New Woodworker

[Jason Nelson]

I am just beginning as a woodworker and I would like some assistance if possible. I would like to, one day make this my full time business. But what do I decide to go into or make? Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Neil Lamens]

Hi Jason..........gonna need a bit more information. Give us an experience level, age, idea of what you have built so far, what machines you have, present shop.

Give some meat to crew-on a bit..........you'll get real good answers here answers.

Before others think me rude......welcome.

[Mike Henderson]

There's an old joke in woodworking- furniture makers win awards, cabinet makers make money. Cabinet makers refers to kitchen cabinets.

Welcome to the creek.

Mike

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jason ......Welcome to the Creek!

A beginning woodworker and you'd like to go pro?......The first thing I'd advise is getting education and training in the field and couple that with a some experience. Take a few classes....offered at local colleges....Woodcraft stores......build a library of educational material on woodworking. I am just a hobbiest but I can tell you that a lot of people start woodworking businesses and soon go out of business. Starting a business and making a living is difficult at best. I'd also take some business classes. A lot of businesses fail because of bad business decisions. Good luck with you endeavors!

Again.....Welcome to the Creek!

[Jason Nelson]

I am 34 years old, a novice woodworker. I've built a small kitchen table, some yard planters for my wife, nightstands and shoe racks for our house. For tools, I have a radial arm saw, miter saw, table saw, router and table, finishing, benchtop, and belt sanders. I hope this helps because I would like to find out anything I can, about the hobby and how I can make myself better. I know it takes practice and I'm willing to try anything.

[Jason Nelson]

Could you give me an idea of what classes I should take?

[Neil Lamens]

Jason...... Mike is on to something although cabinetmakers don't just make kitchen cabinets, and Ken's learning suggestion is on the money.

At 34........and this present time of the 16:9 TV,..........I'd go after Entertainment Centers, its your best market to jump into right now. Any new TV will be either flat screen or a thicker projection......how are your designing skills????? Don't think to build these big ole boxey units, with tons of box cabinetry at different levels. You've got the tools to work out a building style, although I didn't see mention of clamps. Think light and less depth, build with sheet goods and stay with a semi-gloss finish for shipping reasons. You'll have many constraints to deal with, but there will be an answer to every one, if you desire the objective.

You'll have installation to deal with and you'll need help to install.

And get off the computer and start right now!!!!! You've got some catching up to do!!!!

[Jason Nelson]

Thank you very much. If you can think of anything else let me know.

[Jason Nelson]

I do live in a very rural area. Northwest Minnesota to be exact, do you think that will work. If not could you give me some other ideas, and yes I have a very wide assortment of clamps. One other thing am I too old to start this or not.

[Todd Burch]

Jason, I've been there, done that.

First, how much money do you want/need to make?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jason.....If I was going to start out and wanted to make a livelyhood at it I'd consider taking some courses in cabinet making if that's what I planned on doing. If I planned on making furniture...I'd take some classes in furniture making. The people who make it seem to be somewhat specialized and are extremely good at what they do.

Take some business classes. Many small colleges offer courses related to starting, owning and operating small businesses. A lot of craftsman are extremely good at their crafts but very poor businessmen. A company that doesn't make a profit, doesn't stay in business. Financial hardships are also one of the leading causes of divorces IMHO. If you are married, have children....You got to be bringing home the bread! While your heart may want to do it....Use you brain and leave out the emotions while making the decision......and above all....don't burn any bridges.....You never know when you might want to retreat to or over that bridge!

It sounds like you have most of the tools you'll need and no...I don't think 34 is too old to start. I think you can learn until the day you drop dead...and in fact, if I don't learn something everyday..I'm sleeping.....and I'm old enough to be your father.

I don't want to sound pessimistic....just realistic......get to know the facts....get prepared before you decide.......

Good luck and do a lot of research before you make the big decision!

[Conrad Aquino]

I do live in a very rural area. Northwest Minnesota to be exact, do you think that will work. If not could you give me some other ideas, and yes I have a very wide assortment of clamps. One other thing am I too old to start this or not.

Too old at 34 ???? It's never too late.

I wish I was that young. I just turned 53 last year and I embarked upon a part time endeavor (I still have my full time day job) working at a small cabinet shop, to get a flavor of what a full time woodworking business might entail.

We're making cabinet doors and draw fronts for contractors and people that want to do DYI refacing of their kitchen cabinets... seems to be a lot of that being done these days. We're about 25 miles from an area that had a lot of tract homes spring up in the 80's, and now the kitchens are starting to look a bit tired so the reface option is a popular choice.

I've also found a niche market for myself in refurbishing and duplicating factory wood presentation grade cases for firearms. It's also been giving me a good feeling for what it would be like to be in business for myself.

Doing the woodworking is half the battle, the other is the accounting paper work, the shipping/receiving (aka running back and forth to the Post Office as I'm in a rural area where UPS is loath to come), ordering online for supplies... being in a rural area with no woodworking or home improvement stores close by, keeping some of the specialty supplies I use on hand can be a bit tricky, especially if I forget to check what I'm down to.

Doing it as an enjoyable hobby and doing it as a living/business are two very different things.

So far... it's been "interesting" and I'm not quite sure yet what I think about it.

If you really want to do this, you'll find a way, and I think it's doable from a rural locaton.

Conrad

[Jason Nelson]

Thanks all of you who helped me see things clearer and gave me the confidence I need to get started. I really appreciated the input from all of you. If you have any additional comments, please feel free to express them.

[nic obie]

Jason, I've been there, done that.

First, how much money do you want/need to make?



excellent point....

[Al Bois]

Hi Jason. I've been a hobbyist all my life. My dad got me into it very young. Now, I'm 32 and feel like I have the workshop that an old man should have. LOL..

I've always wanted to turn in my laptop and turn to woodworking fulltime. I've built an entertainment center, a fireplace mantel (posted here at SMC), multiple small tables, a bed for my son (my favorite!), a dresser for the wife and countless other items (I would guess around 75-100 items of substance in all, not counting actual construction projects). Even after all that, I feel I still need years of fine tuning my skills to get up to snuff with what some of the guys do here.

I'm a bit of a perfectionist with what I do and really feel that most of my woodworking projects are "good enough" (not perfect). They look good in general to me and I get a lot of great compliments from others, but in the end, I know things that could have been done better, different, etc.. If I were paying for those items, I would expect the craftsman to already know what could have been done better and done it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is try to live your dream, but do not stop doing what already pays the bills to follow that dream without more experience. Try some projects on the side (working nights/weekends) and see how it turns out. You will know if you can make a decent living out of your woodworking without having to "bet the farm" on it. Unless you're a woodworking prodigy, take baby steps and you'll get to where you want to go.

Please don't take this as negative... Just make sure you have all the angles covered before you take the leap.

And if you do............... BEST WISHES!!!!!

[David Kauffman]

Jason... by all means live your dream. Just understand that putting food on the table using a woodshop is not the easiest thing to do. Like Conrad, I am also 53, and also started to make and sell woodcrafts at shows in the local area a couple years ago. I'm an electronics tech, and that is what puts food on the table, but I've been working wood for 20+ years and decided few years ago to try and make a little money at it. Couple things... you've got to be VERY organized. As was said, time in the shop actually making product is only one piece of the pie. Not trying to burst anybodies bubble, but supporting a family with your woodshop will be tough if you’re just starting out. However, as a supplement to your income, it can be very rewarding. Example: In 6 shows and a few misc sales, I sold $4600 worth of product with a profit after expenses of about $3400. That actually equates to an AVERAGE over the whole year of about 5 hours a week either in the shop making product or standing behind a booth selling it. What that does for me is it allows me to buy toys I normally could not afford. Just bought a shelix cutterhead for my 15 inch Yorkie planer and another one for my 8" Grizz jointer using the profits from those shows last year. Here is an example of the kind of things I make and sell. This is a nutcracker I designed... works well. I sell them for $6. Sold about $1000 worth of these this past year. They are somewhat complicated to make, but on the other hand, FUN to make. With the jigs I designed, I can make between 3 and 4 per hour rough boards to finished product if I make a run of 50 or so at a time. I make them out of oak, cherry, walnut, ash and maple.
WALNUT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/tswoodshop/onesmall.jpg
NUTCRACKER
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/tswoodshop/twosmall.jpg
WALNUT MEETS NUTCRACKER
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/tswoodshop/threesmall.jpg

[Jesse Thornton]

Hi Jason,
For me, one of the hardest parts of making money with custom woodworking is knowing in advance how much to quote for a project, particularily for labour. I don't like to crank out the same thing over and over again, and so I find myself working out new designs and methods of work with each successive project. This can make it very difficult to assess how many hours I will be putting into a particular job, and I tend to often underpay myself to compensate for overly optomistic projections. What has been said already in this thread is very true - that it is one thing to develop your skills in woodworking, but if your business skills aren't just as developed (or more so) then you might be headed for some stressful situations.
If you do start wooodworking professionally before you have much experience, the strongest piece of advice that I can offer is to not oversell yourself - that is, be completely upfront and honest about what sort of experience you have and what aspects of the job you are or aren't well versed in. If the prospective client is turned off by your inexperience, it's better to end it before it begins. However, I find a lot of people really appreciate being spoken to candidly and directly, and generating that trust can often build considerably more confidence in you than a lengthy list of laurels will. I learned this the hard way - when I started working independently, I was afraid to look 'unprofessional', and without any intention of being decietful I portrayed myself as being somewhat more experienced and confident than I actually was. This resulted in me biting off more than I could comfortably chew, and I had to work ridiculously long, stressful hours on a couple of jobs just to barely pull them off. I decided then and there that professionalism, for me, wasn't about projecting any image but the real one, and simply doing the best work I knew how to do. I haven't backed myself into a stressful work situation since.
And I wholeheartedly concur with the others: You're never too old to learn something new. Good luck with it.

[chris fox]

I agree with Todd's question, who much money do you need to make? I would assume you need to figure out what you can get by on i.e. monthly income. Do you have other income coming in i.e spouse?
I think once you do this you will find out what area you need to target(entertainment centers,etc.) how much you need to borrow and emmerse yourself in that area.

my .02.

BTW. For those who build furniture and sell furniture for a living, what kind of insurance do you need to have? i.e. a kid climbs a entertianment center and it falls down on injures him/her. Just curious??

[Jason Nelson]

I am a bit of a perfectionist also. I need things to look just right or I'm not happy with it either. I am not the kind of person that would jump in that freely, I have to think alot about what I am about to do. So thank you very much for the comments

[Todd Burch]

Seeing as you consider yourself a perfectionist, then I would expect you to have the perfect business plan and the perfect business model, the perfect set of products and identified the perfect employees and business location and market before making a perfect leap with any eyes perfectly opened! ;)

Todd

[Julio Navarro]

I can give you a little useful insight into what you are planning on doing.

I am 49 and just recently got into WW only a few short months ago. Like you I had the same questions and like you I was lucky to find the Creek.

I have since spent a great deal of time building almost all of my shop cabinets and furniture as well as my Pentz cyclone. I have learned a great deal building all these things and have gained a lot of understanding just reading the posts and seeing the examples of so much fine woodworking here at the Creek.

I dont think I will be ready to truely earn money woodworking for some time yet as I have much technique and experiance to gain but just being here at SMC is a good start.

My dream was to build beautiful and intricate humedores. Living here in Tampa (huge cigar city theres prob as many tabacco shops as pizza deliveries) I think I can sell them if they are professional quality. I still have my dream but I realized the road was going to be just a bit longer than I first thought, though it is much more enjoyable than I first thought.

Any way, my advice is build as many of your own shop furniture as you can using as many different techniques as you see here in Creek, finger joints, mortise and tenon, splines, bisquites, raised panel, inset panel, edge joints, etc.

I have a hodgepodge of different looking furniture because I have tried as many different techniques as I can. I have also done metal work and welding while building my cyclone. I've worked with plastic while making my dust hoods, and of course with wood making my furniture and jigs.

I have gained not only experiance but also confidence in what I can do and acheive.

And, of course, you have a great resource here. Search the archives and you will find an answer for almost anything you will need.

So welcome and good luck.

[Bill White]

And the most important word to learn is "accurate". Almost right just won't get it done when you're wanting to be paid a living wage.
I've had young folk wanting to work in the cabinet shop who can't even read a tape.
Bill

["Jason Belous"]

Hey jason,

when I first got into ww I had all of the tools but lacked the experience. I decided that I wanted to do it for a living and I am 31 going on five years as a full time ww. I found a local woodworker that I knew was talented and respected and asked him if I could shadow him on my spare time to learn some things and in return clean his shop run deliveries etc. I learned more than I could from any books and it was free. being in the north you should have no problem finding talented ww's that may be open to something of the sort. Also when you think you are confident enough start building clients find designers, architects, shops etc. that will market your skills for you, and let them do the sales for you, it all depends on what products you are trying to build. just dont get discouraged. their is always room in this industry for talent and creativity. good luck. p.s. you have to love woodworking and not look at it as a job. plus it is the journey that is the reward not the destination.

[Jason Nelson]

I have learned a great deal by reading your comments and stories, it has given me many ideas and ways of going about how to do this. I am going to take my time and with a lot of faith and a little luck maybe I can get this thing going in the future. For those who are wondering I have a wife who also works out of the home, and I am really gratefull she is so supportive.