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Keith Outten
11-15-2003, 10:42 AM
This is a small box plan I got from Epilog, it makes a very nice box and is completely made by the laser. All of the finger joints are vector cut so it is important that your material be 0.250" thick so the joints fit nicely. You can use 1/4" acrylic even though the thickness is just under 1/4" the joints will still fit properly.

Click Here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/corel/smallbox_all.cdr) to save the small box Corel Draw file...WARNING this is a 3.5 meg file so download time may be very long if you are not using a broadband service.

I will add the drawing for the long box later.

Tom Sweeney
11-15-2003, 9:53 PM
coupla questions;

Your laser can actually cut the box joints in 1/4" material? I thought it didn't go that deep.

sort of the same question on the picture frame below - would you cut that whole thing out - like scroll sawing - or would it be a design burned into the wood?

I think you said that Alder is a good wood for laser engraving - In your opinion would that be a good wood to use, appearance wise, as a lid on an Oak box. It would probably be white oak & then I would stain the whole thing with some kind of golden oak stain -as per a request. Secondarily would the white Oak be OK for the engraving - it would be a fairly intricate engraving - a wedding invitation.

Inquiring minds want to know.

It all looks great BTW keep em coming.

Kevin Gerstenecker
11-15-2003, 11:58 PM
It never ceases to amaze me the work that can be accomplished with the Laser. Those boxes are outstanding, to say the least. If I had one of those Lasers, I would NEVER come out of the shop. And some of you don't think I sleep NOW...................you would be correct if I had THAT toy in my arsenal. Great work Keith..............I never grow tired of seeing the beautiful work you produce with your laser. Keep the pics coming..............they are the BEST! :)

Keith Outten
11-16-2003, 4:22 AM
Tom,

Lasers will definately cut some materials like wood and acrylic, the depth is relative to the power supply of the machine. My 35 watt system will cut most wood species and acrylic from 1/4" to 5/16" thick. The boxes are 1/4" thick and the picture frame I vector cut from 5/16" walnut. It is also possible to cut material twice and extend the depth of cut.

The boxes in the picture are a really easy project since the laser does all the work. All I have to do is glue them together so I normally make a production run when I make them. The laser will cut and engrave them as fast as I can glue and clamp using rubber bands or the bands that women use to tie their hair. I can make about 30 boxes in an evening if I have the stock prepared in advance. The clear acrylic is so cheap I have given away lots of the large boxes as promotional items.

How well a particular wood species engraves is a function of the resin content and density of the wood. Alder, walnut, cherry, poplar, purpleheart, mahogany, maple and hickory all have lots of resin and engrave really nice. Although oak has a suitable resin content it tends to have soft spots and a rough grain so it is not a species that engraves particularly well. Pine will engrave but it will not turn brown so there is little or no contrast, it just leaves a hole but it can be filled with stain, paint or some other type of contrasting material.

Inlay work is possible as well, by controlling the depth of cut or burn you can engrave the negative part like a box lid, then cut a veneer using the same drawing and it will fit like a glove. This technique works also with acrylic materials so you could inlay a gold plastic in walnut. I often use different thicknesses of acrylic for inlay projects like signs to get a nice 3D look.

I'm not sure about using alder with oak as I have never used a stain on alder. I normally use alder for plaques and use a clear laquer finish so that I have maximum contrast.

I just finished a wedding invitation, engraved on black marble and I included a picture of the couple. If I don't have a picture I often engrave a mirror removing the silver from the back side and either paint or use matte board to provide color contrast. Mirrors are a great material for wedding invitations, its cheap and looks very expensive.

Birth announcements and birth certificates look great on wood, you can engrave the baby's footprints and they will look 3D for a really nice effect. You can also engrave footprints on a wooden box. I like to engrave a wooden plaque, cut out various patterns in the wood and place a mirror on the back side. The mirror can also be engraved and the project is absolutely unique.

I hope this answers your questions and that I have given you some additional food for thought. Combining different materials and techniques provides an endless resource for projects. It seems that almost anything is possible if you can learn to use Corel Draw, the shop side of projects are a piece of cake. Please don't tell anyone that I'm having fun, they won't want to pay me and my laser isn't paid for yet :)



coupla questions;

Your laser can actually cut the box joints in 1/4" material? I thought it didn't go that deep.

sort of the same question on the picture frame below - would you cut that whole thing out - like scroll sawing - or would it be a design burned into the wood?

I think you said that Alder is a good wood for laser engraving - In your opinion would that be a good wood to use, appearance wise, as a lid on an Oak box. It would probably be white oak & then I would stain the whole thing with some kind of golden oak stain -as per a request. Secondarily would the white Oak be OK for the engraving - it would be a fairly intricate engraving - a wedding invitation.

Inquiring minds want to know.

It all looks great BTW keep em coming.

Ron Smith ... Richmond, VA
11-17-2003, 11:47 AM
This is a small box plan I got from Epilog, it makes a very nice box and is completely made by the laser... I will add the drawing for the long box later.

Keith,
These look like they'd make nice sentimental presents for someone to store small items in. You say you do these as a production run ... how much do you charge for something like this? You have a couple of photos from me and I have a couple more that I'd like to see done on a small box like this. Please let me know and I'll order some.

Thanks,
Ron

Aaron Koehl
11-17-2003, 1:50 PM
Keith,
These look like they'd make nice sentimental presents for someone to store small items in. You say you do these as a production run ... how much do you charge for something like this? You have a couple of photos from me and I have a couple more that I'd like to see done on a small box like this. Please let me know and I'll order some.

Thanks,
Ron

The pictures don't really do the box as much justice either. Kathy got one of the walnut boxes engraved with her name and coated with lacquer-- it's beautiful.

As a matter of fact, she uses it daily to put her jewelry in, carrying it to and from home!

_Aaron_

SteveKrim
11-17-2003, 4:06 PM
Hi Keith and all...

I picked up some acrylic today at lunch, if my kids cooperate, I might be able to create a couple boxes tonight! Where do you get your .25 wood? I was thinking about edge gluing some cherry and then re-sawing and planing to .25...

Every day I learn more and more about Corel - that is the absolute key!!! I figured out how to make the outline red to vector cut and leave the design raster, I might be dangerous one day!

Looking forward to the large box - or I might try and resize the small one...

One thought I had was to put my Daughters picture in the oval - I just need to figure out how to get her image into that size...

Thanks again!

Steve

Abdul Baseer Hai
03-05-2005, 11:10 PM
Keith

I am new to this forum and was going through the many interesting posts when I came upon your box. I tried it right away with 1/4 in. plexi and it came out perfect. I only have one question. How do you fix the lid or does it stay loose on the top.
Please keep posting new designs for novices like me.
Baseer Hai

Keith Outten
03-06-2005, 7:26 AM
Abdul,

You can use a set of hinges or simply cut a piece of acrylic that is just smaller than the inside of the box and glue it to the bottom of the lid. This will align the top when it is installed. On clear or translucent acrylic I prefer not to use hinges because they are visible. I believe that Epilog has a music box on their web site now that has the hinges built into the box sides. Check Epilog's Sample Club web pages for the box plans and several others that are very nice projects.

Pete Simmons
03-06-2005, 7:44 AM
Where do you get 0.25 clear acrylic cheap??

Jeff DeVore
03-06-2005, 9:44 AM
Try http://www.freckleface.com/plastic.html

Pete Simmons
03-07-2005, 11:35 AM
What do you use for glue. Would Thin CA work?

Jerry Allen
03-07-2005, 6:17 PM
Pete, I use CA, thick. Just one small drop in each cavity.

Kieth, I didn't see the smaller design here, and re-designed it from the longbox. I wanted to be able to utilize a 3.5"x24" board. I re-designed all the graphics from scratch and this was my first product. I get good response but a lot of complaints about the price.
I've been charging about $19. The Store gets $27. All sides are pretty much full of graphics and there is a custom logo on the top for a bakery. The engraving time alone is over thirty minutes plus about a 6.5 minute average cut time. I'm not even considering wood preparation and finish. When considering all my labor, materials and other expenses, $20 isn't even reasonable. I was just wondering how you price these. And if I need to make a hundred at a time in order to make it work. I have decided to try making them blank and charge for the level of engraving on the sides and top. Compared to pens where I charge $5 for one line, the extent of engraver time, assembly and finish on these hardly seems worth it.

I tried reducing the amount of time by using less graphics (below in the longer version) but it still takes at least 20+minutes for the engraving alone.

Keith Outten
03-07-2005, 7:31 PM
Jerry,

You did a really nice job with the box plan, very impressive designs.

I make the acrylic boxes and give them away to large sign customers now, since they don't require any finishing. I wouldn't sell them for $20.00, better to give them away to a customer that you did a $20k job for :)

Another tact would be to take the boxes to a jewelry store and charge $79.95 for them, in the right store they would bring that kind of price. On the other hand you can engrave glass signs which bring $450.00 each for fifteen minutes of engraving time (text only) and a half hour to install.

Tomorrow morning I have to ship my laser tube back to Epilog to exchange it for a rebuilt tube. It will cost me at least $1,250.00 for the tube and it is very hard to pay to repair an expensive engraver unless the products you make are profitable. Tell the folks that think the price is too high that tomorrow the boxes will be $80.00 :)

Jerry Allen
03-07-2005, 7:49 PM
Thanks for the advice, Kieth.
I'll keep the promo concept in mind.
I really prefer to engrave my woodturnings which thus far I have not gotten any flack about. Some folks just think the boxes are small and should therefore be cheap regardless of the time involved.
I've been doing crystal flutes and champagne bottles for weddings which is probably the most profitable thing I've done.
The glass sign idea is tempting. I have not been pleased however with the laser's glass etching quality. Since I was blasting first, I expected to get the same results from the laser due to my ingnorance of the method. It certainly is easier and I still use the laser to cut the mask which is a timesaver over photo developing. When customers see the difference between blasted and laser engraved, they usually go for the blasted version even though I charge twice as much.
What kind of glass signs are you referring to? Doors? Backlit? Got any photos?

Glenn Palhof
03-07-2005, 8:10 PM
Jerry,

Very nice work. When you purchased your machine did the sales people give you any indication on square foot value? Sometimes these small projects cost you more in the long run. You need to see the bigger picture and work toward the higher end market. Not everyone has this kind of equipment so you need make potential customers appreciate the preperation that goes into each custom piece. Don't become disappointed when someone thinks your project is small and should be cheap. Show them why the should purchase your product at a value related to your laser. As you can see, repair is going to be expensive. My machine is a 4 ft. x 8 ft.. We dread the moment of failure and we are electromachanical and electronic background.
Charge according to the demographics in your area.

Glenn

Keith Outten
03-07-2005, 10:01 PM
Jerry,

As hard as I try I am not a professional photographer and glass is next to impossible to photograph but here is one of the glass signs I have done. These are in an entrance foyer, again the photo doesn't do the setting justice but the customer has been thrilled with the results. Behind me in the photo are three floor to ceiling glass walls so the light was bad from all angles and you can see multiple relections in each piece of glass.

The signs are 10" by 24" bevel glass with 1/2" holes and brass standoff mounts. The glass and mounts should be available from any glass shop.

The look is simply elegant.

Jerry Allen
03-08-2005, 11:46 AM
Thanks for the tips Glenn. No, they pretty much just did the sale without having to give me any justification, and I didn't ask.

Kieth, those are really nice! So they are laser cut, say .005 deep? .25 thick? I assume you custom order the sign with the bevel, holes, etc., or do you stock certain sizes? What would the ballpark be on one of those, unmounted?

drew winners
10-18-2007, 6:47 AM
Of getting this for a V10 of corel?

Todd Schwartz
10-18-2007, 12:09 PM
Have made dozens of the Epilogue "Music Box" design as Keith shows in the original post - used 1/4" baltic birch. But found that it really was closer to .240 than .250. Gave me a little too loose of joints. The easy fix is to select all and reduce by about 1 or 2 %. Using the dimensions tool to measure got a very good fit.

Same works for the .200" acrylic I had left over.

Todd

Craig Hogarth
10-18-2007, 1:34 PM
Of getting this for a V10 of corel?
Here's one in v.9

Dave Fifield
10-18-2007, 4:09 PM
Have made dozens of the Epilogue "Music Box" design as Keith shows in the original post - used 1/4" baltic birch. But found that it really was closer to .240 than .250. Gave me a little too loose of joints. The easy fix is to select all and reduce by about 1 or 2 %. Using the dimensions tool to measure got a very good fit.

Same works for the .200" acrylic I had left over.

Todd

Hey Todd, what settings (speed/power/freq) do you use for cutting 1/4" baltic birch ply? I haven't found a setting that will vector cut it in one clean cut yet......

drew winners
10-18-2007, 4:13 PM
That will be a lot of fun to play with when I get to work tomorrow.

BTW That is really nice work!

Todd Schwartz
10-18-2007, 9:51 PM
Dave,

After much experimentation - here are my setting for a 50 watt VersaLaser 300 with the 2" lens for cutting 1/4" baltic birch.

Power 65, speed .8, PPI 150. This gives me a good cut, no charring, although I have gone down as low as 40% power successfully, all depends on the wood. Using air assist. Done in one pass.

I assume I could increase power and increase speed for a faster cut, but this works for me.

Todd

James Wright
02-10-2008, 3:28 PM
This is a small box plan I got from Epilog, it makes a very nice box and is completely made by the laser. All of the finger joints are vector cut so it is important that your material be 0.250" thick so the joints fit nicely. You can use 1/4" acrylic even though the thickness is just under 1/4" the joints will still fit properly.

Click Here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/corel/smallbox_all.cdr) to save the small box Corel Draw file...WARNING this is a 3.5 meg file so download time may be very long if you are not using a broadband service.

I will add the drawing for the long box later.
Mr. Outten,
I don’t know if you look at these old threads….if you do…. how did you elongate the box pattern … you show a longer version of the box in thumbnail picture of an Acrylic box that you posted in 2003…I would like to make different size boxes…but can’t figure out how to make them longer and still keep my joints fitting together like the should….
James Wright
Haventouch Enterprises Inc.

Steven Wallace
02-10-2008, 6:56 PM
I was just wondering how the lids are attached to the boxes or do you laser etch a rabbit that fits into the void of the box. Have you thought of lining the boxes with a velvet to give the engraving a little depth, while adding a nice touch to the interior of the box? I am only talking about the velvet having an impact on the acrylic boxes. Although depending on the use, lining the wooden box would be nice too. All in all, Great work and I like that you enclosed the pictures. Something to drool over and have my wife and partner tell me that we need to start making those too. Great! Just what I needed, another project. I thought everything in our house had been engraved already.

James Wright
02-10-2008, 7:46 PM
I don't know if you were adddressing this question to me or Mr. Outten....but anyway...it is one of the first applications I have seen where a square peg fits in a round hole....it is a great box pattern...I've made 1/8 inch that are tiny and the 1/4 inch that is the pattern....

Ray Mighells
02-10-2008, 8:04 PM
Here's a file of a box that I changed the top a little and added a hinge pivot on the ends. I've used seude flocking to line the insides of my wood boxes, but haven't tried it on the acrylic.

Keith Outten
02-11-2008, 12:01 AM
Mr. Outten,
I don’t know if you look at these old threads….if you do…. how did you elongate the box pattern … you show a longer version of the box in thumbnail picture of an Acrylic box that you posted in 2003…I would like to make different size boxes…but can’t figure out how to make them longer and still keep my joints fitting together like the should….
James Wright
Haventouch Enterprises Inc.

James,

Both the long box and the small box are separate drawings/projects. You can scale either project if you want to use thicker or thinner material but you have to add or subtract finger joints to make changes to the box dimensions. This is a bit easier to do with a CAD program than with Corel Draw but it can be done with either program.

I also posted a third box plan that had a hinged top, it was basically a hole cut into the right and left side pieces and the top had tabs that extended and were inserted in the side holes.

All three of these box plans came from my Epilog salesman, he gave me a CD full of projects when I purchased my laser engraver. Most of the files on the CD were stuff he used to demonstrate Epilog engravers at woodworking shows. I have to admit his CD was a real big help when we were just getting started and some of the projects, particularly the vector stuff like the boxes have come in handy over the last five years.

If I was selling laser engravers I would put together a killer CD loaded with great projects ready to go and provide a speed and power settings table for the various power supplies of the models I sold. This would be a huge help to new owners and even give them some projects they could start selling right away. Epilog does provide a speed and power setting table in their manual, Xenetech provides absolutely nothing...you are on your own to start from scratch and they don't even provide a printed manual.

Possibly we can put together a CD full of the best projects from our Engraving Forum that we can share with everyone. Sounds like a great project to me :)

.

Bruce Dorworth
12-10-2013, 9:56 PM
I know this is an old thread, but does anyone have the file for the larger flip top box. I tried stretching the smaller box and made a mess.

Thanks for the file Keith

Bruce

Keith Outten
12-11-2013, 10:20 AM
Bruce,

It's been a long time since I made any of these boxes and I can't remember if I had the long flip top box drawing but I will look ASAP and let you know.
I now have an 80 watt Trotec, I expect it will cut and engrave these boxes real quick so I may just do another group of 50 boxes to see how fast I can make them now. Another option that I have today is the ability to vector cut 1/4" thick Corian. Corian boxes would be slow to cut but they would be incredible because Corian engraves really well.
.

Keith Outten
12-13-2013, 1:48 PM
Bruce,

I checked my files and there isn't a drawing for the long flip top box. You'll have to modify the existing drawing.
.

Bruce Dorworth
12-13-2013, 3:30 PM
Ok Thanks Keith, I just didn't want to reinvent the wheel if I didn't have to..

Bruce