost are very high due to the cost of fuel. Expect shipping to stay high due to changes in diesel fuel manufacturing and new emission controlls on the big truck that are causing all kinds of problems. (read a brand new trucks costing nearly $100K sitting on the lot that won't start)

[Homer Faucett]

Hey, Mac, I have been mulling over the idea myself. I have a good contractor saw, but want to purchase a SS next year (hoping the price comes down, too). After looking at the ala carte pricing, I really hate the apparently inflated shipping that you have to pay.

I priced out everything I wanted, and then pared it back to what I decided I absolutely need. I have never used my TS for dadoes, so that figure I don't need to pay for the extra brake. The fence seems a tad expensive, and I'm fine with my current T2 fence, so I'll keep that from my old saw. I'll use the aftermarket mobile base I already have, make my own ZCI and extension table, and I think I'm set with $2799 for the saw and $525 shipping.

The only thing I am thinking about upgrading is the 3hp motor to 5 hp. However, that is probably serious overkill on a 10" TS, since my 1.75 hp saw does just fine for me right now. I have to think that there is a better way to get the saw to a customer without the $525 shipping surcharge. That just stinks, especially since places like Grizzly and Wilke ship similar items for 1/2 to 1/5 that price, and freight ends up adding 20% to the cost of an already expensive saw.

[John Russell]

The saw was worth the price to me. I do know that the saw is very heavy and paying 500 or so for shipping did not seem excessive given the heft of the machine. If I had it to do over again, I would get an incra fence rather than the sawstop fence, but that is just a personal choice issue.

I have the 5hp version and had a 3hp uni before. I would be just as happy with a 3hp sawstop.

I have been thinking of getting a combination machine to deal with space issues and something like the minimax is an option too. If I did that, I would still keep the sawstop for ripping.

PS-- there is a thread now at FWW about flase triggers, etc... essentially not really a problem the way I read the thread, but check for yourself.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Why not look at the Austrian Sliders like Felder or the Italian Minimax or the Austrian Felder/Hammer line.

It's a heck of a lot more saw for pretty close tho the same $$.

as an aside Safety on the euro style sliders is second to none.

[Carroll Courtney]

How is it that Grizzly can shipped a 5hp 10" saw for a 143.00 and the other is how much?4500 for a table saw?I could buy afew things for that money,10" TS,8" joiner,etc.Like my father inlaw use to say its worth every penny when you need !!

[Mac Cambra]

I haven't had any near accidents with respect to cutting myself on my saw but I did have one serious incident with kickback - my fault. I had removed the guard and splitter while cutting 1/4" ply, it shot back hit me in the gut bounced back and caught the blade only to kick back and hit me again. My whole mid-section/torso was purple. It really caused a hideous bruise. Needless to say I am not so careless when using the tool. Maybe I needed to be reminded to not be so cavalier.

I guess my feeling is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, which is what all the marketing hype is about. One of my friends also said he would be $5k ahead and keep his fingers away for the blade as well. You and I both know that "stuff" happens.

I have a 3HP Delta unisaw, bought one of their limited addition packages on special from Wood Worker Supply for $1450 or so, with free shipping about 3 years ago. The saw came with the mobile base, 50 inch commercial Bies, ext. table. On resale, given the saw is in very good condition I wouldn't expect to get much over $1000 if I could get that. Maybe I am wrong.

I could scale back on some of the accessories, 3HP instead of 5HP, make my own extension, etc, but when you are talking $5k a couple hundred bucks really is nothing, might as well go first class.

Anyway, I was hoping someone would say something compelling like they had some sort of outer body experience cutting wood on this thing that would make this purchase an easy choice.

Thanks Again

[Mike Heidrick]

This saw cuts like no saw I have ever used in my life. It is the best I have ever used. Out of body - no, it is just a saw - But it is most likely the best saw that I will ever need and that feels good.

Shipping and fence prices really make me mad too.

Then you get the saw and go to work for a month or two (some people on here maybe make that in a few hours I don't know) and realize that the money is easily made again and you still have the best cabinet saw you can buy right now when you have that done.

Get the 5hp - you cannot add it latter. Get the table. Choose your fence selection - as far as Bies like fences it is the best - other than that get an Incra. People may ask why it is the best Bies fence and then you show them you can change out the faces of the fence in minutes and adjust it till it glides like air and then you know you made the right Bies selection.

I am pretty sure my Woodcraft said that the deal on shipping is $375 to all their stores. May be a line. I had to still drive 40 miles to Woodcraft and get it and I paid $375 to have it shipped there.

The shipping prices on Sawstop's menu show IL to be $525 and Florida to be $600. It is a beast - get some buddys to help lift it.

It costs a load but you will love it tons and tons.

[John Shuk]

Sorry, I think that may be a bit steep. My opinion.

[Mark Singer]

I am enjoying mine and the qualuty is excellent! I had a PM 66 and Unisaw in the past.... This is better. I prefer a cabinet saw to a Euro slider... just the way I am I guess. The way my shop is set up its a better format. If you do a lot of sheet goods then a Euro slider is better no question.

[Jay Brewer]

Why not look at the Austrian Sliders like Felder or the Italian Minimax or the Austrian Felder/Hammer line.

It's a heck of a lot more saw for pretty close tho the same $$.

as an aside Safety on the euro style sliders is second to none.


Well said Cliff, $4500 is getting a little steep for a cabinet saw,I dont care how many brakes it has, it would be interesting to know exactly how many accidents this thing has stopped, as in what percentage of Saw Stop owners have tripped the brake with a finger or arm, im guessing less that one percent, but would be interesting to find out.

[Jim Becker]

How is it that Grizzly can shipped a 5hp 10" saw for a 143.00 and the other is how much?4

Grizzly does hugh volume with their shipping partners. Sawstop does not.

[Mike Cutler]

Mac.

I can't tell you that your "total package" is worth all of that $$$. I've seen the Sawstop, it's an impressive machine even without the braking system. For an American style cabinet saw it's in a league of it's own. The next step up from there is an Oliver, or a Minimax cabinetsaw. They are both even more $$$. Then euro style sliders.

Compare the cost of the saw delivered only. The rest of that stuff was going to be needed regardless of the saw you purchased.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

If you do a lot of sheet goods then a Euro slider is better no question.

I got some pictures I need to post that put an altogether duifferent spin on that notion.

Tiny little pieces with supremely accurate involved compound angles cut to tolerances of less than .005 and angular tolerances of less than a couple decimal places. All thanks to my huge slider. I love this thing for short stroke accuracy and repeatability.

[Steven DeMars]

Why not wait until the first "failure" of this system makes it to court and becomes public knowledge. I would think at that point the price will fall rather quickly. $4,500.00 for "total piece of mind is one thing, but $4,500.00 is a lot for "the safest thing available" . . . .

Optional air bags completely cocooning you in a vehicle "are" available, but they are not selling too well.

Why, most of us have experienced an accident and walked away un-injured and alive. Reduces your level of fear somewhat.

Now loosing a finger, that is a different thing . . . .

[Joe Jensen]

lol....a cheaper alternative:

DON'T STICK YOUR FINGERS IN THE SAW!!!!

Gee, if you had only told the 60,000 people each year who make the mistake.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I am with you Mike....$5k for a saw and no Euro slider....you gotta be kiddin'.

[Joe Jensen]

I wonder how many people each of us know who have made a mistake and gotten their finger in the saw?
1) Me, when I was 14 years old (30 years ago) tried to cut a piece way too small. Stupid mistake. I was lucky that the blade was only up 1/4" above the table, so I only made hamburger of the end of one finger. I have full motion and use.
2) My dad, 40 years of WW experience. A knot came loose, board kicked back, pulled finger into saw
3) Work friend #1, cut three fingers off when 14 years old. Was able to have them reattached, limited range of motion on one finger but all joints work. The other two fingers have the last two joints fused. I think he had like 10 surgeries.
4) Work friend #2, cut three fingers off by dragging hand over blade. Was able to have them reattached. I look at the picture of his hand without fingers at least once a year to remind me to be safe.
5) Work friend #3, had a back spasm which caused him to put his thumb in the saw. Not sure if he will have full motion.
6) My brother, board kicked back, got hand in saw, will have full motion, but no finger nail.

All these folks believed they were safety concious, all thought they were smart enough and careful enough to prevent this mistake. Of the 6 people listed above, 3 now have a Sawstop, two have stopped WW, and one is saving agressively to buy a SawStop.

I hope all those who are banking on their ability to never make a mistake are successful, the feeling of the saw blade hitting my bone is something I can still feel 30 years later...joe

[glenn bradley]

I'd check on the freight cost at least. I don't know how far this thing is shipping but my 500 lb saw shipped for $68. That was dirt cheap but still, $450 seems a bit high, eh? Call Fedex and see what 600 lbs costs to ship between the addresses. You're up in the $$$ range of a serious saw. The very cool safety feature aside, I'd ponder awhile.

[Robert Mickley]

I bet it don't ship fedex, could be wrong. Grizzly ships tons of stuff so they get discounts. But it still should cost $450. I didn't look but how far is it shipping Glenn?

[Michael Gibbons]

Are tablesaw accidents inevitable? Norm hasn't used a saw guard,splitter,cover, or Sawstop for neary twenty years and seems to have all digits intact. Altough I have seen hammer bruised fingers, it must be the magic of the NYW.

[Mike Heidrick]

Went to a Woodworker monthly meeting in Peoria IL (maybe 150,000 people) and the club was at Woodcraft for the sawstop semo. About 45 members there. I counted 6 members who had Digits removed. Most of the guys were in their late 60s. All may not be TS related but the two members I asked about their accident when we were looking at the TS after the demo, both happened on a table saw.

Not sure what a "serious saw" is but if a cabint saw is not a serious saw I do not know what one is for a hobbiest. Even a slider still spins a blade like the sawstop. Wait till Sawstop adds a slider, things will get very interesting.

[Jim Becker]

I'd check on the freight cost at least. I don't know how far this thing is shipping but my 500 lb saw shipped for $68. That was dirt cheap but still, $450 seems a bit high, eh? Call Fedex and see what 600 lbs costs to ship between the addresses. You're up in the $$$ range of a serious saw. The very cool safety feature aside, I'd ponder awhile.

Agree. The shipping estimate for my 1600 lb slider is only about $500. And be sure you understand what drop off services that provides...if it's inside delivery, it could actually be a good deal for LTL in a low-volume situation.

[scott kinninger]

Those shipping and handling rates really bug the crap out of me. It seems just another way to make more money.

I bought a BMW 5 years ago, it cost $600 to ship here from Germany. Most recently an F-150, that delivery charge was $500. I'm quite sure that these products weigh more than your saw and take up considerably more space. For $450 they better roll it right into your shop and set it up for you.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Are tablesaw accidents inevitable? Norm hasn't used a saw guard,splitter,cover, or Sawstop for neary twenty years and seems to have all digits intact. Altough I have seen hammer bruised fingers, it must be the magic of the NYW.

I say no to that one. None of my digits have ever come close to a spinning blade of any kind to date and I've been sawing wood since 1970. I am much more dangerous to my hands when working on trucks and cars than I am when woodworking.

I attribute my digits being intact to 3 things....

1. I saw a contractor get his sleeve caught in the blade of a TS when I was young. Happened right at my own house. Made quite an impression on me.

2. I work with saws and power tools EVERY DAY. I never have a chance to get lax or lose concentration.

3. I never look away or let anything distract me when cutting wood on any saw and I stop cutting when the wood wants to do it's own thing.

I know this is no guarantee that I won't get hurt someday, but as long as my concentration is on the ball, my fingers stay where they are.

[Mac Cambra]

Joe Jensen - I guess amongst all of the friends you listed how many disabled the blade guard and splitter? My point being if we could separate the unavoidable accidents from the self induced ones (disabling safety devices) that might be a measurement of the the true risk the user community is exposed to?

If Woodcraft is one of their primary distributors why not couple them into the equation to take advantage of their buying power for shipping services. I tend to agree that this seems to be a way to further inflate profit margins.

I wouldn't be frustrated by this if I didn't want one.......

[Homer Faucett]

Joe Jensen - I guess amongst all of the friends you listed how many disabled the blade guard and splitter? My point being if we could separate the unavoidable accidents from the self induced ones (disabling safety devices) that might be a measurement of the the true risk the user community is exposed to?

If Woodcraft is one of their primary distributors why not couple them into the equation to take advantage of their buying power for shipping services. I tend to agree that this seems to be a way to further inflate profit margins.

I wouldn't be frustrated by this if I didn't want one.......

I agree. I was told by my local Woodcraft that SawStop requires that the saw be delivered to the buyer's home and not to the local WC. That may be incorrect, but it was the owner that told this to me. If that is the case, it certainly does sound like it is SawStop trying to add some extra profit. Maybe I'm incorrect, but cost does not change depending upon extras added (80 lb fence, for example), so the $525 delivery charge sticks in my craw a bit.

As I said before, there has to be a better way to get this delivered at a lower cost. While SS doesn't do the volume that Wilke or Grizzly do, they have to have some substantial shipping volume, even with just one product.

[Mark Visconti]

From their site :
Weights (may vary with motor):530 lbs (table saw only)

635 lbs (with optional fence, 36" rails & table)

685 lbs (with optional fence, 52" rails & table)
Shipping weight is approximately 640lbs (table saw only)

Do some shipping guestimating and we're at 800-850 lbs for the sawstop with the 52" rail and table. There is no information on exactly what the shipping provides. If they'll put it in my basement, it's worth every dime :) Unfortunately, the site doesn't specify if the shipping includes liftgate service or not.

Mark

[Joe Jensen]

Joe Jensen - I guess amongst all of the friends you listed how many disabled the blade guard and splitter? My point being if we could separate the unavoidable accidents from the self induced ones (disabling safety devices) that might be a measurement of the the true risk the user community is exposed to?

If Woodcraft is one of their primary distributors why not couple them into the equation to take advantage of their buying power for shipping services. I tend to agree that this seems to be a way to further inflate profit margins.

I wouldn't be frustrated by this if I didn't want one.......

I know that in 4 of the 6 cases the guard was removed, don't know about the others. I have been using the guard with the Sawstop as it's pretty good, but I've had several situations where I could not use it.

I was just trying to make the point that accidents do happen and I was curious if others knew as many people who made a mistake with a TS. We here a ton of folks here brag about how they never have and never will...joe

[John Shuk]

Not only does Grizzly get discounts. They also use a method of pricing similar to the auto industry. Those close to the warehouse basically subsidize those far from the warehouse. A move I think companies like Sawstop or Laguna or MiniMax might benefit from.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Why not wait until the first "failure" of this system makes it to court and becomes public knowledge.
I'll bet a dollar they will do exactly what Pay Pal does with it's flotilla of litigations.

They settle early out of court with a nondisclosure agreement.