Cyclone build progress

[Rick Beko]

All I can say is that this has been interesting. Galvanized metal is not a fan of paint or solder. Most of the tin was 20 gauge so I decided to find someone who could form the pieces. I found a local HVAC store with a sheet metal shop in the back. The owner and I took the galvanized sheets into the back and formed the pieces. Then he offered to spot weld the pieces so hey...why not. Then he wanted to solder the joints...thanks but this is my project. I think he was excited to have someone show up with plans to build something. It is extemely rare these days to find such customer service. He even offer for me to come back and solder the joints with his 3lb solder irons in case the torch did not work. I walked out his door after around 90mins and he charged me $40.
My next task was to clean the tin in order to apply the solder. I tried TSP and laquer thinner but they did not seem to work. In hindsight I probably did not clean them enough. The HVAC person said he used muriatic acid. I pick up a litre at the hardward store and they did the trick. No fussing around. Here is a pic of my cyclone
http://www.workshopbuzz.com/forum/album_mod/upload/53d55d8864d200efbcb1c71cc0b404e9.jpg
The blower took a bit of time to solder the tin for the wall and form the one corner. I applied Watco to the housing just to add a little protection. The challenge here was applying paint. I cleaned the surface with laquer thinner and applied Tremclad galvanized metal primer. I waited until the next day and when I applied the paint it cracked in a particular section. I must have removed and re-applied the primer and paint 5-6 times. Each time is cracked or peeled in a different spot. Luckily I was only working with a 8" length causing problems. The majority of the paint job went well but on the back size a have a couple of sections the size of a quarter that is cracked. Here are a couple of pics.
http://www.workshopbuzz.com/forum/album_mod/upload/2e0920851b48305a39e85ec957ca1382.jpg
http://www.workshopbuzz.com/forum/album_mod/upload/21a4fba73be029af8ce584d3120692b7.jpg
This weekend the plan is to seal the interior seems and paint the exterior. Should be interesting.
Thanks for looking
Rick

[Brent Grooms]

Hi Rick, which plans are you using for the build?

[Marcus Carr]

Wow, that is awesome. I am curious about the final cost of the project and how well it works. Good work so far!

Marcus

[Rick Beko]

Hi Brent, if you google Bill Pentz cyclone you will come across the site.

Marcus, I am replacing a 1HP Busy Bee DC so this will be a huge improvement. I will tally up my cost once I come to end of job. I know some folks built theirs on a leaner budget but it will depend on how much you are will do. I was interested in building the project but if I save a few hundred $$ in the process all the better. I also benefitted from a group purchase where one member decided a year later they did not have the time so I purchased his parts. When I was pricing out materials prices had gone up so this kit showed savings right off the bat. I kit included 20-22 gauge laser cut sheet metal, CNC cut blower housing, Sheldon impeller, 5HP Leeson motor for $800CND. From there I need hardware, 2 x Farr filters, filter cabinet, cyclone mount, and the bin.

[Rick Beko]

Well I am almost there. Due to my limited height clearance I decided to mount the blower to the wall. This part of the shop is surrounded by foundation so I was not too concerned with vibration. The brackets I purchased from HD for $15 a piece. To dampen any vibration I went high tech using rubber hockey pucks. This set up worked perfectly as the motor bracket is 1/8" from the closest joist..this leaves me the option so secure it to another point. I made a bracket from 3/4" ply in order to mount the transition fromt the blower to the filter cabinet. This duct from the blower to the cabinet is 8" so there is limited restriction on the air flow. The filter cabinet is made out of 3/4" particle board and 5/8" ply. The inside is lined with 5/8" insulation. There are three chambers separated by 4 standard furnace filters. The filters hold their position due to the dados in the cabinet combined with the insulation. If the bin ever over flows the first chamber should prevent the Farr filters from damage. The front cover is made of poplar with three Lexan panels. On the electrical side I wired a 30 amp 220v line to a contactor with a 110v coil. This allowed me to control the cyclone with a $20 remote. With the cyclone mounted in place the noise is much lower than I expected. The next step is to paint the cyclone. I will be using a fibre bin 23" x 21" with a locking metal lid. I have two on order so I can easily swamp them out due to the small size.

http://www.workshopbuzz.com/forum/album_mod/upload/75ab1c38748df94f0a7694e73bb5fea1.jpg

http://www.workshopbuzz.com/forum/album_mod/upload/b7f284a8ff1fb9d88c94c2ce41a4751e.jpg

http://www.workshopbuzz.com/forum/album_mod/upload/b108276398373e9a38fc9b6fa30791ab.jpg

http://www.workshopbuzz.com/forum/album_mod/upload/4b58f78d7b0c469791f896dc99164be3.jpg

[Dennis Peacock]

Hey Rick,

I like your filter "box". My question is, how are the farr filters going to come into play since you have it piped into the center of the filter cabinet?:confused:

[Rick Beko]

Hi Dennis, the only way in is top centre and the only way out is at the bottom of each Farr filter. In theory it sounds like a good idea to have a prefilter area in case my bin ever overflows but it will be interesting to see if the prefilters last. The volume of air running through the cabinet puts a lot of strain on the prefilters so we will see.

[Bill Pentz]

Rick,

You do nice work.

A few comments as some of what you struggled with are problems that have long been solved.

First, if you check my web pages there is a recommendation for the solder type and brand of flux that work pretty consistently to solder galvanized metal.

Second, in terms of the painting, zinc chromate primer after cleaning with lacquer thinner makes for a good paint job that does not crack. Better yet, buy a thick floor mat and wrap it around your blower with a piece below and above. This will significantly deaden the sound level.

Third, you might want to upgrade your blower outlet to at least 8” and maybe even 10” duct. With my stepping up to use of larger impellers to take advantage of the larger motors the larger blower outlet and duct will create less resistance also known as back pressure.

Finally, you have done a nice job on your filter setup. I think the pre-filters in lieu of a dust bin full sensor are a great idea as we know that a full bin will pump the works into your filters.

If you find the noise too much, then I have gotten lots of feedback on different solutions that can helps considerably. I share muffler plans and a design on my web pages that will cut the noise in about half. You can wrap the blower outlet pipe and that will also help. Another very effective thing is wrapping your blower sides, top and bottom with a thick foam mat leaving the motor unenclosed of course so it can stay cool. Most of the blower noise comes from the gore point and that wrapping cuts the noise significantly.

Anyhow, keep up the good work.

bill

[Rick Beko]

Bill, thanks for the feeback. Trust me, I read through your site a few times. I was trying to find your suggested solder and flux but no one seemed to carry it in my area. An HVAC store suggested Muriatic acid and it worked great.

I just painted the cyclone and this paint job went on much easier. I picked up a quality dupont etching paint. After about 90 mins I was able to put on the red coat with no cracking. The picture did not turn out well (paint looks blotchy) but the more difficult part is done.

As for noise I am quite pleased with the way it is right now. I used an 8" pipe from the blower to the cabinet and insulated the cabinet with 5/8" foam. There may be more I can do but it probably will not change much.

On to getting some ducting.

[Al Killian]

To reduce the noise, you could take and replace the pipe from the exhaust side with double walled stove pipe. The cuts down the noise quit a bit.

[David Cramer]

Really nice job Rick! That is quite a project you've undertaken and it will be quite useful to say the least. I wish I had those kind of metal skills:mad: to attempt something like that. Just curious, how much does something like that cost when you do it yourself? Keep up the good work!

Dave

[Keith Webster]

I would really like to do this myself. What is going to be your finally cost on this project? Also you might have already painted the sheetmetal but if not try wiping it down with vinegar. This will break down the top coat of oil and other stuff on the galv. then just use some good primer.

[Bart Leetch]

I've always heard & seen white vinegar used to etch galvanized metal to prep for painting.

[Eric Wong]

Beautiful job Rick! I just bought a Bill Pentz designed cyclone, because I figured it would take most of the year to build it myself.

[Rick Beko]

The cost will be dependant on how much of the work you want to do and what you use to power it. I took this on as a project I wanted to tackle verses saving money compared to buying a manufactured unit. On top of that I wanted to reduce dust as much as possible. The lower cost version would be to buy the sheet metal, roll it at home and solder it together. Then you could buy a reasonable size dust collector to power it. My intention was to build it all from scratch. I was pricing out all the parts and a year ago the 5HP Leeson motor alone was around $480CDN including tax. I came across a member on another forum that had a kit for sale. For $800 I purchased the motor, laser cut 20gauge galv tin, CNC cut blower housing and 14" impeller. The 20ga tin is a little heavy to roll at home so I found an HVAC place that charged me $40 to shape and spot weld the parts. I did have the work so I got a deal on the price. I would estimate with electrical, cyclone and filter box I am at $1400CDN. This price is based on what I wanted to build but you can definitely do it for less $$.

[Rick Beko]

This project took me around 2.5 months. It should not have taken so long but work became busy.

I had a difficult time painting the sheet metal for the blower. The Tremclad paint I purchased kept cracking. For the cyclone body I went to an auto parts store and picked up a high quality Dupont self etching primer. I was able to apply two coats in 30 minutes. Then I applied two coats of fast drying red paint. The primer made a huge difference and went on smooth. The picture makes the cyclone look blotchy but it looks much better in person.

[Mark Slutz]

Very nice job Rick. I am just getting ready to start mine with a motor and impeller from Oneida. I have one quick question for you. It looks like you are using plywood for the motor plate on top of the blower is that correct? Is the full weight of the motor supported by the ply or is the motor also attached to the joist?
Thanks,
Mark

[Rick Beko]

Now that I have all the duct work in place the cyclone is not noisy at all. I think this may have to do with the size of the filter box. I do not have a sounds meter but there are a few tools that come to mind that are much louder.

To be honest I did not add up my total cost. Part of the reason is because I took this on as a project verses a means of saving money. What it really comes down to is how much you are willing to do. Some folks build the cyclone and use a blower from another unit which reduces the cost. My intention was to build it from scratch. A year ago when I priced out the Leeson motor is was in the neighbourhood of $425CDN. The sheldon 14" impeller was $265CDN. I came across someone on a forum that was involved in a group purchase and he had no time to build it. I purchased the tin laser cut, 14" impeller, 5HP Leeson, CNC cut router housing for $800CDN. The Farr filters were another $170 for both.

If you purchase the material and do the fabrication yourself you can save some money but I doubt you would save much verses buying a Clearvue.

[Jay Bowdring]

I saw Bill Pentz website a few months ago and i keep thinking about how I really want to give it a shot, but the only thing is that i don't know I would be able to solder the metal for the cyclone, is it relatively easy to do? I am a plumber and have been soldering copper for years? Do you think it is something I would be able to pick-up on or what? Because if not I would have to have the part fabricated at a sheetmetal shop and I don't wanna pay someone to do it........Anyways you really have an incredible talent, good luck with your creation! Thanks in advance for any insight.......

Jay Bowdring
(new to woodworking & new member to this forum):confused:

[Ron Blaise]

Look foreward to seeing the finished product!