trunion bolts - any tips or tricks?

[Sue Wise]

After updating my delta contractors table saw with a new Vega fence, it is time to tune it up. I know that the blade is out of alignment so I have a dial indicator on order.

However, after readjusting a few things last night, I got to thinking about how difficult it is to reach under there to work on things, so before I begin the blade adjustment I wanted to ask if there were any tips or tricks to reaching the front trunion bolts. What type of wrench is best to use? Do you put the saw on blocks so it is easier to work on?

Thanks for any suggestions.

[glenn bradley]

I put great amounts of effort into my contractor's saws to get them aligned and generally just set aside a day to go through the process. Then I finally took someone's advice and got these:

http://www.ptreeusa.com/tablesaw_products.htm

Best $20 I ever spent. By nature of design adjusting the table mounted trunnions on a contractor saw is cumbersome. You loosen the bolts and the weight of the motor and assembly hang there in a quasi-loose state. You get things lined up and they go back out of whack as you tighten the bolts.

The PALS make this much easier but there are still things you can do to make it more pleasant. My saws had six bolts through the trunnion to the table. I believe Delta's design has four but either way here's the general process I use. All adjustments are made with the motor mounted and the belt under tension. Otherwise your efforts are for not.

- Install the PALS.
- Loosen all bolts so that the trunnion can be moved about.
- Tilt the blade to be sure you are clearing the throat plate hole in all positions (I had to redo my hybrid once I was "all done" because I forgot this step).
- Return the blade to 90*.
- Tighten all bolts to "pinky tight status.
- Tighten one front bolt a bit tighter so that it will serve as a pivot point.
- Tighten the horizontal position bolts on the PALS till they just touch the rear trunnion 'ears'.
- Check your blade alignment vs. the miter slots (if you are unfamiliar with the 'mark a tooth' or similar method, search this forum; I won't bore you with it here).
- Adjust the rear of the trunnion using the PALS. Your front bolt being used as a pivot point should cause the rear of the blade to swing left to right as the PALS are adjusted.
- Once adjusted, secure the PALS per the instructions and tighten the remaining bolts.
- Double check the alignment although I rarely had the adjustment slip once the PALS were locked down prior to tightening the rest of the trunnion bolts.

That's what I used to do. It went pretty quick. . . now on to the Fence, eh?

P.s. I used a socket on a ratchet. Reach in there slowly and carefully and you'll avoid any banged knuckles or brushes with the blade. P.M. me if I can be of any other help.

[Sue Wise]

Glenn,
Thanks for the great response. I have seen the PALS and wondered if they were helpful. I will plan on purchasing them and then giving your process a try.

This forum is so helpful. :)

[Dave Hale]

I whole-heartedly agree with Glenn's recommendation.
Only problem I had with the PALS is getting my big hands in the cabinet with the tiny, little allen wrench to make the adjustment. Drilled a hole in the side with a metal bit with the little point in the center (can't think of the 'real' name right now) after 'punching' the side for the location. :)

[Mark Rios]

I will second (third? :D ) the recommendations from Dave and Glenn, including drilling a hole in the side of the cabinet. Makes adjusting a TON easier. I finally, after having the kit for over a year, put it on my CS about 2 or 3 months before I sold it and got my Uni and it was a great improvement. Here is the address for the company that makes them:

http://www.in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html

Free shipping from them also.

To get a really good alignment you might also want to look at one of the A-Line-It kits. I have a similar version and it was great to have the data right there to see and to adjust to. Well worth it IMO, especially on a contractor saw.

Let us know how it turns out for you Sue.

[Sue Wise]

I like the idea about the hole in the side. Are you talking about a 3"-4" hole using a hole saw?

[glenn bradley]

Tell me that's a joke! Boy you got my attention. . Hahaha. Another solution for reaching the bolts depending on your saw-body; buy shorter bolts. Mine had a good 3/4" of unneccessary length. A trip to the BORG solved this and the reachability problem for about $1 and no extra holes in the saw-body. Again this will completely depend on your saw-body. Good tip from Dave and Mark though. . . I forgot to mention that little potential gotcha.

[Dave Hale]

I like the idea about the hole in the side. Are you talking about a 3"-4" hole using a hole saw?

1/2" is more than enough if you line it up right. I wasn't kidding about the allen wrench size.
3-4" is more like what I was thinking when I didn't line it up right the first time. :) Brad-point drill bit is the term I couldn't think of earlier.

[Mark Rios]

1/2" is more than enough if you line it up right. I wasn't kidding about the allen wrench size.
3-4" is more like what I was thinking when I didn't line it up right the first time. :) Brad-point drill bit is the term I couldn't think of earlier.


1/2" is the size drill bit that I used. It leaves a bunch of room for the skinny allen needed. Just take your time measuring and write your numbers down and you'll be fine. I also found that it was MUCH easier to take off one of the horizontal braces between the legs of the saw and lay on my back to do the install of the kit, the measuring and whatever else I thought needed to be done like cleaning etc. Make sure to wear a pair of goggles and something over your mouth is good too, unless you like the taste of stuff like old saw dust, dirt-caked grease, metal filings, nuts and bolts....stuff like that. :D :D :D

[Greg Peterson]

Save yourself tons of aggravation and time. Go with the PALS. You should easily get your blade within .002" parallel.

I'd tell ya good luck, but PALS makes the task pretty easy.

[Norman Hitt]

Sue, I agree with all the above, and one other thing I found helpful was to use a "C" clamp to clamp the two parts of the tilt mechanism at the 'REAR' of the saw together before you start the adjustment process. This will help eliminate any slop in that mechanism as it keeps the rear mount from getting cocked during the adjustment process, and allowing a different amount of looseness between those two parts at different tilt angles, which can slightly change the blade alignment at the different tilt angle settings. (I hope this makes sense, the way I've tried to explain it).

[Mike Cutler]

Sue, and oithers.

The pals are a great tuning device. I have them also. Problem is that the front trunnion bolts are still needing to be tightened and loosend.

I know it's going to sound like a lot of work, but it's really not, take the table, and trunnion assembly off of the saw. Flip it upside down on a workbench. Install the PALS, and replace the front trunnion bolts with some better bolts,and lock washers. Mine were these mushy soft steel bolts that wouldn't hold the torque. This is also a good time to get all of the freeplay out of the blade raise/lower mechanism, and set the mechanical stops for the 45, and 90 degree blade positions. You may need to have some copper washers on hand to act as thrust washers for these alignments.

Flip the table and trunnion back over and rest it between two saw horse,and then align the blade to the miter slot. Torque the front two bolts, and tighten the PALS down and you will never have to do it again.

The ability to reach every part of the mechanism can't be understated. I can do this job in about an hour.

[Guy Boulianne]

Sue, I agree with all the above, and one other thing I found helpful was to use a "C" clamp to clamp the two parts of the tilt mechanism at the 'REAR' of the saw together before you start the adjustment process. This will help eliminate any slop in that mechanism as it keeps the rear mount from getting cocked during the adjustment process, and allowing a different amount of looseness between those two parts at different tilt angles, which can slightly change the blade alignment at the different tilt angle settings. (I hope this makes sense, the way I've tried to explain it).

Hi Norman. Thanks for that tip....... that is THE one I beleive I have missed until now.... I don't know if there is enything else about it but on my saw, the aligment dont even come back after I reset the blade to 90 degree after a tilted cut..... I have to loosen the rear trunion bolts (the pals is installed there), give a shake to the motor and rear bracket assembly et retight the bolts to reset the whole thing to the previous aligment...... I will try with the clamp (probably just loosen, clamp et retoght) and see what happens.

Guy

[Norman Hitt]

Hi Norman. Thanks for that tip....... that is THE one I beleive I have missed until now.... I don't know if there is enything else about it but on my saw, the aligment dont even come back after I reset the blade to 90 degree after a tilted cut..... I have to loosen the rear trunion bolts (the pals is installed there), give a shake to the motor and rear bracket assembly et retight the bolts to reset the whole thing to the previous aligment...... I will try with the clamp (probably just loosen, clamp et retoght) and see what happens.

Guy

Guy, I have had the same problem in the past that you describe and the method above will help some. Also, you can lightly tap the rear bracket some to be sure that the whole trunion assembly is tight on the bracket at the other end also. I would have liked to put a "C" clamp on those two parts as well, but just couldn't seem to find the room in there to do it on my saw. If a person did like Mike cutler mentioned, it "might" be possible to get a small clamp on the front end brackets while it is out of the saw and then remove it after all the bracket bolts were tightened. I do know that every bit of "Slop" you can get out before tightening the bolts really does make a difference.

Good Luck, and let us know if it helps any on your saw.