Thoughts on the Pinnacle chuck at Woodcraft for $84.99???

[Steve LaFara]

Just got the latest Woodcraft flyer and they have the Pinnacle chuck on sale for $84.99 and I've been thinking about getting a new chuck. Anyone have this or know of any reason to not buy it" Other option is the Oneway Talon for around $185. Is it that much better???

This is for a very small Sherline lathe but would be used when I upgrade to a Jet mini in the future. Currently I have a 3 & 4 jaw chuck but they both have very limited depth on the jaws and they are primarily designed for working with metal.

[Jim Ketron]

I think you would come out better saving an extra $100 and getting the Talon. IMO a Keyed Chuck is much better and you can tighten them with one hand V/S the tommy bars!
Another Chuck you might want to consider would be the Nova G3 chuck!

[Don Fuss]

I'm interested in this as well. I happen to be a monetary challenged woodturner who does not own a chuck. I could get by with the hassle of tommy bars if the chuck is halfway decent. I don't want to buy it and have it send my pieces across the shop, however. That's my job and I do it just fine on my own.

[Bob Hallowell]

I have the $50 grizzly with tommy bars. I would like a nicer one but it's all I have and it has worked fine for me.

Bob

[Christopher K. Hartley]

I'm with Bob! I have the $50 Griz as well and Tommy Bars are not an issue. If your budget "is what it is" and you weigh a chuck with Tommy Bars against no chuck at all...well it's a no brainer!:D The Pinnacle is probably a bit better chuck than the Griz so if you have the jingle then go for it! I'll tell you now, you won't be sorry you got a chuck, even a cheap one.:)
NOTE: "This thought process does not apply to all spinny things."

[Corey Hallagan]

If you have the scratch I would definitely go with the Talon. They have a great reputation. If not the Pinnacle should work just fine for you. Obviously the keyed one handed chucks are easier to operate as so many recommend them but I have a Nova Midi and the Grizzly chucks and they work just fine as well with the tommy bars. The Pinnacle I would expect would be very similar to the Nova Midi and it is a very smooth operating chuck.

Corey

[Charles McKinley]

I would go for it. or the Griz if you need a chuck. There are a couple of tricks that others showed me when working with the tommy bars at a class I took. The other thing is Woodcraft has a very liberal one year return policy. I do not recommend abusing this policy but if the chuck just doesn't work out for you you can take it back.

[Greg Heppeard]

I would go for it. or the Griz if you need a chuck. There are a couple of tricks that others showed me when working with the tommy bars at a class I took. The other thing is Woodcraft has a very liberal one year return policy. I do not recommend abusing this policy but if the chuck just doesn't work out for you you can take it back.

Woodcraft recently changed their return policy to 90 days. I own a Stronghold and love it. I think the Pinnacle is a much lesser quality chuck. Nova actually makes a smaller chuck that is pretty good also, not sure of the price.

[Gordon Seto]

I would go for it. or the Griz if you need a chuck. There are a couple of tricks that others showed me when working with the tommy bars at a class I took. The other thing is Woodcraft has a very liberal one year return policy. I do not recommend abusing this policy but if the chuck just doesn't work out for you you can take it back. That one year policy has been changed to something like 3 months now.

Some production turners like to use tommy bars chucks. They are faster than keyed chucks. In Mike Mahoney's bowl coring DVD, one of the chucks he used was a big tommy bars operated Vicmarc.

Oneway makes good chucks. But Nova chucks make more sense. When you add another smaller or larger chuck, you don't have to purchase all the jaws that you already own. That would save you a lot of money. The SN2 is an excellent chuck. It has huge performance improvement over the original Supernova.

Oneway has 3 chucks, and none of their jaws is interchangable. It only make sense to their pocket book. They are doing much better than most of us financially.

Gordon

[John Hart]

This chuck will prove to be a useful tool. I too, have the Griz which is the same configuration. Tommy bars are a one handed deal once you get the feel of them....but my next chuck is the Talon. If you get the Pinnacle chuck...remember to cut the profile in your tenon in the following configuration:
53655

I don't know the proper terminology for the steps in the tenon, so bear with me. The bevel should match the bevel on the jaws for proper grip and allow the end of the jaws to come in intimate contact with the landing for support. The support step should be in intimate contact with the walls of the jaws. This makes making the bevel match the jaws a crucial item. I've found that if the support is left out, or if it is too short, the tenon will break or your piece will pop out under stress. But don't bottom it out in the chuck. That will also cause the piece to pop out. When I make my tenons this way, I have great success even when hollowing fairly large hollow forms.

When I first started cutting this tenon configuration, it took a little while because I was paying close attention to get it perfect...but now that I have the hang of it, it only takes a couple minutes and I don't have to measure or anything.

[Dale Gregory]

Woodcraft still has the Nova Precision Midi on sale still through Sunday for $69. I have a Rikon Midi Lathe and you can use the indexing feature to hold the chuck while using only 1 of the tommy bars to tighten it. That frees your right hand to hold the bowl or piece your working on. It's like having a keyed chuck. On the Jet Mini you would still use both bars. Just another option and $20 cheaper. The Pinnacle did come with a plastic case if I remember correctly. I thought about the Grizzly chuck but decided on the Nova in case I add more jaws down the road. Good luck!

[Ron Raymond]

I just bought the Pinnacle chuck to go with my new Rikon that Santa brought...haven't even unpacked it yet, but here's something else to consider. I went in to WC with the intent to buy the Nova that's on sale for a few dollars less than the Pinnacle. However, the accessories for the Pinnacle are what changed my mind...that and the recommendation from the fellow that taught the lathe basics class I took. Additional Nova jaws, such as pin and Cole, are $55 to $75 each. I got the #1 pin jaws for the Pinnacle for $20 and the large flat jaws for $25. The only thing that made the decision tough was the large flat jaws only hold up to 7-1/4" diameter, but that should be enough to keep me interested for quite a while.

[Mark Pruitt]

I have mixed feelings about this. My first instinct says "buy once," but I also know that having more than one chuck in one's arsenal can be a good thing. So if $$ is an issue and you can get a decent functional chuck for well under a buck, and the alternative is nothing at all, then why not go for it. Some day you'll have enough saved to upgrade to a Talon, and when you do you'll have options as to which chuck to use for a particular job.

[Andrew Harkin]

You might want to check out the Barracuda 2 as well for something in the middle of the road. For $170 or so, you get a nice chuck and several sets of jaws. Depending on how you like to do certain things, it may be all the jaws you ever need. I have one and like it, I've done up to 15" or so bowls in it with no problems, or at least none because of the chuck! :)

[Mike Vickery]

http://www.woodchipshome.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=WC&Category_Code=CHU
You emay want to check out Charles he has the best prices on Nova chucks and the percision Midi or the G3 are in abou thte same price range.

[Lee DeRaud]

You might want to check out the Barracuda 2 as well for something in the middle of the road. For $170 or so, you get a nice chuck and several sets of jaws. Depending on how you like to do certain things, it may be all the jaws you ever need. I have one and like it, I've done up to 15" or so bowls in it with no problems, or at least none because of the chuck! :)Second that. The jaws are all interchangeable with the other chucks in PSI's line...which I think is the same as the Pinnacle, at least as near as I can tell from the picture.

[Jim Becker]

Keep in mind that OneWay's jaws are sized for the specific chuck and that could be important in some circumstances. It's not just about boosting the bottom line. And their jaws are often considered the best for holding due to the design. The way I'm handling avoiding "duplicate" jaws is by using the Talon for everything up to its capacities (with the spigot, #2 and #3 jaws) and buying a larger chuck with just the bigger jaws for large pieces. I haven't done the latter yet, however...'haven't felt the need.

Relative to the original question, a "tommy bar" chuck certainly is a usable and cost effective solution. They are, however, more difficult to work with in some circumstances when you need to support the workpiece with one hand, although you can sometimes fudge that by positioning the bard such that you can squeeze them...assuming moving them towards each other tightens the jaws. I started out with the Grizzly "tommy bar" chuck...or maybe it was the same thing from PSI...I don't remember. It worked. But honestly, I do like the keyed chuck I now have used for quite a few years (Talon) simply because I find it easier and faster to use in all situations where I use it.

[Bob Hamilton]

Gordon: Where did you get this piece of misinformation? "Oneway has 3 chucks, and none of their jaws is interchangable." The jaws are certainly interchangeable between the Oneway basic and Talon chucks. It is only the Stronghold that uses different jaws because it is intended to hold much bigger and heavier pieces of wood so uses a beefier mounting between the jaws and base slides.

I personally don't understand why there is so much negative comment about tommy bar chucks. I have one tommy bar chuck and two key operated chucks. I don't find the tommy bar chuck any less convenient to use and actually feel I have more feedback as to how much pressure I am exerting on the wood when using it. If I am chucking on a recess as opposed to a tenon I prefer the tommy bar chuck because I am less likely to split out the wood around the recess. A pair of pliers has two handles but most people seem to be able to operate them with one hand. :) Tightening a tommy bar chuck is the same.

Take care
Bob

[Jim Ketron]

Bob,
I guess there is nothing wrong with using a chuck that has Tommy Bars, but it is much more difficult to chuck up a long or heavy piece using two hands on the bars and try to keep the wood in the jaws to tighten it up. Smaller pieces would be no problem it's the larger pieces of wood that presents a problem. I know when I chuck up a 40 + pound piece of wood even with a keyed chuck can be difficult to do, but it also frees up one hand to hold the wood. Maybe some longer Tommy Bars might work better on a larger lathe so you can use the ways to hold one of the bars? But I guess that would depend on how big the tenon is and where the holes to tighten up the chuck are.
Jim

[Steve LaFara]

The Tommy bars are not a big concern to me as I've been using them for years with the chucks that came with the Sherline lathe. I'm more concerned about holding power as what I have do a lousy job with wood. Being designind for metal, the contact area of each jaw is a single point, unlike the wood chucks that surround the piece.

Are most of the jaws designed like the Pinnacle where you have to taper the tenon to get a good fit??? I'm going to try to go by Woodcraft tomorrow and look at all of the chucks they have on hand and see if I can make heads or tails out of them. Thanks for the info so far! I am trying to keep the cost down around a $100 so the Talon is probably out for now.

[Rich Stewart]

I guess I'll jump in here too. I have the chucks from PSI that were 49 bucks each. I bought 3 of them and put a different set of jaws on each one so all i have to do is unscrew one chuck and put another on instead of fooling around with all them little allen screws any time I need to switch over. So, for the price of ONE of the others, I got THREE. They all work great. Tommy bars are not as bad as everyone seems to make them out to be. The cole jaws I have on one of them cost 25 bucks. I think I got mine for free when they had a sale on the chucks.

Just checked PSI website and it seems they have dicontinued the chucks that I got. I am fairly certain they are the same as the griz 50 buck jobs.

Rich

[Gordon Seto]

Where did you get this piece of misinformation? "Oneway has 3 chucks, and none of their jaws is interchangable." The jaws are certainly interchangeable between the Oneway basic and Talon chucks. It is only the Stronghold that uses different jaws because it is intended to hold much bigger and heavier pieces of wood so uses a beefier mounting between the jaws and base slides.


Bob,
I stand corrected. Obviously I don't own their chuck.

I think Nova is more consumer oriented in this respect. Their design allows all their chucks (Midi, G3, SN2 and Titan) share the same jaws platform. The only exception is their 5" Titan Power Grip Jaw, which uses 3 screws on each jaw slide, can only be used on the Titan Chuck. Titan uses an additional screw for strength but still backward compitable with all the existing jaws.

All these chucks are designed for turning wood. I believe steel is much stronger than the wood they are holding. The failure is always in the wood. I admitted that I am new to this craft; but I have never heard of any jaws falling off from the chuck even on those cheap imports.

I believe a properly made shoulder sitting against the jaw is the most important part in chucking.

When we are turning projects with multiple parts, having an extra chuck handy is always a convenience.

Nova has done a decent job on improving their products. The original Supernova chuck key is a hassle to use. It also had a open back that needed more frequent cleaning. The new ball end chuck wrench on the SN2 is a big improvement. They are closed back now.

I do not recall hearing anything less than happy from Oneway chucks owners. I decide to use various chucks from Nova based on my pocket book and convenience.

Gordon

[Steve LaFara]

Well, I went to Woodcraft today to look at the Pinnacle and guess what..................not in stock! http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowupset.gif Talked to the guys and found that if I bought the Pinnacle, it would end up being dedicated to my Sherline as it's 3/4-16 threads and the Jet Midi that I plan on getting is 1-18. You can not change the inserts like you can on the Novas so I'm back to square one.

They have the Nova G3 with the 3/4-16 insert for $149 and I can change the insert down the road when I get a real lathe. It comes with 50mm jaws and can use almost all of the other Nova accessories, if I were to rob a bank or something. http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I'm assuming that the Grizzly is the same as the Pinnacle where it will be dedicated to one spindle size, so any thoughts about my next step??? Didn't really feel like spending $150 for a chuck rught now, but not sure that I have a better solution.

[Mark Pruitt]

If this (http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1194) is the Grizzly chuck you have in mind, it takes inserts for different threadings.

[Lee DeRaud]

If this (http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1194) is the Grizzly chuck you have in mind, it takes inserts for different threadings.That's a 3-jaw chuck. Both of the regular 4-jaw chucks ($42 tommy-bar and $84 keyed) are spindle-specific:
http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2006/Main/111
(There's also a 4-jaw on that page that takes inserts, but it's not a scroll chuck: the jaws move independently.)

[Lee DeRaud]

I'm assuming that the Grizzly is the same as the Pinnacle where it will be dedicated to one spindle size, so any thoughts about my next step??? Didn't really feel like spending $150 for a chuck rught now, but not sure that I have a better solution.Check Penn State Industries: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/cmg3c.html.
It's a $85 tommy-bar chuck that looks like a clone of the Pinnacle (or vice versa). The jaws are interchangeable with the Barracuda2 keyed chuck.

[Mark Pruitt]

...any thoughts about my next step??? Didn't really feel like spending $150 for a chuck rught now, but not sure that I have a better solution.
I just came across this thread. (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=48694) This is a deal that is definitely worth looking at, even if you have to do some "creative budgeting" to make the purchase.

[Ron Raymond]

Well, I went to Woodcraft today to look at the Pinnacle and guess what..................not in stock! http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowupset.gif Talked to the guys and found that if I bought the Pinnacle, it would end up being dedicated to my Sherline as it's 3/4-16 threads and the Jet Midi that I plan on getting is 1-18. You can not change the inserts like you can on the Novas so I'm back to square one.

Are you sure about that Steve? I'm sitting here looking at my Pinnacle and the $4.99 1"x8tpi threaded insert to go with it, and I don't see any reason why the insert couldn't be changed...it even has flats on the exposed flange for gripping with a crescent wrench.

The Pinnacle box prominantly says "Requires Threaded Insert" and the insert package shows 3 available sizes...3/4"x16, 1"x8, and 1-1/4"x8 tpi. The plastic carrying case for the chuck and accessories even has an empty space for the insert.

The WC website description of the chuck includes "Threaded Inserts are available for those who want to use the same chuck on lathes with different thread patterns." And by the way, the price just dropped another $5.

But then again, I'm such a newbie...maybe I'm missing something?

[Steve LaFara]

No, you are correct. The guys at Woodcraft do not know what they are talking about. It's on the inside front cover of the new catalog. List of thread adapters right there for $4.99 ea..

Guess I will have to wait for them to get one in to look it over. Thanks!

[George Tokarev]

And their jaws are often considered the best for holding due to the design. The way I'm handling avoiding "duplicate" jaws is by using the Talon for everything up to its capacities (with the spigot, #2 and #3 jaws) and buying a larger chuck with just the bigger jaws for large pieces. I haven't done the latter yet, however...'haven't felt the need.

Relative to the original question, a "tommy bar" chuck certainly is a usable and cost effective solution. They are, however, more difficult to work with in some circumstances when you need to support the workpiece with one hand, although you can sometimes fudge that by positioning the bard such that you can squeeze them...assuming moving them towards each other tightens the jaws.

The Oneway people have been trying to convince us to squash our tenons for a while. Greater holding power is a myth. Better a good shoulder from a mechanical standpoint than a long tenon. Makes a broad face on the jaws and a natural wedge to snug to the shoulder a better hold against the forces encountered in turning.

Which is one reason why Tommy bars, or in the case of my old NOVAs, bar and pin spanner are just fine for moving the jaws of the chuck. You don't have to reef on them, just snug. And of course you can squeeze to spread or squeeze to tighten, your choice. Plus use your spindle lock, which isn't a bad idea, because if your chuck is a tad loose at the start, it will wind itself into a semi-stuck configuration on the spindle. I'm betting that most advocates of teflon washers could do without if they snugged with the spindle locked.

By all means use the third hand to help when mounting to the chuck, assuming you don't gravity mount it first while it sits on the ways. The third hand is the one that carries the point that's sticking you in the elbow. Not only can it be used for support, it provides an additional benefit in centering because it can be placed in the old center hole. Then it becomes a clamp to snug the mount against the shoulder to be snugged by whatever turns the scroll.

I recommend using the tail as a clamp if you're using outside grip, because the symmetrical wedging of the serrations will push equally away as toward the shoulder as they bite in. No need to start with a gap that can work loose.