Some musings on my new MM16...................

[Mark Rios]

The blade guard wasn't too dificult to get aligned and working properly as was mentioned by Sam Blasco and others. Thanks for the pointers on that.

However, while cleaning it up and putting it together, I found some fit and finish items that are a little disappointing.

First, here's a full pic of the machine to fulfill my obligation to Tyler and the Pic Police. Tyler, please accept my apologies for not getting it up sooner. Please tell me where to send the fine.:D
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The On/Off switch is the first thing that I noticed that was kind of wonky. Mounted very noticeably crooked. This will not, nor anything else that I have to post (so far), potentially affect the performance of the saw but I was expecting a little more QC from this highly touted manufacturer.
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The next thing that I noticed was, after cleaning off the table of the rust preventative, there is a handprint stained into the table. Someone put their hand on the table (signed it?:D ) before the rust preventative was applied apparently. I've scrubbed it with steel wool and WD40 for 20 minutes or so and this is the best that I could get it. It's much easier to see in person than it is in the pic.
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Also, in the near left corner of the table, the grinding/surfacing marks are still raised considerably and can be felt quite readily. That area didn't get smoothed down apparently.

continued in next post...............

[Mark Rios]

(continued..........)

The next thing was the blade hole cut-out in the center of the table. As you can see from the pics, the back of the hole is very noticeably curved. A penny will fit in the space between the edge of the hole and the plastic filler. And speaking of the plastic filler, it's really kind of a cheesy part. Has anyone else noticed this? It sags between the corners so that I am unable to level it with the table. If the corners are flush, the middle, between each corner, is below tha surface and material can hang up (not safe). If I raise it until the middle is flush, the corners are all above the table surface. I'm thinking of making one out of wood.
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One other thing, directly under the handle that raises and lowers the upper wheel, there is a very small dimple(?) where it looks like a piece of welding slag fell on the table and left a very small hole. There is a small raised nub that I will have to sand/file down so that it doesn't stick up.

Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on these items? Not life changing or anything like that but a little disapponting for $2400 (on sale).

And question, if I may? I've attached a length of cord to the saw. The 10 gauge construction cord is approximately 9/16" in diameter so it's too big for the grommet provided but too small to be snug in the plastic nut so that the cord is hanging by the wire ends on the wiring block instead of being supported by the cord/nut grommet. This isn't a manufacturing issue by any means, just something I've run into because of the size of the cord that I'm using.
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Anyone know where I can get a grommet of a different size or some other means of wedging the cord into the nut? I could wrap black tape around the cord and use the tape for a grommet of sorts but tape doesn't really last that long in this application. I'd drill a hole and physically attach the cord to the machine before I used tape.


Thanks very much for you opinions and thoughts.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mark.........check with some electronics supply places locally or online. Grommets come in multiple sizes and are readily available.

[Ken Garlock]

Boy Mark, the only thing I can say is picky picky picky.;) :rolleyes:

The two things I would be concerned about is the blade cutout machining, and the huge cord. Yes, they should have done a better job on the cutout.

Regarding the cord, I presume that is just a piece of scrap cord you had on hand. If you are running the saw on 240V, 12 ga. would be a good choice, and would probably fit the junction box. My MM16 is plugged into a 240V, 20 amp circuit and has run with no problem for several years.

Enjoy your new toy.

[Joe Mioux]

Regarding the cord, I presume that is just a piece of scrap cord you had on hand. If you are running the saw on 240V, 12 ga. would be a good choice, and would probably fit the junction box. My MM16 is plugged into a 240V, 20 amp circuit and has run with no problem for several years.

Enjoy your new toy.

A bit of clarification: The new MM16 have a 4.8 hp motor and requires a 30 Amp circuit. I used 10ga for my extension cord.

Joe

[Mark Rios]

Thanks for the suggeation Ken F. I'll check out the two near my house.

As far as the cord goes, I've got 600 of 700 feet of heavy cord from when I used to work on housing tracts. I picked out one that was almost brand new and cut it up for my tools.

My 220V circuit is 10ga (Romex) with a 30 amp breaker and my extension cord that I use for my Uni and now my jointer and this saw is the same heavy cord mentioned above. A sticker above the electrical connection block says to use 9ga, 54144 but I don't have anything bigger than 10ga.

Thanks for the info and opinions on the QC and keep it coming please.

[Brian Hale]

Hey Mark!

My MM16 has several similar troubles, the most irritating being the plastic throat plate. I've spent a couple hours trying to get it level/even and even had MM send me a replacement. It appears the trouble is how the cutout in the table is cast. On mine the back right corner that the screw is supposed to sit on is tapered in toward the center of the opening and forces the insert out of shape. I had some success heating the insert up with a propane torch ( careful, it melts easily!) and reshaping it. Sorta helped some. :( I'm careful feeding boards across it to make sure it doesn't get hung up. I need to attack the opening with a dremel tool when i get one.

The fence bugs me also. It's an all or nothing adjustment; locked or unlocked. Trying to move the fence over a hair is an exercise in futility. It's also easy to tighten it down where it's not perpendicular to the top. I've cut more than a few wedge shaped pieces.

My switch stopped working soon after i got it and MM sent a replacement no charge. I hear they've fixed that problem though.

The front edge of my table is quite a bit smoother than the back. Nothing that effects cutting operations but a bit of a disappointment.

I'll tell ya though, it'll cut whatever you throw it and not even begin to slow down!

Brian :)

[Jim DeLaney]

Mark,
What you've got isn't acceptable. Since you've got pictures of all the defects, I'd forward your massage(s), above, to MM's customer service, and their President, in the form of an email. Then, if they havent contacted you within a couple days, YOU call THEM and ask them what they're gonna do about your defective product.

[glenn bradley]

I made Orion send me replacement CI extension wings for less than you mention on your table top. Even if the hand print, throat insert slop and ridges don't bother you, I would push the issue if only to send a message to the manufacturer. But, that's just me. I expect quality of a certain level at a certain price point. It makes no difference if I got it for a discount or not. That being said, you've got one beautiful machine, enjoy!

[Ken Garlock]

A bit of clarification: The new MM16 have a 4.8 hp motor and requires a 30 Amp circuit. I used 10ga for my extension cord.

Joe

Joe, I just checked my saw, and it is a 3.6 hp motor. A quick rough calculation on a 5 hp motor, assuming 80% efficient, would draw over 18 amp. So I agree that 10 ga would be the way to go.

Mark, take note.:)

[Jim Becker]

Ken, MM specifies in their manuals and technical specs a 30amp circuit for all the 4.8hp motors. This includes the J/Ps, sliding saws, combos and bandsaws MM16 and up in size with that single phase motor.

You and I have the older design MM16 with the 12" resaw and 3.6hp motor. 20amp works fine for these.

Mark, I think there is a note in a thread in the MM forum about the power cord grommet question you have...but I don't recall the specific thread. Sam can probably tell you the "fix" for that.

I agree that the plastic table insert isn't "the best"...I did have to get a replacement and even then had to tweek it a bit to get it flat, etc.

I'd also suggest you speak with them about your concerns as the company is in the best position to solve any real problems if the materially affect the function of the machine. But do keep in mind that these are "industrial" machines and not designed to look pretty, despite the fact that they usually do. Ask them to correct the things that are not right or don't work!

[Mark Rios]

Thanks to all for the sentiments. However, I'm just not sure that I want to call and complain about a couple of cosmetic items on a tool. Of the things that I listed, the only thing that really kinda bothers me is somebody else's hand print on my machine. :D But I'm just not bothered by any of those things enough to call and complain. If the table had a corner cut off of it or something like that then I'd call but not for these items.

Jim, that's exactly why I haven't called them. On a tool like this, I'd rather call on the record about a functional issue rather than a cosmetic one. Unless it was something like the paint falling off or something like that. :D Thanks.

And I think that I'll just sand down the plastic block for now and see how that works.

Thanks again.

[Tom Ruflin]

Mark,

Another problem you are going to have is (based on the pictures) the bottom door will not open all the way (180 degrees) because it will hit the on/off switch and this will make it nearly impossible to put on a 1 inch blade. I have spoke to Sam Blasco about this last month and he said they are working on solution with the manufacturer. I have not heard back from them and it's been about a month. Sam told me that the problem effects about 50 saws that were delivered. The good thing (I think) is that it is not the same switch that had all the problems. I also had the same problem with the plastic insert and used a hand plane to make it flatter. Other than those 2 problems my saw is great but given those problems I will think twice about buying another Mini Max machine.

[Howie French]

Mark,

regarding the grommet, I believe I was able to file the inside to get it to
fit around a 10 gauge cord. The black plastic plate was no good for me either, it was impossible to adjust for fit, I made my own out of plywood. It looks and works just like the plastic one, except it fits:D.
If I pull the pin and remove the wheel on the mobility kit (10 seconds), my door opens fine, I guess I am lucky.


Good Luck and enjoy your saw.

Howie

[Doug Shepard]

Your electric setup is a bit different than mine, which came with a pigtail running through the frame and strain-relief grommet so I dont think my fix for using the heavier cable is going to work for you (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=237744&postcount=10). But what about cutting some more of the yellow jacket from your cord supply and glueing a 2nd layer around your cable where it passes through the nut? Would that make it thick enough?

I also found the blade insert and opening to be other than well designed. I probably should have requested they send me another, but had doubts that a replacement would have been any better. Finally got mine MOSTLY level after a lot of tweaking.

[Mark Rios]

Mark,

Another problem you are going to have is (based on the pictures) the bottom door will not open all the way (180 degrees) because it will hit the on/off switch and this will make it nearly impossible to put on a 1 inch blade. I have spoke to Sam Blasco about this last month and he said they are working on solution with the manufacturer. I have not heard back from them and it's been about a month. Sam told me that the problem effects about 50 saws that were delivered. The good thing (I think) is that it is not the same switch that had all the problems. I also had the same problem with the plastic insert and used a hand plane to make it flatter. Other than those 2 problems my saw is great but given those problems I will think twice about buying another Mini Max machine.


Tom, maybe I"m reading your post wrong but....it seems that neither of the problems that you list nor the ones that I list are even close to being a reason for thinking twice about buying MM. Let me state clearly that I am not critisizing you for your feelings, I'm just surprised to hear (read:D ) such strong feelings for the non-functional issues that we have on our machines. A little disappointing maybe but I won't lose any sleep over them. While I'm sure that MM would send me another table if I simply asked, to me it's not worth the trouble to make the phone call, let alone going through the trouble of changing out and readjusting the table.

As far as the wheel/switch in the way of the door thing, my switch is not in the way in the least. Perhaps they moved it on the newer models.

I just went and installed a 1" blade. This is the first time that I have installed a blade on a bandsaw in almost three years since I sold my Griz G0555. My G0555 gave me a little trouble installing a wider, 3/4" blade but I don't really remember why, other than the blade entered the table from the side as opposed to the front like on this saw. But this blade still only took me about thirty seconds to get it around the wheels. I, for one, don't feel that the issues that I've found will deter me at looking at a MiniMax jointer when I have more room for a bigger machine. :D :D :D

I do have another question though......Do I align the gullet of the teeth or the pointy points with the edge of the wheel/tire?

Also, while aligning and tensioning the blade a little ( not to run it, just to get some tension on the blade) I notice that the blade hangs off of the lower wheel about 1/8" to 3/16" more than on the upper wheel?

Is this okay/normal? Or should I do something to get better alignment on the lower wheel?

Thanks very much.

[Don Bullock]

First of all, enjoy your new machine. I'm sure it will do well for its intended tasks.

I think that you should at least send the pictures you have posted here to MM. Companies need to understand that their quality control needs to be improved. Sure, as Jim said, it's an "industrial" machine, but you spent a lot of your hard earned money on their product. As you said, "Not life changing or anything like that but a little disapponting for $2400," but it's the principle that is in question here. For that kind of money the workmanship should be better.

As for the grommet, try Radio Shack. They should have something that would work.

Congratulations on your new saw.

[Tom Ruflin]

Mark,

I'll bet that the hinges on your lower door are different than the hinges on mine (that was one of the fixes that Sam said MM was looking at). Maybe I was venting alittle in my comment about purchasing another MM machine but, for $2400 I would expect to be able to change blades without a problem. These problems make me leary about the quality control on other machines. My sawstop cabinet saw was excellent right out of the box and it is a more complicated machine. I do like my MM16 and once the problem with the door and switch is fixed it will be a good machine.

With the blade positioning on the wheels I believe that the gullets should be off the edge of the wheel on 1 inch blades (especially with carbide tips). I have run both 1/2 and 1/4 inch with the whole blade on the wheel and the alignment on the top wheel matches the bottom wheel. I would talk to MM about alignment if they are diffferent (IMHO).

Good luck with your saw.

[lou sansone]

hi mark
congrats in the new saw and I appreciate your measured and reasoned approach about calling and whining about the cosmetic issues. I agree with Jim.. its a tool not a jewelery box. I am surprised someone has not recommended that you sue the company for pain and suffering ( even I can rant once and a while ). anyway
best wishes and get some sawdust on it
lou

[Mark Rios]

hi mark
congrats in the new saw and I appreciate your measured and reasoned approach about calling and whining about the cosmetic issues. I agree with Jim.. its a tool not a jewelery box. I am surprised someone has not recommended that you sue the company for pain and suffering ( even I can rant once and a while ). anyway
best wishes and get some sawdust on it
lou


Thanks Lou, but I DO have a lawsuit pending against MM for this. I just didn't want to call them and forewarn them.





Just kidding.:D ;) :rolleyes: