New iron for an old plane

[Jesse Thornton]

Hello all,
This is my first post here in the neanderthal haven, but given my exponentially growing love of hand tools, I'm sure it won't be my last. My question today is about the value of upgrading the plane iron in an old Bedrock 605 that I've been cleaning up. It still has the original stamped stanely blade in it, and honed to 8000 grit it planes rather nicely, but I was wondering how much of a difference switching to one of these thicker A2 irons from LV would make:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=42607&cat=1,41182,43698&ap=1
How far would the extra thickness go towards reducing chatter? Would they hold an edge noticably longer?
Any opinions?

[John Schreiber]

It would go a long way to doing what you ask for. I found that the extra thickness helps quite a bit. I have one A2 blade and it lasts quite a bit longer between sharpening even on really abrasive wood, but it is also quite a bit harder to sharpen. I think that next time I purchase a blade, I will stick with 01 steel.

That's a matter of personal preference though, I consider stopping for sharpening to be a nice break in my work.

[Gary Curtis]

A Bedrock plane one hell of a tool. I'm not an expert on these matters 'cause I'm new to woodworking. But I bough Hock plane irons for all 8 of my planes. They are 1/8" thick. I also bought Ron Hock's chipbreakers for the two planes that will undergo the heaviest usage.

Though many bladed tools are available in A2 steel, I chose 01 steel, the older high carbon variety. Hock sells makes plane boths in both metals. A2 holds an edge better - or, so they say. 01 has a smaller grain structure and is capable of being honed to a finer edge.

Like I said, I'm new, and these points are argued by many. Lee Valley sells Hock's iron. I think his own website is HOCKTOOS.com.

Gary Curtis

[jonathan snyder]

Jesse

I have one of LV's A2 blades in my #4 type 11 smoother. It is harder to sharpen than the old stock stanley blades. I have not quite gotten the hang of it yet, but I am failry new to the ways of the neander. I can get it sharp, but not as sharp as my other blades. It definitly hold san edge longer though. I think it performs much better than the old stock blades. I would like to upgrade the blade in my #3 also, but not sure If I will get A2 again. I putting off that decision untill I use the A2 blade a bit longer.

Jonathan

[Jesse Thornton]

Thanks for the replies. Now I have to decide whether to get a LV or a hock blade (LV sells both), and whether to go with A2 or 01. I wonder how significant the difference is in how sharp you can get an 01 versus an A2? How high of a grit would you have to go to in order to notice the difference? I currently sharpen my planes and chisels to 8000 grit on japanese waterstones. I already have a few LV planes with A2 blades (LA block, bullnose, and spokeshave), and the time it takes to sharpen them doesn't put me off, and while I enjoy the sharpening process, I don't want to spent heaps of time on it. Any idea roughly how much longer the A2 stays sharp in normal use than an 01?

[Brian Hale]

If it was me, i'd get the Hock A2 blade and matching chipbreaker.


Brian :)

[Nick Clayton]

I've had good luck with Hock blades and chipbreakers in the #5 & #4 I restored.

[Derek Cohen]

Jesse

Question - why is the existing blade chattering?

It shouldn't do so. So, either the plane is set up very poorly (possibly, considering the age and condition), or you are doing something wrong (like having the blade extended too far, or a blunt blade, or both). Is your blade really sharp? Is it correcty bedded?

Question - do you plan to use the plane as a jack or as a smoother?

If you see it as a jack, then it is not necessary to add a thicker blade since this is coarser work. On the other hand, should you see the plane as a long smoother, then the thicker blade (and a thicker cap iron) would be a worth while.

Just keep in mind that the benefits of a thicker blade will not be fully recognised until you have tuned the plane and got the max out of its existing envelope for the type of work you have in mind. Only then will you know if a thicker blade/capiron is an upgrade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Robert Rozaieski]

I agree with Derek. Eliminate the chatter first. Simply upgrading the iron will not completely eliminate the chatter. Make sure the iron is bedded securely against the frog, that the frog is not back to far causing the edge of the iron to rest on the mouth of the plane body (and not on the frog), and that the chipbreaker is contacting the iron at the cutting edge.

With that being said, there's no need to upgrade the iron in every plane. The smoothing plane will get the most benefit from an upgraded iron because it leaves the final surface ready for finish. In this case you want the best iron to take the thinnest shaving with zero chatter to get a nice smooth surface.

I wouldn't waste money on a new iron or chipbreaker for a jack, fore or jointer plane unless the originals were unusable. These planes are really meant to take rougher shavings than the smoother and are not intended to leave the final surface. You would finish with a smooth plane after using one of these other planes.

I only upgraded the iron and chipbreaker on my #4 and that was because the ones that came with it were unable to be used. I got a Hock O1 iron and a Clifton 2-piece chipbreaker (about 5 years ago). I've tried the two irons in my jack plane since the #4 and #5 use the same size and realized that the iron that is in my jack does a fine job for the rough work it is intended to do. Therefore I didn't upgrade the jack plane iron. However, I am going to be upgrading the iron and chipbreaker in my #3 smoother.

[Tyler Howell]

Hock is great stuff. Sharpens up nice and holds an edge:cool:

[Michael Fross]

Ouch. Todd, your gonna get knocked around a bit for that post by the moderators. The rules here do not allow links to other forums or for self promoting sales posts.

No real harm done, just letting you know.

Michael

[Jesse Thornton]

Derek and Robert,
Those are good points, although I'm not actually experiencing a specific problem with chatter. Like I say, it cuts well, but not being terribly experienced with hand planes, I wondered if there was vibration at a level that wasn't readily apparent to me, and whether these thicker blades would improve an already decent plane. I don't have a smoother, so until I do I'll be using this jack in its place. I was also using it successfully yesterday with a shooting board to joint boards for glue up. So with those uses in mind, it sound like it may be worthwhile to upgrade.
I am still quite curious as to how much of a difference people have noticed in the edge that 01 takes versus A2, longevity aside.
Another question - how close to the edge do you like to seat the chipbreaker?

[JayStPeter]

I put a Hock in my 605. It's A2 and stays sharp quite a bit longer than the old blade. If I was getting a new blade for any plane now, I'd go with LV. I'm seriously impressed by the flatness of the last blade I got from them. Prices and performance are all similar, might as well save yourself some honing work.

[rick fulton]

Jesse,

Thicker is better up to a point. I bought an Hock A2 for my 604 1/2 and I couldn't be happier. Bought a Ray Iles D2 for my 605 and found it was too thick to fit. It is only about 0.115" thick, but I just can't get the blade tip to exit the body without it completely closing the mouth. To bad, since that same D2 blade has made an awesome difference when I installed it in my wooden jack plane.

Has anyone else here tried the Ray Iles D2 in a bedrock?

rick