So what is 3 Phase going to cost me for a Delta 43-460 shaper

[Mike Heidrick]

I must be out of my __ mind. What is it going to cost me to get this thing up and running??? Man I am SOO dead buying this thing.

$999 shipped - Delta 43-460 from the mind benders at Amazon.
It is 3 phase. I do not even have three phase!!!!
Delta 43-460 1-1/4-Inch Solid Spindle 5 Horsepower Shaper with Micro Adjust Fence, 200/230/460-Volt 3 Phase
Technical Details
5-horsepower, 200/230/460-volt motor provides plenty of power
Poly V-drive system transmits more efficient torque to the spindle
Unitized design of motor, spindle, and height adjustment mechanism for more accuracy
Micro-adjust fence makes set ups quick, esy, and precise
Two-year limited warranty on machines, parts, and accessories
Technical Details

Horsepower: 5 hp
Amps: N/A
Watts out: 6,440
Volts: 200 to 230/460 AC
Phase: Single
Spindle diameter: 1-1/4 in.
Spindle travel: 3 in.
Spindle speed: 7,000 and 10,000 rpm
Table size: 40 in. by 27 in.
Table height: 34 in.
Table construction: Cast iron
Insert opening diameters: 1-3/8, 3, 3-1/2, and 6-3/4 in.
Dust port diameter: 4 in.
Fence size: 5 in. by 16-1/2 in. (x2)
Fence construction: Cast iron/aluminum
Drive type: Belt
Switch type: Push button
Cord type: 3-prong, rubber
Cord length: 8 ft.
Country of manufacture: USA
Grade: Professional
Also included: Wrenches, 1-1/4 in. spindle, table inserts, starting pin
Variable speed: Yes
Spindle brake: No
Dust collection capable: Yes
Cutterhead guide: Yes
Reversing spindle travel: Yes
Double-ended spindle: No
Ball bearing construction: Yes
Blade guard included: Yes
Accepts 1/4 and 1/2 in. bits: Yes
Miter gauge included: No
Other features: N/A
Depth: 40 in.
Width: 27 in.
Height: 50 in.
Tool weight: 456 lbs.
Shipping weight: 480 lbs.
Product: 2 years
Service: None
List Price: $4,693.50
Price: $999.99 FREE SHIPPING
You Save: $3,693.51 (79%)

[lou sansone]

I have the same shaper. the price seems way off. its worth the price you paid, but that list price is a joke.

3 phase is easy... use a static converter and your done. they will cost an additional $200.... not a real big deal. it you go the rotary converter route, it will cost you more like 1 k to get it up and running. I have 3 phase in my shop, so most of my machines are 3 phase anyway.

best wishes
lou

[Rick Lizek]

A VFD from www.factorymation.com (http://www.factorymation.com) is the way to go. Full power compared to a static. Also soft start and infinitely variable speed and able to double the motor's rated speed and priced similar to a static converter.

[David Wilson]

MIke
I recently was asking the same questions about my new (1940) unisaw.
Found out a few things. First, a static phase converter gives you psudo 3 phase power. You will loose about 1/3 of the rated horsepower. These are recomended for ocasional hobby use. Second, a rotary phase converter Will give full power but they are large, noisy, and expensive. Finally, a vfd
Will work but They are an electronic circuit which means they are sensitive to power surges. After working as an electronics tech for almost 40 years, I know what lightning can do to a circuit like this.
I went with a motor swap. The cost was more than a static or vfd but less than a rotary.

[Rick Lizek]

I've been dealing with phase converters for 25 years. Statics are not just for hobbyists. An over powered machine will perform fine at 2/3 the rated power depending on the application, pro shop versus industrial 24 hour use. You can make a rotary for pretty cheap using a slave motor and a static conveter. They aren't very noisy either.
Import VFD's are at the cost of a static and I've never had any lightning issues but if it's a concern you could isolate the unit when not in use. There are many time when a motor swap in not an option such as a direct drive machine. Also the bells and whistles of variable speed and doubling the motors rated speed is a plus. A reeves drive bridgeport is pretty pricey but a step pulley model with a VFD is a lot cheaper and more available. Also variable speed on a shaper is a plus. Doubling the speed is a plus on using router bits as well. Occasional use at higher speeds should not be a problem with the bearings in my experience.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, from a simplistic engineering perspective, change the motor to a single phase unit, and the overload relay and starter if required.

If you need 5 HP for large cutters/very heavy cuts, buy a 5 HP motor, otherwise purchase a 3 HP motor.

The rotary or static converter will use energy which you have to pay for, and it takes up space. Of course if cost is all you're concerned with, go with the least expensive solution.

A variable Frequency drive is a great idea also, purchase one with a single phase input to match your shop voltage and you wil be able to have any speed you want (within reason) while keeping your shaper "stock". The soft start feature and variable speed are worth the price alone.

Regards, Rod.

[Jim Becker]

VFD would likely be at the top of my list, too...and can often be had surplus at very attractive costs.

[Bill Simmeth]

I don't understand the aversion to rotary converters. They aren't very large -- a motor sitting on the floor and a small panel on the wall. As for noise -- it's the sound of an electric motor running. If that level of hum bothers you, stick it in the attic, in a closet, under a stairwell, whatever. Even if you leave it out in the open, the noise of the machine you're powering most certainly will drown it out. Lastly, they aren't particularly expensive or difficult to install. Look at item nbr 280068714511 on *Bay. $269 delivered for a panel from a reputable company. Wire it to a surplus 3-phase motor that with a little effort you should be able to get for $0-50. You now have manufactured 3-phase, your new shaper will run at the power Delta designed it to run at and you can look for more 3-phase machine bargains because most guys are afraid to try it. I went this route and have been pleased. My manufactured leg is within 5% of the supplied legs, so my machines are happy.

[Bruce Page]

I don't understand the aversion to static converters. I have been using one on my turret milling machine and engine lathe, (3 & 5 hp respectively) for at least 15 years. I have run both machines all day, day after day and I have never had any issues with it. They are inexpensive and easy to install.

[Carroll Courtney]

Mike,I vote for the motor change out.But go w/the 3hp.This is big enought for even the demanding cabinet shops.Go to Grainger's web and look for a 3hp 220v single phase TEFC motor.I work w/ VSD's alot at work on a/c equipment,and they are very exspensive to repair.One for a 5hp ,if ever you have a problem, would be consider "disposable:confused: "To many things can go wrong with drives if expose to humidity.My shop is not condition :mad: .I think you got a good deal,so invest alittle more on a motor,by the way I sure like the 1 1/4 spindle. Good luck w/your decision Carroll

[Mike Heidrick]

Tell me more about VFDs and what to buy. I looked into what I think I need called an AC drive as well. Can I size it larger than 5 hp for future growth?

[lou sansone]

I don't understand the aversion to static converters. I have been using one on my turret milling machine and engine lathe, (3 & 5 hp respectively) for at least 15 years. I have run both machines all day, day after day and I have never had any issues with it. They are inexpensive and easy to install.

I agree with bruce. what is the big deal?
lou

[J.R. Rutter]

I ran a static converter for years on a 5 HP Powermatic shaper. Only slowed down on single pass raised panels if the feed rate was too high. As a matter of fact, before I moved into a space with 3 phase, I ran my whole shop off of one 2-5 HP static converter. Dust collector, table saw band saw, shaper, jointer. The more motors spinning, the merrier.

[Paul Greathouse]

A VFD from www.factorymation.com (http://www.factorymation.com) is the way to go. Full power compared to a static. Also soft start and infinitely variable speed and able to double the motor's rated speed and priced similar to a static converter.

Rick, please forgive me for being ignorant to the electrical end of things. I checked out the factorymation website and I'm not sure what to look for. I used their search function and all that turned up under VFD was text panels. Is that what a VFD is?

I'm trying to power a 3 phase powermatic model 180 planer with a 7 1/2hp motor. I kind of understand the static and the rotary but this is the first I have heard of a VFD. Please give me more of a clue as to what to look for on their website.

[Mike Heidrick]

I was looking at the site as well and saw AC Drives. Did not see really any that accepted 1 phase and outputed 3 phase at 5hp. So I guess I may not understand some things as well.

Do you have to buy a AC Drive/ VFD rated for the output motor you will be powering.

Also I would appreciate any info on other sources of VFD products as well.

I have not rulled out static or rotary yet either so if a good deal on one comes along please let me know.

Shaper is 5hp Delta 3-phase that I am trying to power.

[Bruce Page]

They are up to $200 now. I paid $135 for my PAM-600HD.

http://www.phase-a-matic.com/StaticModels&Prices.htm

[Seth Poorman]

I don't understand the aversion to static converters. I have been using one on my turret milling machine and engine lathe, (3 & 5 hp respectively) for at least 15 years. I have run both machines all day, day after day and I have never had any issues with it. They are inexpensive and easy to install.

I have been using a static converter on my Unisaw for years now w/ no issues, but now I have 5hp 3phase Shaper so Im buying a Rotary Phase Converter to run them both, This will give me 100% power that I want for the shaper and saw, ...Bruce when you use static you loose 1/3 of your power. (Its kinda hard to run raised panels w/ less than 5hp unless you climb cut,and that takes extra time)

[David Rose]

Did I miss something? The specs you show say "phase: single", if I read them right.

David

[Mike Heidrick]

Did I miss something? The specs you show say "phase: single", if I read them right.

David

You know I just read that. And I printed it out. Maybe I will end up with a 1 phase shaper after all. It shipped.Who knows what I will get.

[Mike Heidrick]

I have been using a static converter on my Unisaw for years now w/ no issues, but now I have 5hp 3phase Shaper so Im buying a Rotary Phase Converter to run them both, This will give me 100% power that I want for the shaper and saw, ...Bruce when you use static you loose 1/3 of your power. (Its kinda hard to run raised panels w/ less than 5hp unless you climb cut,and that takes extra time)

Let me know which one you choose.

Any deals on your static converter?

[Bill Simmeth]

The Delta model number 43-460 indicates a three phase machine. The 43-455 is the single phase version of this machine.
http://www.deltamachinery.com/index.asp?e=136&p=958
http://www.deltamachinery.com/index.asp?e=136&p=959

[Andrew Shaber]

Just for grins, do the power lines going by your shop have 3 phase? (count the wires 2 wire=1 phase, 3 wire=3 phase) If there is 3 phase, it couldn't hurt to ask the power company about 3 phase power.

[Ed Breen]

when I asked my power company they quoted $1. per foot, and the line is about 1/2 mile from me. I'm sticking with the two statics I use. one for a delta shaper, the other for my griz saw. They've worked so far, why change.
Ed

[Dave Bureau]

Also looking at the ac drives mentioned. saw units for 1-40 hp for just a couple hundred bucks. is this correct or is there some other equipment required. any other information on this would be helpful.
Dave

[Bruce Page]

Bruce when you use static you loose 1/3 of your power. (Its kinda hard to run raised panels w/ less than 5hp unless you climb cut,and that takes extra time)
Yeah, that’s what they say, but I have run dozens of 3ph Bridgeport mills & lathes over the last three decades and I can’t tell any difference between the way they cut metal and the way my machines cut metal. I can take just as heavy of a cut and the machine reacts and sounds exactly the same. I have both my mill and lathe coming off the same converter.

[Mike Heidrick]

I have purchased a G5843 Autogen Static Phase Converter - 3-7hp for $100. I also have the line on a 5hp HVAC (from the top of a Toys R Us building) 184T 3phase motor for $50. Will that be enough for an idler motor? I will get the specs obn the motor soon. I know 7.5 hp would be better but price wise this is Cheap.

So far:
$999 43-460 shaper
$105 SPC
$138 router bit spindles
$$Still need a mobile base

[Alan Trout]

It is really easy to make a rotary phase converter. For many years I owned a machine shop that did not have 3 phase. I made a rotary phase converter. All you have to do is find like a 7 to 10hp 3 phase motor rated at 3450rpm. Buy a stato-phase converter to start the motor with a blade switch rated for the amperage. and then wire your equipment into the roto-phase. I had a seperate 3 phase panel for all of my equipment that was hooked to the roto-phase. It worked great and cost very little. I found the motor at a salvage yard and paid like $10 dollars for the motor. I had to put bearings in it and make a floor mount and cover for the shaft but I had less than $100 dollars in the motor and about $100 dollars for the stato-phase. This was for a 10hp roto-phase. Pretty cheap and a slick setup that was not noisy at all. As the machine shop got bigger I had to get 3phase installed. and at the time cost about 5 grand. But for about 5 years the converter was flawless. For a hobby type shop would last you a lifetime. I am not sure about the AC converters they sound intresting but have personally never used one. Good Luck Alan

[Wes Billups]

Anybody know how much a 3/4" spindle would cost for this? All of my current cutters are 3/4" bore and I really don't want to replace them if I go with this shaper.

Thanks,
Wes Billups

[Bill Simmeth]

Anybody know how much a 3/4" spindle would cost for this?
Amazon has it for $112.
http://www.amazon.com/Delta-43-807-Spindle-Heavy-Shapers/dp/B00004Z01Z