dust collector

[Marc Prudhomme]

what about this unit for my portable dust collector?

HP MINI DUST COLLECTOR http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/gifs/clear.gif
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/logos/cenmach.gif
View more Central Machinery items (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?f=bylogo&logourl=cenmach%2Egif&brand=Central%20Machinery)
1 HP MINI DUST COLLECTOR http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/gifs/clear.gif


Perfect for the shop, work site or garage. This compact unit is as powerful as many stationary collectors.

Filters particles down to 35 microns (half the width of a human hair)
4'' inlet/outlet
914 CFM120V, 6.8 amps, 750 watts; 1 HP; Overall dimensions: 13-1/4'' x 12'' wide, 12'' high; Shipping weight: 21-1/2 lbs.

[Robert Mahon]

Marc,
I am going to buy the Cummins 750 CFM portable today at our local annual "Visiting roadshow". It is priced at $100.00.

It also appears on the Cummins Tool web-site for the same price. I'm sure there will be shipping added but the "Roadshow" doesn't add that.
www.cumminstools.com (http://www.cumminstools.com)

For the sake of saving a $50.00 bill, it might be worth your looking at it.

If you want, I can let you know more after I see the thing.

[Dick Rowe]

I was looking at that same mini unit last week. I have a central system installed in my shop (Grizzly 2hp), but the performance on the far end of the run wasn't working as well as it could.

I decided to get a mini portable unit to handle my bandsaw and Performax 22-44 sander.

I went to the local Harbor Freight store in my area and found the 1hp unit you mention, but the in-store price was $79.99, new and in the box not the $129 listed! Needless to say I bought one, and it worked well on my 22-44 and bandsaw. It is very light, and easy to move from machine to machine.

As an experiment I hooked it up to my Delta lunchbox planer, and it plugged up immediately. Inspection revealed that there is a mesh grate on the inside of the intake port which won't allow bigger chips to pass. I removed the grate and the unit worked great on the planer, but the small bag filled up in a few minutes. I wouldn't recommend it for heavy chip removal, but it will work as long as you understand that the bag capacity is a big-time limitation.

This unit has a lot of suction and runs fairly quiet. Much quieter than my Craftsman shop vac, but a bit louder than my Fein Turbo I.

I would recommend it for a single machine which generates more dust than chips.

[Marc Prudhomme]

I have never owned a DC of any kind so if this is a dumb question I apologize, Can you put bigger bags on them?

[Jim Thiel]

At 35 microns, a good facemask would work better for health reasons. Big chips can be swept up, but the fine stuff will find its way into your lungs.

My .02, your bill is in the mail.

Jim

[Marc Prudhomme]

jim,
What do you recommend for my small shop that wont break the bank?

[Jim Thiel]

I'm not sure what the bank is Marc. I use and like very much Penn State and Jet machines. My preference would be huge gobs of air moving through very fine filters, 1 to half micron.

I also understand the delemma of the dust collector. It doesn't make anything. They can be seen by some as luxuries, even trinkets of the moment. It can be difficult to drop cash on one, but I believe long term the initial cost to be insignificant.

Jim

[Pete Brown]

Marc, what's your budget?

My 2hp Oneida Super Dust Gorilla is great. YOu can get their smaller version with the non-Baldor motor and a different filter for around $800, IIRC.

Many folks consider dust collection to be an afterthought. While everyone's finances are different, I think one should consider the dust collector to be at least as important tool as your other primary tools, and budget accordingly. A good dust collector (and system) can make the difference between enjoying woodworking with clean air, and enjoying blowing potting soil out of your nose every night ;-)

I waited too long to get a dust collector and what a HUGE difference it has made in my shop.

Pete

[Jim Becker]

The 35 microns caught my eye...that raises the price a bit 'cause you'll need to replace the filter bag with a decent one that can do .5 micron or so.

[Dick Rowe]

I agree that the 35 micron spec won't get ALL the dust out of the air that you may want eliminated, but it is still a lot better than nothing at all. Going to 1 or 5 microns raises the prices of all lower-end dust collectors proportionately so there will be an upcharge of some kind to get that performance from any basic machine.

If you are still interested in the portable machines, Penn State makes a 1 micron bag that will fit this unit for $70. It's the one that is listed for their DC3 model.

You also asked about larger bags. The portable units present a few challenges in replacement bag choices in that the bag opening is 4" and designed to go right on the outlet pipe. Most bags I have seen are designed for the big machines and have an 18-20" opening ... these obviously won't work on a portable.

I would suggest that if you are concerned about bag size, you probably should be looking for a bigger unit right away. One of the basic advantages of a portable, in my mind, is that it is ...well ... portable! If you hang a big bag or other capture device on it, you may make it unwieldy to move around in your shop.

[Robert Mahon]

Now you tell me. I just paid $99.99 (+ tax) for a 3/4 HP unit form Cummins. I haven't assembled it yet and won't til this afternoon (I have to replace a thermocouple in the furnace 1st).

Regardless, I have a 2 HP main unit for the Planer, Drum Sander and Jointer. The smaller unit will serve the Cabinet and Band saws. For the airborne stuff, I have a JET ceiling mounted AFS1000.
When sanding I use a face mask.

[Dewayne Reding]

Marc

First of all, I am not a Harbor Freight basher, I am a noob like you. I went to look at this tool last night since the $79.95 price seems like a you can't lose deal. First look at the HF dust collectors. Look closely at the size of the motors and the fan impeller. Now go look at the Delta offerings. These tools have the same cfm ratings. There ain't no way. Somebody is stretching the truth here, and somehow I doubt it is because Delta under rates their equipment. The HF motor was probably rated by the same people that rate Shop Vac motors.

The Delta 1 1/2HP DC barely gets it done. In the end you'll end up buying two pieces of HF equipment, then you'll upgrade the bags which isnt cheap at all. If you don't upgrade the bag, it's worse than nothing because you'll blow fine dust all over the shop. What good is that?

What does HF best DC system cost on sale? I'm guessing that's probably the minimum standard. Add about $80 if it comes with a 30 micron bag. The Delta 1 1/2HP comes with a 1 micron bag. Cheapest I've seen it is $250 and like I said, it barely gets it done, but it does blow clean air. That's what you are trying to beat IMO. Just my .02. Hope I've been helpful as I know what it's like to need equipment while you slowly build a shop.

[Marc Prudhomme]

now Im confused>>>Not really. thanks for the help guys

[Marc Prudhomme]

What about this xxxxx from penn state?

http://www.pennstateind.com/graphics/dc1bxl.jpgRating: none
Code: DC1BXL-1M
Price:$239.95
http://www.pennstateind.com/images/store/tell-a-friend-but.gif (http://www.pennstateind.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=emailafriend&prodcode=DC1BXL-1M)
http://www.pennstateind.com/images/store/catalog-but.gif (http://www.pennstateind.com/catalog/00010.htm)

FREE:8' Duct Hose -- $14.00 value! Shipping Charge $36:$36 Shipping for this item
Continental US Only Quantity: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/graphics/00000001/wishlist-add-but.gif (http://www.pennstateind.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=PSI&Screen=WISHLOGN&BrokAction=ADPR&FromPage=PROD&Product_Code=DC1BXL-1M&Quantity=1&Attributes=1&Wish=1&Category_Code=DC1) http://www.pennstateind.com/store/graphics/00000002/supersale.gif FREE -- 8 ft. duct hose included ($14.00 value).

Our most popular collection system now comes with 1 micron "Vu-thru" bags!! Connects to almost any machine!

Features include:
- "Y" inlet for two 4" connections
- Efficient 1 Hp motor, 110/220 VAC
- 10" impeller now delivers 850 CFM
- Super high filtration 1 micron "Vu-thru" filter bags and band clamps

Note: Dust collectors perform best with 4" diameter duct and machine ports. Performance degrades significantly when duct or ports are less than 3" diameter.

Related Item(s)

[Jake Helmboldt]

Marc, someone mentioned a dust pan. In all seriousness, right now I use a shop vac, dust pan, a good mask, and a shop built air scrubber. I'm deliberating over what move to make in the DC arena, but I have chosen not to go the route you are talking about.

My thinking is much like Dewayne's; you'll spend money to upgrade to a sub-micron bag or filter, then find the capacity isn't adequate for planer/jointer work, then find the CFM is actually not what they advertise and is inadequate, and then you'll end up buying other DC, and eventuyally will have spent what you would on a cyclone.

FWW magazine rated 1.5hp units a few months back (Portable Dust Collectors, Issue 183) and a general DC article (Dust Collection Demystified, Issue 188). I would look for a copy of that to see a) how the tools rated, and b) their general thoughts on smaller units and how best to utilize them. The Penn State, if I recall, did not fare well. FWW's site has the individual reviews along with CFM's under their tool review section.

JH

[Marc Prudhomme]

Well everyones advice has been helpful.This is the way I am looking at it.Something is better than nothing.I will probably go with the cheapest 800 cfm or higher with a 1 micron bag I can find and then upgrade later.I do plan on putting an air filter for the other particles in the air.This should be more than sufficient for the amount of woodworking I will be doing as a beginner with a 2 year old to entertain.I will probably be in the basesment about 5 hours a week if I am lucky.
Thanks and ill let you know how I made out.
Marc

[Dewayne Reding]

Marc

Actually, in some cases something may NOT be better than nothing. You have to get the microns down to a safe level. Otherwise your just stirring up the bad stuff, and potentially breathing in more than you would have if you used no DC at all. A fine filter on a good shop vac is probably better than a cheap DC with a 35 micron bag. I can't prove it though.

[Marc Prudhomme]

I did say 1 micron bag
Marc

Actually, in some cases something may NOT be better than nothing. You have to get the microns down to a safe level. Otherwise your just stirring up the bad stuff, and potentially breathing in more than you would have if you used no DC at all. A fine filter on a good shop vac is probably better than a cheap DC with a 35 micron bag. I can't prove it though.

[Pete Brown]

I agree that the 35 micron spec won't get ALL the dust out of the air that you may want eliminated, but it is still a lot better than nothing at all.

Actually, it is better only from a mess standpoint, not at all from a health standpoint. A dust collector with a 35 micron filter will be constantly stirring up the finest particles and sending them airborne.

I still think the Oneida dust gorilla (http://www.oneida-air.com/products/systems/gorilla/gorilla.htm) is a good buy, and not a much more than a decent bag collector with upgraded bag and an air filter (something mentioned in this thread). The super gorilla is even better, getting you down to .2 microns. Both move around 1300 cfm. There are other cyclones too (Grizzly, Penn State, Clear Vue) that will also do well for you.

Pete

[Jim Becker]

I agree that the 35 micron spec won't get ALL the dust out of the air that you may want eliminated, but it is still a lot better than nothing at all.

Only in respect to chip collecting to make it easier to keep the floor clear. The truly dangerous dust particles are smaller than 35 microns by a long shot, hence the need for better filtration.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Marc, the 800CFM, unless validated by testing, is just a number thrown on the product literature. I strongly suggest you look at the FWW article I mentioned since you will see that many of the 1.5 HP DCs dropped immediately (or started out below) 800 CFM, which is the magic number for moving the dust and chips. I don't think a 1HP unit exists which will actually move 800CFM when in use.

Also, you mention entertaining a 2-yr old. Is this kid gonna be in the shop environment while you are working? If so then you need the absolute best DC you can get. That has asthma and respiratory issues written all over it.

JH

[Pete Brown]

Also, you mention entertaining a 2-yr old. Is this kid gonna be in the shop environment while you are working? If so then you need the absolute best DC you can get. That has asthma and respiratory issues written all over it.

Good point. Now that I think of it, this shop is in the basement, so those fine particles will get *all* over the house. If you're going to work in the house like that, you need way above average dust collection, especially with children around. If not, it will float upstairs, but also be all over your clothes (unless you strip downstairs - don't go there <g>) etc.

It's even worse if you have carpets upstairs. They will hold all the fine particles and you'll kick them up every time you walk around. We just replaced all the old carpets in this house with wood (actually bamboo) flooring, and my allergies have really improved.

I know, "it's just dust", but it's a bigger deal than most people seem to think. Oh, and forget exotics and things like cedar unless you have excellent DC.

Pete

[Jon Shively]

On another forum, a similar question was raised, and the following website provided. I have not read the entire thing, that is for tonight, but the beginning addressed the issues I have been hearing about and wanting to address with my new shop and dust collecting. I am guilty of buying tools and breathing the dust. In fact, my lungs weren't even considered, it was the finish and cleanliness of my shop!! Am learning new things every day! Here it is if you are interested.

http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

[Glen Franchuk]

I use a 1 hp dust collector in my garage/shop and move it from tool to tool. I've upgraded the upper bag to a 0.5 micron bag but still found that I was getting some dust movement. I built a box to house an old multispeed furnace fan and hung this from the ceiling and now find minimal dust setting after working all day. This fan runs continous while I'm working and then on a timer that is set to run for 1 hour after I leave the garage. The fan circulates the garage air through 2 - 0.5 micron furnace filters. Covering the filters with a paper towel allows the filters to last longer because I just change to paper after a day's use. The paper is always well coated with fine dust so I know this is filtering much of the dust the I would be breathing. This is a cheap addition to any system as the fans are usually thrown away when furnaces are replaced for most places will give them away when asked.

[glenn bradley]

Echoing Jim's statements; I finally got a small 1HP Delta a couple years ago and the difference in my environment is immeasurable. I uttered the famous "what was I waiting for". If you have nothing to handle the situation yet, I would get 'something' knowing that a larger system is in your future.

If your situation permits, find someone who is just getting started and maybe the 'something' you get for now can find a new home when you're ready to take another step(?). That way you won't wait a year or so to do 'something' and your initial small outlay won't be money wasted.

Several small portables are in the $100 range and will control the chips. For long term health problem avoidance, you'll need more. That being said, I have the luxury of working with the garag . . er, shop roll up door open most of the year which helps. I don't however fool myself into thinking that that invisible stuff isn't finding it's way into my lungs.

P.s. It sure is easier spending your money than it is spending mine ;-)

[Robert Mahon]

This is a bit long but may provide a better understanding of what we are dealing with regarding "Dust Collectors".

There are 3 seperate and distinct components in a dust collecting system; the blower, the bag/filter and the plumbing. And they work in concert to provide a system.

1. A large stationary dust collector requires plumbing, generally a combination of smooth rigid tubing and ribbed flex tubing. This plumbing dramatically reduces the blower's ability to move air. Keep in mind these blowers are centrifugal, not positive displacement air handlers. There's a little thing known as "Laminar flow" that narrows the conductor and disrupts movement of any fluid through it. Velocity has a very large affect on the laminar flow and will reduce the effective flow area of the channel to a great degree.

2. A number of smaller dust collector units attached closely to a machine will reduce the amount of plumbing needed, thereby reducing laminar flow and the resultant loss of CFM.

3. CFM is a relatively arbitrary value and can be manipulated to suit whatever the manufacturer wants to claim.

4. SCFM is a more proper standard and more closely reflects what the system is truly capable of moving. At the exit of the blower having no restrictions. I've not seen this used by any manufacturer of the dust collector's we Woodworkers normally purchase.

Using the above, an argument could be made for using numerous smaller dust collectors versus a single large unit when it comes to air handling. If this be true, an argument for using different Micron rated filter bags is logical. For Sanders, use a very fine bag/filter. A tablesaw can be used with a medium bag/filter. Jointers and Planers can be used with more open bags/filters. In other words; the finer the influent, the better the filter must be.

Now, to compound the issue; the Micron ratings claimed by the manufacturers are generally Nominal ratings, which are again arbitrary. None of the bags normally associated with our dust collectors claim Absolute ratings. Consequently, if I were to say the rough bag on my stationary dust collector is rated at 0.25 Microns, I could not be proven wrong. The key is what percentage is associated with the rating.
A bag rated 1 Micron at 99% efficiency is a good bag. A bag rated 0.25 Micron at 10% efficiency is not. Furthermore, a bag's efficiency improves with use because the dust captured will create a "Filter cake" on the surface, creating smaller and smaller passages for air to pass through. Unfortunately, this reduces the bag's ability to pass air, again reducing air movement.

The point of all this is that we, as Woodworkers, must take what is available to us knowing the ratings are arbitrary and not always reflective of what the real abilities are. Regardless of argument, the dust collectors we use are more suited to reducing the need to sweep than they are to preserving our health. A real, industrial, dust collector made by people such as Torit, do a fine job of reducing the junk we breathe. BUT, they are also very expensive.

Bottom line:
Almost any system that collects the by-product of our work is better than none. As long as we don't fool ourselves into believing we are breathing clean air when we are indulging our hobby/vocation.

[Greg Funk]

There's a little thing known as "Laminar flow" that narrows the conductor and disrupts movement of any fluid through it.

2. A number of smaller dust collector units attached closely to a machine will reduce the amount of plumbing needed, thereby reducing laminar flow and the resultant loss of CFM.

3. CFM is a relatively arbitrary value and can be manipulated to suit whatever the manufacturer wants to claim.

4. SCFM is a more proper standard and more closely reflects what the system is truly capable of moving. At the exit of the blower having no restrictions. I've not seen this used by any manufacturer of the dust collector's we Woodworkers normally purchase.

Bottom line:
Almost any system that collects the by-product of our work is better than none. As long as we don't fool ourselves into believing we are breathing clean air when we are indulging our hobby/vocation.

Robert,

It is pretty clear from your statements above that you don't have a solid understanding of the science behind air flow in general and dust collection in particular. It simply isn't true that only industrial dust collectors can improve the air we breathe. For those interested in knowledgeable discussions on this topic, including instructions on building cost effective dust collection systems, Bill Pentz has put together an informative web site (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm). Companies like Oneida also provide a line of high quality dust collectors for industrial and hobby applications.

Greg

[Art Mann]

1. Laminar flow is what you want in a dust collector. It is turbulent flow that increases the static pressure and decreases air flow rate.

4. Unrestricted air flow, which you define as SCFM :confused: , is what DC vendors use to rate their machines. This quoted CFM rating is indeed of little value in comparing equipment. It is the air flow that can be sustained at a given static pressure level that is important. The only way to really predict the performance of a dust collector is to obtain the CFM vs. static pressure performance curve for the machine. Comparing performance curves between competing machines is the only worthwhile way to compare performance on paper. You can use worksheets from various companies like Delta or Bill Pentz's website to estimate the SP value for a given duct system and then use the performance curve to predict overall system performance.

I don't buy the idea of using different filters for different machines. While sanding probably produces the largest amount of very fine dust, all power machines put out enough fine dust to make me want to use the best filter everywhere.

I also don't buy the idea that home shop dust collectors can't effectively remove harmful fine dust particles from the atmosphere. There are volumes of independant studies all over the place that have established the effectiveness of such systems. There are even guys who have posted on this board who are doing studies right now using sophisticated instruments to quantify the performance of various DC systems. Do an extensive search and you will find the threads.

Pardon me for being so blunt, but you really need to verify your facts. I just couldn't leave this information unchallenged.

Art

[Robert Mahon]

All,

I appreciate the comments but had no idea my simple explanation would be met with as much knowledge as it has.

For the record:
I have been intimately involved with fluid filtration for over 40 years, in Engineering and management capacities, working with gaseous and liquid medias. Due to this, I perhaps take for granted that certain specifics are known to the people I am speaking to. Forgive me for that.

For clarification:
As filtration is an exact science, many influences are to be considered when developing filtration systems.
In my attempt at brevity, it is quite possible I made comments that are not easily understood or were not clearly stated. However, I did not state DC systems were of no value. Merely that there is not a "1 size fits all" scenario.

The laminar flow reference was perhaps a misnomer, again for the sake of brevity, but was used as a reference to the disruptive flow within a conductor along it's borders, which effectively reduces the flow area in direct proportion to the velocity of the media flowing through it and the length of it. This restriction will be far greater in a flexible hose than it will be in a smooth tube. Thus the reference to dedicated air-handlers and filters.

The reference to CFM, SCFM, Absolute and Nominal ratings are factual and undeniable. They also apply to specific areas and components within a system.

Now, let me try to clarify the thoughts.
ALL filters will experience reductions in air flow in direct proportion to their ability to collect particles, which impinge on the orifices of the element and restrict flow. The finer the filter, the shorter the useful life between cleanings or replacement per given area. All filters will restrict flow to some degree. This is known as Delta P (differential pressure), which reference the pressure upstream and downstream of the element. Basically, the finer the filter, the greater the Delta P. Delta P can be reduced proportionately by increasing the flow area of the filter element.

Efficiency is defined as the element's ability to collect contaminate from the influent stream. If 1,000 one Micron particles are removed for every 1,200 one Micron particles in the influent, the filter is said to be 83% efficient. If the results of the test are obtained at 1,000 CFM, you can be assured they will be somewhat different at 1,500 CFM (SCFM is Standard Cubic Feet per Minute, which is more specifc but will not be explored here). In short; particles moving in an air flow of 1,000 CFM will impinge in a filter of 1,000 square inches better than if pushed through an element of 750 square inches. The Delta P will also increase.

The testing is quite involved and requires some fairly technical equipment.

As a side; use of a centrifugal or "Cyclone" seperator will be much more effective on larger particles prone to drop-out than they will the smaller particles, which tend to remain airborne. It's a function of mass and velocity.

There was no slight intended to companies such as Oneida. It is merely my unfamiliarity with them that caused my omission of them.

The point of all this is that dust collection is relative to each application. It is not practical to install a filter capable of removing dust particles if all you throw at it is rocks and bottle-caps. In short; a system's proper application is relative to what is required of it.

[Jim Becker]

As a side; use of a centrifugal or "Cyclone" seperator will be much more effective on larger particles prone to drop-out than they will the smaller particles, which tend to remain airborne. It's a function of mass and velocity.

Question...how do you account for the fact that those of us using quality cyclones are finding minimal fines in the filters over long periods of time? Even using my drum sander makes little difference in the interval I clean my Oneida filter cartridge and fines bin...about twice a year for this weekend woodworker. Only the smallest of particles appear to be getting to the sub-micron filter. What is the particle size threshold you feel will continue on through the air stream, rather than drop out?

[Greg Funk]

SCFM is a more proper standard and more closely reflects what the system is truly capable of moving. At the exit of the blower having no restrictions. I've not seen this used by any manufacturer of the dust collector's we Woodworkers normally purchase.

...The reference to CFM, SCFM, Absolute and Nominal ratings are factual and undeniable. They also apply to specific areas and components within a system.



In the context of dust collection systems where the air pressures are very close to atmospheric there is not much difference between SCFM and CFM. SCFM stands for Standard Cubic Feet per Minute and simply specifies CFM at a particular pressure, temperature and humidity, typically 14.7PSIA, 68F and 0% RH.

SCFM does not refer to measurements taken at a specific area. Any misleading claims made for CFM can also be made for SCFM.

As Art mentioned above the only way to make meaningful comparisons is to look at the CFM vs static pressure curves for the system. Oneida, ClearVue and Grizzly all have dust collection systems in the 2-3HP range with good performance suitable for a hobby shop.

Greg

[Marc Prudhomme]

If I wasnt confused before,I am now

[Jim Becker]

If I wasnt confused before,I am now
Yea, I can appreciate that. SO...the answer to your original question is: yes you should have a dust collection system and it should be the best you can afford. If you can't do a cyclone system, then buy a quality 1.5 (120v) or 2hp (240v) single stage (bag filter/canister filter) system and upgrade the filter bags if it's a bag system and doesn't come with 5 micron or better filter media. Move it between machines and keep the hose short. Wear personal protection when you can, and especially when working with manufactured materials such as MDF.

Grizzly, Jet, Delta and Penn State all have good products. The "2hp" HF system also gets good comments from folks as long as the filter bags are replaced with quality media as mentioned above.

[Robert Mahon]

Is your cyclone of the 2 stage variety? If so, the 1st stage will catch the fines quite nicely and the final stage will see few particles.
My statements are targeted to single stage cyclone dust collectors and/or non-cyclone models.

Obviously, this is a subject of many facets and includes references to myriad systems. As I said, there is no "1 size fits all" answer.

Art is correct in that one must look at the performance curves of any/all system(s) to obtain a true perspective of their comparative abilities.

The single point I was trying to make is that the application should be reviewed before making a decision as to which system will be most suitable for a particular application. In my case, it is easier for me to use a smaller 30 Micron bag filter for the machines making large particles. It requires that I empty a smaller, easily accessed bag rather than move equipment to gain access to the larger DC.

All you say is true: "you should have a dust collection system and it should be the best you can afford. If you can't do a cyclone system, then buy a quality 1.5 (120v) or 2hp (240v) single stage (bag filter/canister filter) system and upgrade the filter bags if it's a bag system and doesn't come with 5 micron or better filter media. Move it between machines and keep the hose short. Wear personal protection when you can, and especially when working with manufactured materials such as MDF".

Also, I have not seen a comment made that cannot be applied to this subject.

Filtration and air flow are 2 distinct subjects that must be considered and how they will work in concert when designing a system. You can move something without a filter but you cannot filter without moving something.

I, for the life of me, cannot fathom why there has been so many challenging statements.

[Mark Mowrey]

Hello all. I am new here and researching Harbor Freight's mini dust collector by Central Machinery brought me to this site. This dust collector is currently on sale, at least in my area, for $79.99 and has peaked my interest for a small shop. I have been looking at dust collectors since I just barely missed a 1 1/2 hp Penn State Industries collector with 1 micron bags at an auction. I called $180 as the auctioneer called "SOLD $175."

Now, I know this Harbor Freight collector will nowhere come close to the Penn State but I, like others here, am wondering how well it will work. In my research for info on this machine, I have found this review of one that appears to be a twin, albeit a 220v twin. Would this make it a fraternal twin?

http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/sherwoodFM-150.htm

The reviewer provides an explanation for such a high flow rating for the size of machine:


What allows this unit to be so small but still accept a standard 4" dust hose? The answer is the motor. The FM-150 uses a universal brush motor rated at 1HP. Yes, this means the motor is going to be noisier than your regular induction motor, but also means the overall size of the unit is greatly reduced, because the smaller universal motor can deliver more power on a power-versus-size ratio.

Harbor Freight's machine even has the keyholes for mounting on the wall like the Sherwood.

My research has also discovered what appears to be another twin to the Harbor Freight collector. If you include the Sherwood FM-150 in the review, I guess the Penn State Industries DC5 (http://www.pennstateind.com/store/dc5-5.html) would be a triplet. I am going off of looks here since there is not much info on the PSI website. They look to be identical machines except for the bags.

My thinking has led me to believe that the Harbor Freight Mini Dust Collector with Penn State Industries one micron bag (http://www.pennstateind.com/store/bc3-1v.html) might not be a half bad portable dust collector for a total price of about $150. Of course, the solution for one may not be the solution for another. As it turned out, the Harbor Freight store I went to yesterday was out of stock on this item. I did, however, get a rain check.

[Dick Rowe]

Mark,

I responded to the initial poster who was asking if anyone had experience with this HF unit. I quickly got 'hammered' because this device wouldn't pass white room specifications .... and then the whole thread turned into a physics lesson.:eek:

I purchased this unit to augment my centrally installed 2hp Grizzly system which didn't perform well at the end of a long piped run. I was basically looking for a small unit I could use with my Performax 22-44 sander, and my Grizzly bandsaw.

I have been pleased with the unit in the month that I have owned it. As a single machine device it really has more than enough power to do a good job on any tool. As I mentioned earlier, the sound level is somewhere between my loud Craftsman and quiet Fein shop vacs.. quite acceptable in a standard shop device, but you will probably be wearing some type of hearing protection anyway?

After using it a while I found that the bag that comes with the unit (in addition to not being able to trap all the bacteria in my shop!) is a little small, and only empties through the top 4" opening. Neither of these complaints are debilitating, but I did invest in the 1 micron Penn State bag which is about twice as big, has a plastic window in it so you can check on how full it is, and has a zipper opening on the bottom which will greatly improve emptying efficiency.

As I researched new bags I noticed that Woodcraft has a bag that would work on this unit which is rated at 5 microns. Priced at about $25 this may be an option for you ... unless of course you are hung up on those bacteria.

For $80 and a bag upgrade, I have been very pleased with this unit.

My $0.02

[Mark Mowrey]

Dick,

Thank you for your affirming response. I would thank you even if it wasn't affirming because all the information I can get, positive and negative, is helpful. Prior to my initial post and base upon the information referenced in that post(and this entire thread), I had my mind made up that I would try this collector. Hopefully, I too, will become a proud user of a Harbor Freight 1HP Mini Dust Collector. A lot of the work I do is with melamine so I will definately be upgrading bags, most likely to one with a 1 micron rating. My shop is located in the garage and needs to be mobile. Therefore, I will have no problem moving the dust collector from tool to tool. I can only work on one at a time anyhow and usually don't jump back and forth between the machines this will be working with.

As far as sound levels are concerned, I do wear hearing protection for nearly everything I do in the shop. I have been using custom molded earplugs (http://www.earinc.com/p1-nonelectronic.php) since I started shooting sporting clays and have become very protective of my hearing. I rarely run a sander or bandsaw without protecting my ears(and wearing a respirator). If it is more quiet than a shop vac, it will be an improvement.

I hope the information referenced in my last post will be of benefit to the thread to help others make their decisions on what is right for them.

Thanks again