Jet/Tormek - Slow Speed Sharpener finished edge quality?

[Ron Crusee]

Hello I am considering getting a Jet or Tormek sharpener and would like to know if the quality of the edge directly from the machine is considered ready to go for fine joinery (chisels), planing, etc. or does it require further refinement?

[Mike Henderson]

Most people use a fine stone to hone their chisels and plane blades that are sharpened on a Tormek or equivalent. But I have to ask, "Why purchase a Tormek (or equivalent)? Unless there's a lot of people in your shop, it's a very expensive tool that doesn't get a lot of use by one person. You can easily sharpen all your tools on waterstones. Generally, you'll need at least one waterstone for finshing the edge even if you use a Tormek. Go ahead an buy one or two more (and the LV MK II jig) and save the money you would spend on the Tormek and all the jigs that go with it.

Mike

[added note] Just as a side note, unless you have place to set up the Tormek and leave it set up, the hassel of getting it out and setting it up discourages many people from using it.

[One more added note] A Tormek or equivalent is great for removing a lot of metal. At school, they use them because the students beat up the chisels and plane blades. The aide takes the lot and sets up the Tormek to sharpen them all at one time - then hones them on a water stone. Works well in that application. But as a single worker in my shop, I don't sharpen all of my chisels and plane blades at one time, nor do they ordinarily have big nicks and gouges in the edges.
It's nice to have access to a Tormek if you just bought a bunch of old chisels and want to sharpen the lot. But even then, you have to flatten the backs and that really can't be done on the Tormek. Some people say that you can do that on the side of the Tormek wheel, but people I know who have tried it report that the back is not flattened but rounded - maybe they couldn't hold it well to the stone. Most people flatten the back of a chisel or plane blade on water stones, diamond plates, or sandpaper. Derek did a good tutorial on that here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=49164).
Also, you'll need something to flatten and round the Tormek stone. The school uses a diamond stone. I don't know what else is available but figure that into the total cost also.

[Bernhard Kühnen]

[added note] Just as a side note, unless you have place to set up the Tormek and leave it set up, the hassel of getting it out and setting it up discourages many people from using it.[/quote]

I can confirm that Mike. I have a Tormek but since I use Waterstones I have never used it again. Even when changing the angle I use the 240 before setting up the Tormek.

[Wilbur Pan]

Most people use a fine stone to hone their chisels and plane blades that are sharpened on a Tormek or equivalent. But I have to ask, "Why purchase a Tormek (or equivalent)?
This is the wrong forum, but I bought a Tormek system to deal with turning chisels and gouges, as well as for chisels with round profiles. I did not have much luck trying to sharpen them freehand with waterstones.

In the flat blade world, the Tormek/Jet system is a good way to regrind a blade to a specified bevel angle in a highly repeatable manner. Although I agree that there are less expensive ways to do so.

I primarily still use waterstones alone for my chisels and plane blades. If I use the Tormek on them first, I'll still use my waterstones for final honing.

[Steven Wilson]

I use my Tormek for turning tools (edge is fine enough for almost all turning tool uses), reestablishing the edge on most chisels and plane irons (some chisels need a flat grind so use something else), shaping carving tools, and as a final edge for pedestrian uses (chisels used for rough work, scrub plane irons, etc). For some tools that really need a flat grind (mortise chisel) I'll use a stationary belt sander and for drastically reshaping the grind on turning tools I'll use a high speed grinder. In general, for honing and resharpening tools that have a decent grind on them I use Shapton stones, oil stones (carving tools and when the shop is really cold), and/or a strop. The few, very fine japaneese chisels I have only see the Shapton stones. I really like the precision of the Tormek and the slight hollow grind that it gives to most of my chisels and plane irons. With the slight hollow grind I find it fairly easy to freehand sharpen/hone those blades on the Shapton stones. If you learn to freehand sharpen chisels and plane irons you'll find it very fast to bring an edge back. I learned to sharpen freehand from my carving instructor.

[Andrew Homan]

I really like the precision of the Tormek and the slight hollow grind that it gives to most of my chisels and plane irons. With the slight hollow grind I find it fairly easy to freehand sharpen/hone those blades [...]. If you learn to freehand sharpen chisels and plane irons you'll find it very fast to bring an edge back.

I agree with that completely. I keep my Tormek set up so I don't worry about setup time as others here do. I have found that the slight hollow grind makes later freehand sharpening on waterstones a breeze. Yes, you can get the hollow grind on a grinder, but I find it easier to get exactly what I want on the Tormek, and I find it relaxing to use, trickling water and little noise, as opposed to a grinder, with sparks, safety glasses required, noise, worry about burning the blade's edge, etc. And after the one session with the Tormek, I can get dozens of super quick honing sessions on a waterstone without any time lost to jigs.
I think that the Tormek combined with a 6000 or 8000 grit waterstone is an efficient, if expensive, system.
-Andy

[Mike Henderson]

This is the wrong forum, but I bought a Tormek system to deal with turning chisels and gouges, as well as for chisels with round profiles. I did not have much luck trying to sharpen them freehand with waterstones.
Wilbur indirectly brings up a point - sharpening curved tools like carving gouges. I have a technique I use that I think works very well for curved carving tools. It won't work for turning tools. In any case, if you have any interest, I wrote up a paper on what it is and how to build it here (http://members.cox.net/mnh-overflow/Papers/SharpeningCarvingTools.pdf). Just FYI.

Mike

[added note] The paper says to use tripoli compound but I now use the green honing compound from LV.

[Andrew Homan]

I now use the green honing compound from LV.

It's good stuff! I recently switched to using it on the Tormek suede wheel.
-Andy

[Ron Crusee]

Thanks for the advise. I have the space to keep it set up full time. I'm considering because I don't sharpen regular enough to get good at it. Maybe I should start... I don't enjoy sharpening much either. Figured a Tormek system would get the job done quickly and consistently so I could get back to woodworking...

[Wilbur Pan]

Wilbur indirectly brings up a point - sharpening curved tools like carving gouges. I have a technique I use that I think works very well for curved carving tools. It won't work for turning tools. In any case, if you have any interest, I wrote up a paper on what it is and how to built it here (http://members.cox.net/mnh-overflow/Papers/SharpeningCarvingTools.pdf). Just FYI.

Mike

[added note] The paper says to use tripoli compound but I now use the green honing compound from LV.
Hi Mike,

That's certainly an interesting approach. I will say that I was perfectly happy with my waterstones sharpening my plane blades and chisels until I took my first woodturning course. Stupid woodturning -- why does it have to be so much fun??!?!?!? :D :D :D :D

But I think that the best lesson for me was that waiting to buy a Tormek until I absolutely needed a solution for sharpening turning tools paid off. Otherwise, I think I would be doing all of my sharpening on the Tormek, and never would have learned how to sharpen flat blades freehand on waterstones.

[Ken Milhinch]

Since I bought my Tormek, I have relegated all other sharpening implements to the bin. I use nothing else, and I can shave with my chisels. How much sharper do you want them ?

[Richard Keller]

Since I bought my Tormek, I have relegated all other sharpening implements to the bin. I use nothing else, and I can shave with my chisels. How much sharper do you want them ?

Lee Valley had some interesting research in their technical bulletins a few years back showing how using an 8000x water stone followed by their green honing compound produces an edge noticeably sharper than the average razor. :) :) :) :) :)

[Ken Milhinch]

Richard,

That may well be the case, but do woodworkers really need that level of sharpness ? I personally think many people get way too anal about degrees of sharpness.

[Jim Young]

Ron, to answer your original question, yes the Tormek produces a fine quality edge ready to hit the wood. I have both water stones and the Tormek and since getting the Tormek have found that even I can make a blade sharp. My planes work sooo much better now. I'm not saying that water stones won't get your blades sharp, what I am saying is that for me the Tormek works much better. Since I don't spend that much time in the shop I never really had much time with the water stones to learn how to sharpen well.

Now for turning, kind of a side subject in this thread, I strictly use the Wolverine system. The Tormek takes a little to long to set up and the Wolverine system seems to work better for turning tools.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

[james capozzi]

Hello I am considering getting a Jet or Tormek sharpener and would like to know if the quality of the edge directly from the machine is considered ready to go for fine joinery (chisels), planing, etc. or does it require further refinement?
hi ron

i have had my tormek for years and never had to "refine" anything when it came off of the grindstone , it is truly mirror sharp .

be warned there is a slight learning curve with either machine !! i can only speak to the tormek , but the video and book that comes with it will dispell any troubles. do yourself a favor and call jeff at sharptools USA you will never regret it

[Andrew Homan]

i have had my tormek for years and never had to "refine" anything when it came off of the grindstone , it is truly mirror sharp.


James,
I also use a Tormek and recommend it, but in my estimation, the blade is not "mirror sharp" off of the grindstone (1000 grit if you use the truing stone), but you might say it is "mirror sharp" off of the honing wheel (especially if you use LV green compound instead of Tormek paste (6000 grit)).

I have also used blades straight off of the grindstone having only removed the burr on a 6000 grit stone but not having further honed the bevel. Indeed it is a sharp cutting edge but it does not last. Using the honing wheel to polish the bevel and remove the burr will give a significantly longer-lasting edge. Using the Tormek in conjunction with higher grit waterstones will bring further improvement. I think that the Tormek grindstone leaves scissor and knife edges ready for work but at the very least, for plane irons and chisels, the honing wheel should be used, recognizing that with very little extra effort on waterstones the edge can be further improved.
-Andy

[Ron Crusee]

Well I went ahead and ordered the Tormek system today. Should see it here by NLT Monday. After reading the discussion here I feel that it will serve my needs well. I'm planning to build a sharpening station/stand and leave it set up full time. Thanks for the responses...

[Andrew Homan]

Well I went ahead and ordered the Tormek system today. Should see it here by NLT Monday. After reading the discussion here I feel that it will serve my needs well. I'm planning to build a sharpening station/stand and leave it set up full time. Thanks for the responses...

Ron, enjoy it.
One tip before you start using it. Tape a small "rare earth" magnet (from Lee Valley, for instance) onto the side of the water tray -- on the outside. It will pull the metallic particles to the side. Easier clean-up than keeping the magnet INSIDE the tray. Don't ask me how I know that!
-Andy

[Ron Crusee]

Andy thanks for the advise. Sounds like a good idea and I already have the neodymium magnets...