Thin Translucent Red?

[Joe Pelonio]

I have a customer wanting a quote for several hundred items laser cut using a .02 or thinner translucent red material, any ideas of what to use and where to get it?

[Bob Tate]

My primary supplier calls it "Stop Light Red" but it is actually numbered 2423 and is also available from Delvies. I use a bunch of it, in 1/8 and 1/4. It is readily available. It actually does look just like a tail light lens, imagine that. That is what I am doing with it. Not exactly DOT but nobody seems to be checking.
Bob

[Joe Pelonio]

Bob,

I find that color, but the thinnest they show is 1/16, I need .02 or less which is less than 1/32".

[Tracey Bakewell]

Would this product help any from LaserBit's website???

SUS 064

I got to it from their Laser Supplies main menu, then under Masking Materials...

[Joe Pelonio]

Would this product help any from LaserBit's website???

SUS 064

I got to it from their Laser Supplies main menu, then under Masking Materials...


It looks like what I'm after, but it's too narrow for the items that will be 8"x10.5", and I can't have adhesive on it. Thanks for looking, Tracey.


I did think of one thing, the gel sheet material used in theater lighting. It's clear polyester, double coated (both sides) and available at a theatrical supply for $7.95/20"x24" sheet. They are 1.42 mils, which is .002 and may be TOO thin. I'm checking with the customer on it.

[Bill Cunningham]

Go into your local print shop, and ask to see a piece of Rubylith (sp?) this is the stuf they use to mask offset print negatives.. I have some here, and it mic's at .004

[Joe Pelonio]

You are all trying so hard I can't believe everything turns out to have something wrong with it. Rubylinth is even thinner than the gels and when I asked him about that he said it needed to be more rigid. I don't think there is such a thing unless someone sells a .02 acrylic, which would be really brittle
even if I could find it.

[Dave Jones]

Acrylic would be brittle, but I wonder if they make a colored lexan/polycarbonate that thick. It would be stronger than acrylic, but I've only seen clear.

Maybe check with a signmakers supply shop. There are some thin plastics used for multicolor lighted signs. But again they might be too thin. I know 3M makes a .002 colored film for signs, but as you said, that's too flexible for your customer.

Heat up a sheet of 1/16" and then throw it under a hydraulic press? :eek:

[Mitchell Andrus]

Acetate (.003) may do it. Try Dick Blick:

http://www.dickblick.com/zz555/08/

http://www.dickblick.com/zz555/03/

I don't know if they have colors... I've used this stuff to make stencils. Stiff and flexible.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-35,GGLD:en&q=acetate+sheets

Mitch

[Richard Rumancik]

I would check on Cellulose Acetate, (or Cellulose Acetate Butyrate or Cellulose Acetate Propionate).

I have a Johnston Industrial catalog (Canada) which lists red .020" Cellulose Acetate in .020, 20" x 50" sheets. Availability in USA is probably better than Canada. I don't know the degree of translucence. It is similarly priced compared to polyester.


CA is laser-cuttable per Synrad:

www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/124-1.htm (http://www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/124-1.htm)

These materials are used in packaging, graphic arts, bookbinding industries. Some stencils are made of CA products.

You will have to investigate further assuming you can find a supplier.

[Joe Pelonio]

Acetate (.003) may do it. Try Dick Blick:

http://www.dickblick.com/zz555/08/

http://www.dickblick.com/zz555/03/

I don't know if they have colors... I've used this stuff to make stencils. Stiff and flexible.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-35,GGLD:en&q=acetate+sheets

Mitch

Thanks, Mitch (and Richard). I have a supplier of that acetate but they only have clear. I'll try Blick and some local art supplies for colored.

[Richard Rumancik]

Joe - I think that IF you find the red, the minimums might become a problem. There's always a catch. I checked a bit myself and it seems colors are mostly limited to the .005" thickness.

I'm thinking that you may have to be creative to solve this one.

Thickest ruby film I see is Autotype at .007 (polyester).

Not sure of the application, but maybe the solution would be to laminate a thin red film (say ruby polyester) to .014 or .020 clear polyester with a clear PSA adhesive. A label manufacturer or an electronics overlay (control panel) manufacturer might be able to do that for you.

There are translucent red sign vinyl films but not sure if you can buy translucent red polyester sign material.

Or maybe a label printer could flood screen a translucent red coating on .020" polyester. (They do this for windows on overlays). Talk to some overlay/label manufacturers for advice/ideas.

Or maybe somebody with a digital printer can put red color on sign backlighting film and run a few feet.

This assumes the customer can afford all this trouble and expense . . . .

Had a customer that wanted a .023" thick spacer. I laminated .003 film and .020 polyester. I would not have found .023" off the shelf.

Just some ideas . . . don't know if any have potential.

[Joe Pelonio]

Joe - I think that IF you find the red, the minimums might become a problem. There's always a catch. I checked a bit myself and it seems colors are mostly limited to the .005" thickness.

I'm thinking that you may have to be creative to solve this one.


You have made some good suggestions, Richard. I have a sign shop so I have plenty of translucent vinyl, unfortuantely it contains PVC. Some of the printing and laminating ideas may work though, using the polyester acetate. I'm still waiting for some vendors to contact me back about the colored acetate, but if it's not available maybe a transparent ink would work, or the clear adhesive (laminating film). The guy wants 500 of these things and is not saying what they are for. I get that a lot, people have an idea they think will sell, and won't say how the parts I make will be used. Maybe they are afraid that since I have the equipment I might steal their idea?

[Jim A. Walters]

Joe,

Here is a place I found on the web that has 0.020 acetate they claim they can color with gel.

http://grafixplastics.com/acetate_film.asp

[Joe Pelonio]

Joe,

Here is a place I found on the web that has 0.020 acetate they claim they can color with gel.

http://grafixplastics.com/acetate_film.asp

Thanks, Jim, I e-mailed them for a quote.

[Brent Vander Weil]

In eading the MSDS ( I am not a chemical engineer so I have to ask) it says the following-

Decomposition Products
Carbon Monoxide, Carbon dioxide, acetic acid, water.

Now I know this is not the same acid variety that would be produced by lasering PVC, but is this of concern? Why or why not?

[Bob Tate]

Acetic Acid is harmless. That is what you smell in vineger, Silicone RTV, and lots of other products.

[Tim Goldstein]

The danger of acetic acid depends on the strength.

From Wikipedia:
Concentrated acetic acid is corrosive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrosion) and must therefore be handled with appropriate care, since it can cause skin burns, permanent eye damage, and irritation to the mucous membranes. These burns or blisters may not appear until several hours after exposure. Latex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latex) gloves offer no protection, so specially resistant gloves, such as those made of nitrile rubber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrile_rubber), should be worn when handling the compound. Concentrated acetic acid can be ignited with some difficulty in the laboratory. It becomes a flammable risk if the ambient temperature exceeds 39 °C (102 °F), and can form explosive mixtures with air above this temperature (explosive limits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosive_limit): 5.4%–16%).
The hazards of solutions of acetic acid depend on the concentration.
Solutions at more than 25% acetic acid are handled in a fume hood because of the pungent, corrosive vapour. Dilute acetic acid, in the form of vinegar, is harmless. However, ingestion of stronger solutions is dangerous to human and animal life. It can cause severe damage to the digestive system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestive_system), and a potentially lethal change in the acidity of the blood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood).

My guess is that it would be a low concentration. Main point is just because something is safe in one setting does not mean it is always safe.

[Richard Rumancik]

Doing some filing and sorting, and happened to come across another "maybe" from Multi-Plastics Inc.

http://www.multi-plastics.com/PDF%20files/solatuf.pdf

It is Modified acrylic avail in .020 (and more). They SAY you can choose translucent colors and they SHOW colors on the website, but the real test is asking for a quote . . .

But if they can't supply in red maybe you can process it with paint/screen print etc to convert to red or give you some tips on how to color.

[Joe Pelonio]

In eading the MSDS ( I am not a chemical engineer so I have to ask) it says the following-

Decomposition Products
Carbon Monoxide, Carbon dioxide, acetic acid, water.

Now I know this is not the same acid variety that would be produced by lasering PVC, but is this of concern? Why or why not?
It's "chlor" that you have to watch out for on MSDS sheets, hydrochloric acid is what the lasering of PVC will create.

I have cut acetate before with no trouble, just haven't found anything but clear.

Richard, I'll check that source out too. Thanks.