How would you cut this?

[markus shaffer]

I'm at quite a loss as to how to solve this problem and I always get great advice here, so...

I have some EMT running through the middle of a space I am renovating. It's 2" or 2 1/2" diameter. Comes out of one wall about 10 feet before making a 90 degree turn and going into another. There is a cell phone tower on top of the building and the cables running through this are from that tower. Sprint wants over $10,000 to move the conduit!! We've tried to work around these lines and it's still a possiblity, but it would be great if we could just move them next to the wall and box them in. I should point out that these were originally behind a wall and inaccesable, so boxing them back up isn't a problem. As a matter of fact, they would be more accesable now than they were before.

There is enough slack that at they can be pulled apart at the joints. See photo below. The lines inside are much smaller than the conduit itself.

Ideally, I'd like to cut the conduit lengthways and pull the wires out without damaging them. Because there is so much extra space between the cable and the conduit, I thought I might be able to fit some sort sheet metal shears inside without any damage to the cables. Once loose, we could then bundle them neatly and run them along the wall. Originally I was thinking of electric sheet metal shears, but I've never used them. Thus I don't know their capabilities in terms of what they can cut. Also, I don't know how to determine how "guage" size refers to thickness of material. I imagine different materials like steel and aluminum would cut differently due to the different hardness of each material.

Anyway, so in my online search, I've come up with several tools. Price wise, all a far cry from $10,000. We would easily spend up to $1000 on something that would work for this. I was wondering if anyone has experience with either electric shears, sheet metal nibblers or any other tool that might make this feasable to do. Below are a couple links to tools that I thought might work. The nice thing about this also would be that I would end up with a new tool. Granted it's not a woodworking tool, but on occasion I do end up working with sheet metals, so I'd like to buy something that would be a worthwhile investment besides just something that will get this job done.

http://www.hechinger.com/web/catalog/product_detail1.aspx?pid=70114

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=110&pricetype

http://www.toolbarn.com/product/hitachi/CN16SA/


Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If this idea sounds completely boneheaded, please feel free to point that out as well.


-Markus

[Steve Wargo]

Can you just use a circular conduit cutter and make cuts every few inches. Then mover the whole thing in its flexible state to a new location? Probably easier to do than cutting the conduit lengthwise and much less riskier. No chance of damaging the cable inside. Good luck.

[Boyd Gathwright]

Hi Markus,
.... Not quite sure without seeing the job first hand. But, I think if you want a good quality tool for the present and the future you might want to consider one of these. I have one and it is quite heavy duty and heavy. It's just within your price range and it will go up to 10 gauge steel.

http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product3_27_40027_-1_284507_281184_189348_362 (http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product3_27_40027_-1_284507_281184_189348_362)


:)


I'm at quite a loss as to how to solve this problem and I always get great advice here, so...

I have some EMT running through the middle of a space I am renovating. It's 2" or 2 1/2" diameter. Comes out of one wall about 10 feet before making a 90 degree turn and going into another. There is a cell phone tower on top of the building and the cables running through this are from that tower. Sprint wants over $10,000 to move the conduit!! We've tried to work around these lines and it's still a possiblity, but it would be great if we could just move them next to the wall and box them in. I should point out that these were originally behind a wall and inaccesable, so boxing them back up isn't a problem. As a matter of fact, they would be more accesable now than they were before.

There is enough slack that at they can be pulled apart at the joints. See photo below. The lines inside are much smaller than the conduit itself.

Ideally, I'd like to cut the conduit lengthways and pull the wires out without damaging them. Because there is so much extra space between the cable and the conduit, I thought I might be able to fit some sort sheet metal shears inside without any damage to the cables. Once loose, we could then bundle them neatly and run them along the wall. Originally I was thinking of electric sheet metal shears, but I've never used them. Thus I don't know their capabilities in terms of what they can cut. Also, I don't know how to determine how "guage" size refers to thickness of material. I imagine different materials like steel and aluminum would cut differently due to the different hardness of each material.

Anyway, so in my online search, I've come up with several tools. Price wise, all a far cry from $10,000. We would easily spend up to $1000 on something that would work for this. I was wondering if anyone has experience with either electric shears, sheet metal nibblers or any other tool that might make this feasable to do. Below are a couple links to tools that I thought might work. The nice thing about this also would be that I would end up with a new tool. Granted it's not a woodworking tool, but on occasion I do end up working with sheet metals, so I'd like to buy something that would be a worthwhile investment besides just something that will get this job done.

http://www.hechinger.com/web/catalog/product_detail1.aspx?pid=70114

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=110&pricetype

http://www.toolbarn.com/product/hitachi/CN16SA/


Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If this idea sounds completely boneheaded, please feel free to point that out as well.


-Markus

[Rob Russell]

Markus,

I wouldn't touch those lines if I were in your shoes. You're asking for trouble. The conductors were run in conduit for a reason, either because the type of conductors required the protection or the engineer specified raceway to protect the conductors because s/he felt that was needed given the installation..

IMO, you're opening yourself up to major hassles with Sprint on this - and they have access to a lot more lawyers than you.

Rob

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I have a pair of hand cutters that work the same wey the chicago tools you linked to works - 'cept it's manual not power.

I like that dual cutter head better than other's I've had.

I'ge get a Milwaukee tool before I went to Harbor freight. You can not go wrong with Milwaukee.

The nibblers you linked to would be OK too but you gotta match the Gage of the material to the cutter.

To know the gage you need to measure the wall thickness and then Google is your friend.

There's a bout a million sites with sheet metal gage references on 'em.
Like this one:http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/gages/sheet_forward.cfm

[Joe Unni]

Markus,

I agree with Rob - DON'T TOUCH THEM!!!

I used to be an electrician's apprentice about a million years ago. Though I wasn't in the trade long enough to know specifics, I do remember that conductors are placed in conduit to satisfy a code requirement. Once you pull them out - the proverbial stuff will hit the fan.

Good luck,
-joe

[Rob Russell]

There's another reason not to do it ... if you're not licensed you're liable for fines from the state. In CT the fine for doing work without a license is $1000 per occurence. I don't know what NY's laws are, but doubt that they are far behind in terms of their desire to fine "illegal" electricians.

[Bruce Page]

Markus, first thing you need to do is find out the wall thickness, it looks pretty stout, probably 15 or 14 gauge. A pair of calipers or a ball mic would work well.
The nibblers are nice but you are going to end up with a lot of chips/debris everywhere. For that reason, I’d choose the shear action. Don’t know if the HF is up to the task but @ $40 you could go through a few of them without too much pain.

[skip coyne]

another dont mess with them vote .

I assume its not your building

sprint has a lease with the owner that I would imagine includes a easment for the conduit path

either pay sprint the 10k or figure a creative way to work around them

the conduit also provides a cable path to the tower , if you disturb that path and new cable needs to be run what then ?

["Gary Brewer"]

Markus: What about a 4 or 4 1/2 inch grinder with a metal cutting blade? As long as you could move the cable away from the spot being grinded ( maybe with a small stick) so the heat doesn't melt the cable's insulation it would easily cut the conduit. My son adopted my Milwaukee 4 1/2" grinder and used it to cut his rebar and wire mesh when building his house and garage. It cuts solid 1/2 inch steel rebar in a few seconds. Conduit would be easier to cut but also easier to cut cables if you're not careful. Also the tube could be sliced into sections with a sawzall if you were careful not to again cut cable. This would allow you to move a section of conduit at a time to isolate the cables in the emt then use a grinder or maybe the sawzall if the cables weren't packed in there. A little risky but maybe ok if you worked slowly and were very careful. I do think you you would want to make sure you don't get into trouble like the above messages talk about.
Gary

[Tom Majewski]

1. Don't mess with another company's cable without asking/telling them first.
2. If you don't know if it's RF, AC, DC control, alarm, ect.... leave it alone.

If something happens, even unrelated to you removing the conduit, they'll find a way to blame you. Some poor technician will be trying to upgrade the cable in the future by fishing out the old one and wonder why it's not pulling and probably tear out your work to get to it.

Like Rob said- they have more lawyers than you.

Another thought is being caught in the act redhanded by a union electrician. You don't have to ask me how I know this.:eek:

[John Shuk]

I think you might better contact a lawyer about this problem. If the conduit is run in an obtrusive manner though space that does not belong to Sprint then I think a little chop busting on your part might do the trick. They could very well win a peeing contest if you start messing with their plant. If you or your client has an attorney then I would try to get the ball rolling with that. I have dealt with Sprint on telecom issues and they try to play hardball but often they soften up in the end.

[Jim Becker]

I wouldn't touch those lines if I were in your shoes. You're asking for trouble.

Bingo...don't go there, Marcus. Sprint likely paid good money to put them in that space (contractually with the building owner) and interfering with them could result in some really major legal issues for you. The building owner also likely is getting a revenue stream from the tower and those cables. Maybe you need to install more conduit in a decorative way to mask the fact that the real ones just aren't going to move!

[Alfred Clem]

Just wondering. Let's say you have insurance on your property and/or possessions. If you commit an illegal act in which damage occurs either to your property, the property of others, or to the building in which your property resides, is your insurance carrier within his rights to cancel all coverage of your goods? Think before you act.

[Richard Keller]

Another don't touch em vote. I'm an electrician, and I wouldn't want to be involved. If it's not AC I don't know if they could fine you as an "illegal" electrician (Up here in Canada, that never happens - to bad) But you can bet if Sprint has a problem with that cable ever, they will resize your bum-hole in a HUGE way.

Richard.

[Robert Mahon]

In the immortal words of my Mother:
"When in doubt, DON'T!"

[Dave Jackson]

NO WAY would I mess with that. One slip and the original $10k may seem like a bargain. --dave

[markus shaffer]

Thank you to everyone who responded. Deep down I know better than to even think to do such a thing, but when looking at it I really see the possibility making it work. However, I will heed the majority advice here and leave it be.

I am disappointed to not get some sort of new tool out of the deal though..

Curse all you naysayers!!


-Markus

[David Henderson]

If you can't live with paying Sprint the dough to move the wires and boxing them in where they are is unacceptable, then maybe you could cut the existing floor out enough to bury them in it where they lay assuming there is enough slack in the coduit to move them enough. If not, you can always raise the whole floor 2 1/2 inches to have a uniform floor height in the whole room